Discussion: Alternative Energy

[MaskedManJRK]

I wouldn't really call it a solution but more of a delay of it--a true solution to our dependancy on foreign oil won't happen until we finally get off our asses and make a new, easily-accecible energy source.

Still, if we have that much in country, then there's definately no reason to have dealings with the Middle East.

 

[The Senator]

I wouldn't really call it a solution but more of a delay of it--a true solution to our dependancy on foreign oil won't happen until we finally get off our asses and make a new, easily-accecible energy source.

Still, if we have that much in country, then there's definately no reason to have dealings with the Middle East.

And which alternatives to oil do you have in mind?

 

[Joker]

I say we change everything to a complex system of hamsters running in wheels for electricity.

 

[JokerJr.]

spoken like a true genius ^

 

[redfirebird2008]

I've been talking about this for a while. Our shale oil supply is larger than the entire Middle East. Problem is that it's so costly. However, if oil is going to be sustained at $90-100+ over a long period of time, then shale oil becomes a good way for us to have a crutch until we come up with a real alternative that is actually affordable (hopefully hydrogen, which is still not affordable at the moment).

 

[Memphis Slim]

I've been talking about this for a while. Our shale oil supply is larger than the entire Middle East. Problem is that it's so costly. However, if oil is going to be sustained at $90-100+ over a long period of time, then shale oil becomes a good way for us to have a crutch until we come up with a real alternative that is actually affordable (hopefully hydrogen, which is still not affordable at the moment).

Some times the cost is worth it. If we have the frickkin' oil, we need to drill it!!

 

[hippie_hunter]

Or how about we develop a different alternative to energy instead of ruining our natural splendor.

 

[Matt]

Or how about we develop a different alternative to energy instead of ruining our natural splendor.

I actually feel dirty saying this...but I agree with Slim on this one. Sure, developing alternative energies is great. But right now we don't have them and we likely won't have a practical form of alternative energy for some time. Gas prices are out of control and it will GREATLY curb or possibly even stop the coming recession if people weren't bleeding out of their pockets to fill their tanks. It seems like drilling these fields is a neccessary evil.

 

[Obi-Ron]

BISMARCK, N.D. - The government estimated Thursday that up to 4.3 billion barrels of oil can be recovered from the Bakken shale formation in North Dakota and Montana, using current technology.

Okay, so when do we declare war on ND and Montana?

 

[Zen]

More of us could get off our fat asses and bike more.... fund efficient mass transit more, sustainable mass transit like railcars, new age buses... get our railsystems out of the stone age and catch up to europe.

theres alot we can do, we americans lack the courage as a people to alter our lives for the better or think about the future...

we just wait around for a holy grail to appear.

what if it doesn't?

personally i dont think there is an answer that compares to the type of system we enjoyed in the past on hydrocarbons. the future may prove me wrong... but im not the sort of guy to wait around and hope i win the lottery. ill buy a lotto ticket, but ill bike to that cornerstore to get it.

 

[rdh007]

Or how about we develop a different alternative to energy instead of ruining our natural splendor.

Seconded. Also, more important than our natural splendor is what we do when this new panacea runs out.

 

[Matt]

More of us could get off our fat asses and bike more.... fund efficient mass transit more, sustainable mass transit like railcars, new age buses... get our railsystems out of the stone age and catch up to europe.

theres alot we can do, we americans lack the courage as a people to alter our lives for the better or think about the future...

we just wait around for a holy grail to appear.

what if it doesn't?

personally i dont think there is an answer that compares to the type of system we enjoyed in the past on hydrocarbons. the future may prove me wrong... but im not the sort of guy to wait around and hope i win the lottery. ill buy a lotto ticket, but ill bike to that cornerstore to get it.

Not all of us live in cities where it is possible to bike to a cornerstore or take mass transit.

 

[The Senator]

More of us could get off our fat asses and bike more.... fund efficient mass transit more, sustainable mass transit like railcars, new age buses... get our railsystems out of the stone age and catch up to europe.

theres alot we can do, we americans lack the courage as a people to alter our lives for the better or think about the future...

we just wait around for a holy grail to appear.

what if it doesn't?

personally i dont think there is an answer that compares to the type of system we enjoyed in the past on hydrocarbons. the future may prove me wrong... but im not the sort of guy to wait around and hope i win the lottery. ill buy a lotto ticket, but ill bike to that cornerstore to get it.

Think about what you just wrote, then think about the two states mentioned in the title of this thread.

North Dakota and Montana have only a few hundred thousand people spread out over very large states. Montana has one major city-- Billings-- which has just over 100,000 people. North Dakota's largest city is Fargo, with 90 thousand residents. Everyone else is spread out in rural areas, where it isn't cost effective to build light-rail, nor is it appropriate to ask them to bike to work. It's also like that in many populated states, such as Pennsylvania and Ohio.

I agree they should fix many of these problems in our major cities, but everywhere else is almost impractical. This is why an alternative fuel is needed more than anything.

 

[souvlaki]

I actually feel dirty saying this...but I agree with Slim on this one. Sure, developing alternative energies is great. But right now we don't have them and we likely won't have a practical form of alternative energy for some time. Gas prices are out of control and it will GREATLY curb or possibly even stop the coming recession if people weren't bleeding out of their pockets to fill their tanks. It seems like drilling these fields is a neccessary evil.

Yeah... I am shocked to find I actually agree with both of you on this. If it's there, we need it, and fast.

On the alternative energies front, UMass scientists figured out a way to synthesize an energy efficient gas that would cost $1 a gallon recently. Problem is it probably wont be ready for us for another 10 years.

http://gas2.org/2008/04/09/green-ga...uce-1gallon-gas-from-non-food-plant-material/

 

[marcofthebeast]

We should just go nuclear like France has. When contained right its the cleanest of the big three energy sources (Oil,Coal,Nuclear)

Other than Chernobyl there hasn't been a major nuclear power disaster. Chernobyl only happen because it was poorly maintained.

 

[Malice]

This is an old one.
Shale Oil is something that has been known about for some time. But the cost of extracting it was too expensive until recently.

This is a huge posibility now.

 

[Zen]

Think about what you just wrote, then think about the two states mentioned in the title of this thread.

North Dakota and Montana have only a few hundred thousand people spread out over very large states. Montana has one major city-- Billings-- which has just over 100,000 people. North Dakota's largest city is Fargo, with 90 thousand residents. Everyone else is spread out in rural areas, where it isn't cost effective to build light-rail, nor is it appropriate to ask them to bike to work. It's also like that in many populated states, such as Pennsylvania and Ohio.

I agree they should fix many of these problems in our major cities, but everywhere else is almost impractical. This is why an alternative fuel is needed more than anything.

to you and Matt:

the largest consumption of oil products centers precisely around cities. that is where almost all of what im talking about needs to take place.

light rail is not impractical for those people, driving to and from work and paying for that gas.... having their commodities trucked in and essentially paying for that gas... is what is impractical, when it can all be serviced by one rail line, even if theres only 10,000 people.

Live closer to work. why the hell should they live 20 miles form there job?

I bike 7 miles to college and then 7 mimles back. most people can find houses within that range to their job.

if you cant, perhaps you should keep your job closer to your home, like farming. the sad part is they may need to utilize a horse to get to the nearest town with rail... socially unacceptable? maybe thats whats sad.

this is what im talking about...

wait around for it, i think thats irresponsible.

making little changes now somewhat alleiviates the big changes we may have to make in the future. Our mass transit system is garbage. a train can move freight at a fraction of the cost of a trailor on road... and the upkeep of railines is less than pavement.

 

[The Senator]

to you and Matt:

the largest consumption of oil products centers precisely around cities. that is where almost all of what im talking about needs to take place.

light rail is not impractical for those people, driving to and from work and paying for that gas.... having their commodities trucked in and essentially paying for that gas... is what is impractical, when it can all be serviced by one rail line, even if theres only 10,000 people.

Live closer to work. why the hell should they live 20 miles form there job?

I bike 7 miles to college and then 7 mimles back. most people can find houses within that range to their job.

if you cant, perhaps you should keep your job closer to your home, like farming. the sad part is they may need to utilize a horse to get to the nearest town with rail... socially unacceptable? maybe thats whats sad.

this is what im talking about...

wait around for it, i think thats irresponsible.

making little changes now somewhat alleiviates the big changes we may have to make in the future. Our mass transit system is garbage. a train can move freight at a fraction of the cost of a trailor on road... and the upkeep of railines is less than pavement.

So, basically, you don't think people should live in the country, in homes owned by their families, in towns they want to live in? Everyone should move to the cities, where there are problems with overcrowding as it is? Where the cost of living is considerably higher on everything, not just gas but food and rent? Where housing is virtually unaffordable and the job market is more scarce?

You know that people have left the cities for the country because the cost of living is so expensive there, right?

People shouldn't be forced to move away from Nowheresville, MT if they don't want to. This country is based around the freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness-- and if people find that in rural Montana or Idaho or Nevada, then so be it.

We need to figure out a responsible solution. We need a new fuel or a new type of vehicle to solve our energy crisis.

 

[EdRyder]

The idea that there arent any practical alternative vehicle fuels available now is nonsense.
Note the documentary:"Who killed the electric car" and all the steps the Government,Big Oil, and the auto industry did to kill it.Note the fact that the first Solar powered vehicle was invented in the 50's.Recently an engineer in Luxembourg produced an air powered car that runs on compressed air and gives off zero emissions,..

 

[Memphis Slim]

Or how about we develop a different alternative to energy instead of ruining our natural splendor.

WHAT? You're more worried about natural splendor than grandma not being able to pay her heating bill??

The splendor will be fine.

also....we have another source already. It's called Nuclear! The Frogs have been using it for years now with no problem. That's the only thing I dig about France right now.

 

[Memphis Slim]

More of us could get off our fat asses and bike more.... fund efficient mass transit more, sustainable mass transit like railcars, new age buses... get our railsystems out of the stone age and catch up to europe.

theres alot we can do, we americans lack the courage as a people to alter our lives for the better or think about the future...

we just wait around for a holy grail to appear.

what if it doesn't?

personally i dont think there is an answer that compares to the type of system we enjoyed in the past on hydrocarbons. the future may prove me wrong... but im not the sort of guy to wait around and hope i win the lottery. ill buy a lotto ticket, but ill bike to that cornerstore to get it.

Do you have a family?? wife..... kids....etc?

 

[Obi-Ron]

Other than Chernobyl there hasn't been a major nuclear power disaster.

You mean besides Three Mile Island?

 

[Malice]

The US simply needs to use what it can build.

Nuclear, Coal and Local Oil...

hoping to drop the oil and coal after substantial resources are dumped and provide good returns on a good renewable source of energy

 

[StorminNorman]

We need to utilize this. We are years away from utilizing alternative energy - no reason we should be raped up the ass at the pump in the mean time.

 

[zenile]

Okay, so when do we declare war on ND and Montana?

Why do you hate America?