CW developing "The Avenger" - old DC pulp series

[chamber-music]

Being a pulp fan....I have read all of the Richard Henry Benson THE AVENGER stories years ago and am a fan of them. I am not too keen on the updating and changing idea. Yes. the changing a an old character's gender has worked (the recent Starbuck and Boomer change on the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA as example)....but I don't see a reason for it here.

For those who don't know anything about the original stories....Benson's family is killed, the shock paralyzes the muscles in his face (he is then able to mold his face like clay into the image of people he needs to imitate) and then he hunts down their killers and afterwards vows to "avenge" the wrongs done to others. For a series of pulp novels set in the American 1930's, it had several ahead of it's time characterizations in it's supporting cast. He gathered together a group of people to help him in his task. Among them was a young woman who was an expert martial artist and an African American married couple who were Tuskegee graduates (who used the common place racial profiling of the day, that blacks weren't important) to gather info and infiltrate places unseen/unnoticed by the white bad guys.

Having a show set in the 30's with a kickass martial artist woman and black couple tricking the blinder wearing racist whites would be unique....setting it in todays world is just the generic movie of the week.

Hearing all that sounds really interesting while this CW adaptations changes just sounds very generic

 

[The Question]

2: Because WB is not that stupid. I know it's the cool thing to bash WB but if we could see how stupid this is don't you think WB can?

Of course not. We're talking about the people who commissioned and produced Charmed, a show that was hinged almost entirely on riding the coattails of things that were popular at the time. They also came out with The Vampire Diaries and Beauty and the Beast around the time Twilight and other such paranormal romance stories were most popular, they're doing the show Reign about medieval Scotland in the middle of the Game of Thrones hype, and on the night of the premier of Agents of SHIELD they announced they were doing their own show about non-super powered government officials in the DC universe. This is kind of something they're known for.

I just get tired of the idea that if a comic movie or tv show is coming from WB or Fox it is automatically bad.
Marvel could announce a Squirrel Girl TV show starring Lindsey Lohan and written and directed by Uwe Boll and people would be like "I'd watch it."
WB could announce a live action JL tv show and people would be like "See they don't trust their other heroes without Batmand and Superman."

Yeah, no, that's not what happening here. I'm not ragging on WB because I have a bias, I'm ragging on WB because they're doing what they're doing very poorly.

 

[roach]

Of course not. We're talking about the people who commissioned and produced Charmed, a show that was hinged almost entirely on riding the coattails of things that were popular at the time. They also came out with The Vampire Diaries and Beauty and the Beast around the time Twilight and other such paranormal romance stories were most popular, they're doing the show Reign about medieval Scotland in the middle of the Game of Thrones hype, and on the night of the premier of Agents of SHIELD they announced they were doing their own show about non-super powered government officials in the DC universe. This is kind of something they're known for.



Yeah, no, that's not what happening here. I'm not ragging on WB because I have a bias, I'm ragging on WB because they're doing what they're doing very poorly.

if you look at it that way sure. But since WB has always had a presence on TV why isn't AOS looked at as copying what WB is doing?
Charmed was originally created to be a companion show to Buffy..the other supernatural show they had on at the time. Vampire Diaries was based on a book series. Im not sure what a 'historical' drama about Mary, Queen of the scots has to do with Game of Thrones.
I look at Beauty and the Beast as a remake of a TV show that had the original paranormal romance before Twilight was even a thing.
Yeah a TV show about the Gotham Police Department and how Gordon became commissioner is completely like Agents of Shield.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Being a pulp fan....I have read all of the Richard Henry Benson THE AVENGER stories years ago and am a fan of them. I am not too keen on the updating and changing idea. Yes. the changing a an old character's gender has worked (the recent Starbuck and Boomer change on the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA as example)....but I don't see a reason for it here.

For those who don't know anything about the original stories....Benson's family is killed, the shock paralyzes the muscles in his face (he is then able to mold his face like clay into the image of people he needs to imitate) and then he hunts down their killers and afterwards vows to "avenge" the wrongs done to others. For a series of pulp novels set in the American 1930's, it had several ahead of it's time characterizations in it's supporting cast. He gathered together a group of people to help him in his task. Among them was a young woman who was an expert martial artist and an African American married couple who were Tuskegee graduates (who used the common place racial profiling of the day, that blacks weren't important) to gather info and infiltrate places unseen/unnoticed by the white bad guys.

Having a show set in the 30's with a kickass martial artist woman and black couple tricking the blinder wearing racist whites would be unique....setting it in todays world is just the generic movie of the week.

They could try and translate the essence some of that to today's world, by replacing the african america couple with a gay couple and things of that nature.

 

[The Question]

if you look at it that way sure. But since WB has always had a presence on TV why isn't AOS looked at as copying what WB is doing?

In what way could Agents of SHIELD be looked at as copying what WB is doing? What has WB done that Agents of SHIELD could be copying?

Charmed was originally created to be a companion show to Buffy..the other supernatural show they had on at the time.

1: They made a copycat of another extremely popular show that they distributed but they didn't own or produce.

2: Buffy wasn't the only thing Charmed ripped off. They ripped off popular things constantly. The biggest example is when, completely out of nowhere, they introduced a "Magic School" to the plot right around the time Harry Potter got popular.

Vampire Diaries was based on a book series.

Which they adapted into a TV show during the hight of a similar book series' popularity, and which they changed in the adaptation to be a lot more like that other similar book series. What's your point?

Im not sure what a 'historical' drama about Mary, Queen of the scots has to do with Game of Thrones.

They're both medieval dramas that focus primarily on war and court intrigue.

I look at Beauty and the Beast as a remake of a TV show that had the original paranormal romance before Twilight was even a thing.

That came out right around the time that Twilight made paranormal romance more popular than it's even been before. How is that not riding coattails?

Yeah a TV show about the Gotham Police Department and how Gordon became commissioner is completely like Agents of Shield.

Yeah, because the only time you can reasonably accuse someone of riding the coattails of a popular trend is when the thing that they make is a near carbon copy of that trend, and anything that has the same basic idea and comes out very quickly after the original thing as a clear reaction to it but has different details doesn't count.

 

[C. Lee]

They could try and translate the essence some of that to today's world, by replacing the african america couple with a gay couple and things of that nature.

Why not make the Benson character a gay African American blind paraplegic teenager who fights crime then....I mean it has the "essence" of the crime fighter character in that they both fight crime......

 

[roach]

Yeah, because the only time you can reasonably accuse someone of riding the coattails of a popular trend is when the thing that they make is a near carbon copy of that trend, and anything that has the same basic idea and comes out very quickly after the original thing as a clear reaction to it but has different details doesn't count.

I guess it is the same thing since you said and that makes it so.
http://www.deadline.com/2013/09/commissioner-gordon-fox-tv-series-drama/

EXCLUSIVE: In one of the biggest drama deals this season, after a bidding war, Fox has landed Gotham, from Warner Bros. TV and The Mentalist creator Bruno Heller, with a series commitment.
So while this was announced on the same day AOS came out if you read you'll notice that this show had created a bidding war. That means that this show existed as an idea before the 24th of September. In order for this to have been shopped around that means a treatment and or script was written. So this was a thing for three or four months before September. In order for this to have been shopped around this means people had to read the treatment or script and then decide to pass it to their bosses for approval…maybe a month or two…nothing happens fast in Hollywood. So potentially Gotham existed as a thing for six months before the deal announcement. But no they completely just announced this to ride the coattails of AOS.

For Gotham, Warner Bros TV is mining one of DC Comics‘ most popular character universes, Batman. It explores the origin stories of Commissioner James Gordon and the villains who made Gotham City famous. In Gotham, Gordon is still a detective with the Gotham City Police Department and has yet to meet Batman, who will not be part of the series.

Nothing about this sounds like Agents of Shield.

 

[The Question]

I guess it is the same thing since you said and that makes it so.
http://www.deadline.com/2013/09/commissioner-gordon-fox-tv-series-drama/

EXCLUSIVE: In one of the biggest drama deals this season, after a bidding war, Fox has landed Gotham, from Warner Bros. TV and The Mentalist creator Bruno Heller, with a series commitment.
So while this was announced on the same day AOS came out if you read you'll notice that this show had created a bidding war. That means that this show existed as an idea before the 24th of September. In order for this to have been shopped around that means a treatment and or script was written. So this was a thing for three or four months before September. In order for this to have been shopped around this means people had to read the treatment or script and then decide to pass it to their bosses for approval…maybe a month or two…nothing happens fast in Hollywood. So potentially Gotham existed as a thing for six months before the deal announcement. But no they completely just announced this to ride the coattails of AOS.

For Gotham, Warner Bros TV is mining one of DC Comics‘ most popular character universes, Batman. It explores the origin stories of Commissioner James Gordon and the villains who made Gotham City famous. In Gotham, Gordon is still a detective with the Gotham City Police Department and has yet to meet Batman, who will not be part of the series.

Nothing about this sounds like Agents of Shield.

Except that they're both TV shows set in comic book super hero universes that focus on non-superhero government institutions that usually play a string supporting role in the comics. Also this show was announced the night Agents of SHIELD premiered.

It's pretty clear that making this show is a direct response to Agents of SHIELD.

 

[roach]

Except that they're both TV shows set in comic book super hero universes that focus on non-superhero government institutions that usually play a string supporting role in the comics. Also this show was announced the night Agents of SHIELD premiered.

It's pretty clear that making this show is a direct response to Agents of SHIELD.

no it was not. I have already shown that this show had to already be in the works before the Sept 24th announcement.
It was in a bidding war and apparently was one of the hottest dramas networks were trying to get. Fox bought it and gave it a full season commitment…which means that not only was a script/treatment written but also a map for the first season. None of this took place in one day…hell all of that could only take place in a span of 5-6 months.

 

[The Question]

no it was not. I have already shown that this show had to already be in the works before the Sept 24th announcement. It was in a bidding war and apparently was one of the hottest dramas networks were trying to get. Fox bought it and gave it a full season commitment…which means that not only was a script/treatment written but also a map for the first season. None of this took place in one day…hell all of that could only take place in a span of 5-6 months.

And SHIELD was announced about a year before it's premier night, giving Warner Brothers plenty of time to develop the Gotham show to compete with it.

 

[roach]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2013/09/22/ed-brubaker-sunday-conversation/2828983/

an interview with Ed Brubaker dated Sept 22nd
Q. With Marvel's Agents of SHIELD about to premiere, all sorts of people think a Gotham Central show is totally doable now, too.

A. The book is actually more popular now than when we were doing it. There's been talk of Gotham Central on TV since when we were doing the comic even (in the mid-2000s). Everyone at Warner Bros. really loved it. Chris Nolan after they did Birds of Prey had asked them to just please not do any Batman-related stuff until he was done with his trilogy — looking at Birds of Prey, you can see why. It was not the world's greatest pilot.
Every season, I wait to see if they're going to announce something like that, and just a couple of months ago there was some article in the Hollywood Reporter about them supposedly developing it. I haven't heard any confirmation on it or anything. You can easily see it.

 

[Jason Kane]

I just get tired of the idea that if a comic movie or tv show is coming from WB or Fox it is automatically bad.
Marvel could announce a Squirrel Girl TV show starring Lindsey Lohan and written and directed by Uwe Boll and people would be like "I'd watch it."
WB could announce a live action JL tv show and people would be like "See they don't trust their other heroes without Batmand and Superman."

Then both companies should stop screwing up.

 

[roach]

Then both companies should stop screwing up.

Fox has released two good films with First Class and The Wolverine…are still holding Fantastic Four against them?

WB is launching their Cinematic Universe with Man of Steel which did good at the BO.

perhaps they did

 

[jonathancrane]

Excluding the video game division, DC's television division is the only one making good decisions regarding adaptations. At this point, I do not give a flying f*** if they were responding to AOS or not. They are both going to be completely different: one show deals with aliens, South American fascists, and Asgardian artifacts, while the other is going to be a noir-laced procedural focusing on Bat villains, presumably the more secularized ones (the gangster ones.) They are going to be night and day; besides, the show sure is as hell is not going ram up the cheese factor like AOS (which I love, for its weirdness.) Again, two different entities; the catalyst for their creation is of no importance.

 

[The Question]

Fox has released two good films with First Class and The Wolverine…are still holding Fantastic Four against them?

WB is launching their Cinematic Universe with Man of Steel which did good at the BO.

perhaps they did

Except I thought First Class and Man of Steel were both really bad movies (didn't see The Wolverine, can't comment), so from my POV they still haven't stopped screwing up.

 

[roach]

Except I thought First Class and Man of Steel were both really bad movies (didn't see The Wolverine, can't comment), so from my POV they still haven't stopped screwing up.

while those are your opinions and i respect them…they aren't the majority opinion on those movies. I may like The Last Airbender but the majority opinion on the movie was that it was crap. The majority opinion on FC and MOS were favorable and is/has spawned sequels.

 

[jonathancrane]

@roach

Well said.

 

[roach]

I get that both studios made mistakes in the past but both are under new management and Marvel showed them what could be done with their properties. So we are seeing a huge Days of Future Past movie where time travel may 'fix' problems with the series. They also got rid of the most hated studio exec to comic book fans.
WB has a good start to their universe and they have a big movie on their hands.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Sounds boring to me. These DC shows, including Arrow and Gotham, just don't sound appealing.

 

[C. Lee]

Too bad all the arguing in here isn't about the merits of the making of an updated and radically changed adaptation of the pulp THE AVENGER........

 

[roach]

Too bad all the arguing in here isn't about the merits of the making of an updated and radically changed adaptation of the pulp THE AVENGER........

I have to see it to judge it but from what I read it sounds pretty crappy.

 

[The Question]

Too bad all the arguing in here isn't about the merits of the making of an updated and radically changed adaptation of the pulp THE AVENGER........

Sorry.

*ahem*

It's a modern update of an old thing that will be on the CW. Like every other modern update of an old thing on the CW, and really most CW things in general, it will probably feature very fake looking sets, Vancouver trying to pass for places that are not Vancouver and failing miserably, really cheap costuming, female characters who always have perfectly applied and not particularly subtle make up regardless of the circumstances, young mostly white actors who are much better looking than they are talented, and maybe one really good or at least charismatic actor playing a bad guy who you wish had his or her on TV show written by smarter people. I'm not optimistic.

 

[roach]

Sorry.

*ahem*

It's a modern update of an old thing that will be on the CW. Like every other modern update of an old thing on the CW, and really most CW things in general, it will probably feature very fake looking sets, Vancouver trying to pass for places that are not Vancouver and failing miserably, really cheap costuming, female characters who always have perfectly applied and not particularly subtle make up regardless of the circumstances, young mostly white actors who are much better looking than they are talented, and maybe one really good or at least charismatic actor playing a bad guy who you wish had his or her on TV show written by smarter people. I'm not optimistic.

Agents of SHIELD?

 

[C. Lee]

Sorry.

*ahem*

It's a modern update of an old thing that will be on the CW. Like every other modern update of an old thing on the CW, and really most CW things in general, it will probably feature very fake looking sets, Vancouver trying to pass for places that are not Vancouver and failing miserably, really cheap costuming, female characters who always have perfectly applied and not particularly subtle make up regardless of the circumstances, young mostly white actors who are much better looking than they are talented, and maybe one really good or at least charismatic actor playing a bad guy who you wish had his or her on TV show written by smarter people. I'm not optimistic.

So........I'm worried about corrupting the source material, as in making unneeded and unwarranted changes....and you are worried about the look of the sets and the actors portraying the characters.

 

[The Question]

So........I'm worried about corrupting the source material, as in making unneeded and unwarranted changes....and you are worried about the look of the sets and the actors portraying the characters.

I'm worried about the overall quality of the production. Beyond simply being boring and kind of dumb, those are the really stand out examples of the CW's low quality programming that are somewhat unique to the network.