Defund the police department, can it work? ...and.....

Discussion in 'SHH Community Forum' started by Mondragon, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. Mondragon My other Avi is Gaucho Mickey

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    Do you want yours defunded?

    With few talking about solutions, here is a thread to discuss one.

    And a city (in theory) actually willing to consider something new

    Minneapolis City Council members intend to defund and dismantle the city's police department
    Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to defund and dismantle the city's police department - CNN
    What it means...
    Defunding police: What it means and what it could look like - CNN
    These are snippets, read the full article yourself.

    What say you can it work? Is this even possible?

    Do you want the same for your city, town, community?

    Thoughts? Ideas? Opinions?
     
    #1 Mondragon, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  2. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    The mayor already said it wasn't happening, and then he was literally booed as he pathetically walked away.
     
  3. Mondragon My other Avi is Gaucho Mickey

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    NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio:
    ""

    Trump's reply:
     
  4. Boom I got nothin'

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    Defund? Absolutely.

    Abolish? Ehh, I'd need to see a concrete plan for that solution.
     
  5. Detective Conan Registered

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  6. Lighthouse Fairness, Equality, Bacon

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    That's all fine and good, but it's a bad slogan. It's unrealistic to use this slogan and expect a large part of the population to get "well, it actually means this." I can't believe I'm linking to him, but Cenk of all people said it best.

     
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  7. Blackman C'mon Son

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    Boom
     
  8. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    Yeah, defunding does give that impression. They should use something more accurate to what they're trying to achieve to avoid any initial negative reaction and get people to listen to the suggestions more openly.
     
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  9. Blackman C'mon Son

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    I never got the impressing that "defund" meant "get rid of." Now the abolish thing...
     
  10. Schlosser85 Watchful Protector

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    I'll just copy paste my comment on this over here from the protest thread:

    Dismantling the police is impractical.

    But what most of those advocating "defund the police" are actually calling is for is reduced budget and powers, and allocating some of the duties that have been dubiously thrown under their umbrella to people more qualified to deal with them, like having mental health professionals or the fire department answer 911 calls that are about mental health issues instead of armed cops (who have ended up unnecessarily shooting mentally ill people before), or when cops are called to schools for unruly children (whom we've seen them use excessive force with, or place under arrest unnecessarily).

    Which, pulling police back from those kinds of situations they are neither qualified to deal with, nor should be called upon to deal with in the first place, is a good idea.

    Now, in fairness, some of those advocating this stuff could be clearer about exactly what they're advocating, because giving people the impression they just want to do away with police departments gives people like Trump a rallying cry.
     
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  11. InCali I got a pUpgrade!

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    I think "Defund" is a poor choice of words. There may be places where adding funding to the police is warranted (tho......I'd be surprised) and there are certainly places where police funding needs to be redistributed to other programs. In my neighborhood, we have a liaison and the people in the neighborhood know him. In general, if there were more resources available to the community, we wouldn't need to resort to force. Frankly, I know the people of Minneapolis have gone through a traumatic experience and disbanding the police (not a novel concept) may be the correct approach, but, before you decide on a course, study where you want to go. Maybe they have. I'm not that well versed on where they are in this process.

    If any of you have read some of my recent posts, you'll know I think there needs to be a change, but the police aren't a monolithic structure. What I will say is that in the neighborhoods I lived in as a youngster (South Central, Silver Lake, Echo Park, City Terrace, Inglewood, Gardena, etc., cops come at you with a bad attitude. I don't care who started it, but it's got to stop.
     
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  12. MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    This reminds me of how divisive the title Black Lives Matter is.

    How hard is it to come up with decent slogan.

    It makes me wonder if saboteurs are responsible.
     
  13. Schlosser85 Watchful Protector

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    I don’t think Black Lives Matter is a bad title, but a lot of people sure misconstrue it, though IMO some do so willfully.
     
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  14. MessiahDecoy123 Psychological Anarchist

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    These slogans are too easy to misconstrue and become distractions before the meaningful dialogue even begins.
     
  15. Schlosser85 Watchful Protector

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    So what would be a better one?
     
  16. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    The terms disband and defund are going to be issues going forward.

    Unlike the way some made an issue of the BLM name, eh... I've been in the middle of looting. I lived through the crack era/drive by shooting era of NYC pre-1992. As a mass movement to take LOE's to task for breaking the law and misconduct/abuse you absolutely need a healthy majority of Americans to go along with you. This would also have to be something done not peicemeal but across the board in more or less the same time frame.

    Most Americans will scoff at the idea that every PD in the continental United States would somehow shut down, fire all staff, re-hire after screening etc., retrain the force and on and on. Even if that is what is needed this is already a hard sell. Right now a lot of people are fired up with the feeling that ANYTHING can happen.

    Let me assure you all history tells us that no, not ANYTHING can happen. Will the same mass appeal of making the police face consequences for their misdeeds fade over time? Could we see some event leveraged by Reactionary types and Police which might cut into the enthusiam of the public currently? Don't say that's not possible. Also, often people can be placated by cosmetic changes that are all surface and illusionary.

    I think that Police Reformation or some other more neutral sounding name be floated to help the rest of the public to get on board. No matter how it's explained I can't help but myself think of only negative connotations or fallout when the terms Defund and Disband are being thrown about right now.

    Sadly these days we have to consider these sort of optics questions as much as the important details of policy.
     
  17. Teelie Jokerface

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    What they should have used was a word like "reform" as it is really what they want to do. Reform the police so they are not given such a large amount of responsibility with so little repercussions and instead punished for committing crimes and overreaching.
     
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  18. Mondragon My other Avi is Gaucho Mickey

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    Well that's just it, the thing is they never said "abolish"
    Trump said that.
    Then people started mindlessly parroting him.
    After his tweet, people started arguing against abolish, instead of what was actually said.
    Thinking abolish is what was said, when only Trump suggested that.
    That's what he wants people to think was said or suggested , and people play right into it,

    The first post is full of citations of what was actually said.
    - Rather than "strangers armed with guns," ...., first responders should be mental health providers, social workers, victim advocates and other community members.
    ....law and order isn't abetted by law enforcement, but through education, jobs and mental health services.
    That^ was the emphasis.

    Abolish was never used.

    Yet after the Trump tweet (also posted here) , people even here started mindlessly like perfect wind up parrots arguing against abolish.
    He switched the narrative.

    You can actually see the evidence of it progress in this thread.
     
    #18 Mondragon, Jun 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  19. Blackman C'mon Son

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    Who do you mean by "they".
    Because I've seen a good amount of people say "abolish"
     
  20. InCali I got a pUpgrade!

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    There are absolutely alternatives to police departments. If I had to put a name on it, I would probably use "Rethink Policing". This would entail funding, training, and the very structure of the traditional police departments. The second I saw "Defund", I knew exactly how it was going to be used.
     
  21. Mondragon My other Avi is Gaucho Mickey

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    Again:
    Abolish was never used.
    That is who I mean by they
    Those cited in the first post. There is like half a dozen quotes of what was actually said.
    Abolish was never used.

    Again: The first post is full of citations of what was actually said, and the emphasis of what they are talking about.
    Eg:

    - Rather than "strangers armed with guns," ...., first responders should be mental health providers, social workers, victim advocates and other community members.
    ....law and order isn't abetted by law enforcement, but through education, jobs and mental health services."

    Read that last part again!

    ...law and order isn't abetted by law enforcement, but through education, jobs and mental health services."

    That^ is the emphasis shift in funds, and huge shift in mind-set attitude, they are talking about.

    Trump has everyone ignoring that, and instead arguing that they want to abolish the police , which was never said.



     
    #21 Mondragon, Jun 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  22. Blackman C'mon Son

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    I wasn't only referring to the OP when I was referring to the "abolish" thing. I was just making a general statement.
    I've seen people, not just in this thread, bring up the term "abolish" the police and I was saying that that's more confusing terminology than "defund" the police
     
  23. Boom I got nothin'

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    Imagine if they threw even 1/3 of the police budget at education instead.
     
  24. InCali I got a pUpgrade!

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    The bottom line is this. We need a complete restructuring of how the police operate. You can disband or re-train or whatever. I don't see disbanding as a fix per se. Actions by the police are the nexus around how they are perceived. If a cop can't behave according to revised protocols, then they don't have a job. You can call them city, county, state or whatever. Changing a name changes nothing. Changing actions does. Disbanding, defunding, restructuring, etc. means nothing if it isn't replaced by a well thought out and well executed plan. All of the aforementioned will work or not depending on planning and execution.

    We have a liaison from the LAPD in my neighborhood. We all know him and took a walk with him around the block where he pointed out things we could do to discourage burglars (we had a rash of them and I got into a fight with a guy in my backyard at about 4:30AM before he was arrested. LOL) and generally make the neighborhood safer. He seems like a decent guy and he's certainly always been willing to make himself available to us. We set up a neighborhood watch program and the burglaries have virtually disappeared.

    One thing I did find out. The back seats of LA cop cars are solid plastic and uncomfortable as hell. I was sitting in one when they asked me to ID the guy. The first thing I told them was "Damn, these seats are a lot more uncomfortable than the ones you had when I was young. How do people hide s*** anymore with seats like this?" That got a laugh....
     
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