Discussion: Rebuilding The World Trade Center - Part 2

[danoyse]

Interesting...one of my friends posted this article on Facebook this morning:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/nyregion/11religion.html?sudsredirect=true

Apparently, the World Trade Center had a prayer room. And no one bothered them about it, even after the 93 bombing.

 

[Kelly]

A lesson learned, hopefully won't take us this long...

http://www.catholicnews.com/jpii/stories/story03.htm


Has a similar sound to me...

 

[Marx]

Interesting...one of my friends posted this article on Facebook this morning:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/nyregion/11religion.html?sudsredirect=true

Apparently, the World Trade Center had a prayer room. And no one bothered them about it, even after the 93 bombing.

Imagine that...

 

[Prison Mike]

I like the pool design. Especially with the victims names engraved around the pool.

 

[Schlosser85]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ir-Koran-burning-riots.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

IMO the American media bears some of the responsibility for this for giving someone as irrelevant as Terry Jones a national spotlight.

 

[Gamma Ray]

nuns are pushing that pretty close. It is saddening that people aren't even afraid to admit their prejudice anymore. It is because of the way conservatives are directing the conversation. They are making people feel like being prejudice is nothing to feel guilty about.

Nice try with the comparison, but it doesn't work. Berkas are about oppressing women. Nuns make a life choice.

Liberals are just as prejudiced as Conservatives. Don't kid yourself.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ir-Koran-burning-riots.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

IMO the American media bears some of the responsibility for this for giving someone as irrelevant as Terry Jones a national spotlight.

No. It's all on the riot planners (if there were any) and the actual rioters.

Interesting...one of my friends posted this article on Facebook this morning:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/nyregion/11religion.html?sudsredirect=true

Apparently, the World Trade Center had a prayer room. And no one bothered them about it, even after the 93 bombing.

Completely different times, completely different attacks. First, you can't compare 6 murders to thousands. Second, you can't compare radical Islam then to what it has metastasized into today.

 

[Schlosser85]

No. It's all on the riot planners (if there were any) and the actual rioters.

There's not any excuses for them attacking Christian churches in their own country that had nothing to do with the Koran burning.

They need to, frankly, grow the **** up and stop throwing national psychotic temper tantrums whenever anyone gives a real or perceived slight to Muhammad, Islam, or the Koran.

HOWEVER, there was no need whatsoever for the US media to put such a spotlight on one pastor with a fifty-person congregation. Terry Jones is a nobody with very limited influence....except that the media needed something to talk about to avoid talking about things of actual relevance that they don't want to talk about. Also, the media loves a good firestorm of controversy, especially one they create themselves.

The flames of anti-US hatred are burning whether anyone ever heard of Terry Jones or not, but this was a completely unnecessary fanning of them.

Don't get me wrong, I have little patience for the rioters who whip so easily into their anti-Christian frenzies when they hear a report of Korans being burned when they burn Bibles and US flags left and right.

But it might also be worth wondering exactly how skewed the news reports they get about the US are.

 

[Marx]

There's not any excuses for them attacking Christian churches in their own country that had nothing to do with the Koran burning.

They need to, frankly, grow the **** up and stop throwing national psychotic temper tantrums whenever anyone gives a real or perceived slight to Muhammad, Islam, or the Koran.

HOWEVER, there was no need whatsoever for the US media to put such a spotlight on one pastor with a fifty-person congregation. Terry Jones is a nobody with very limited influence....except that the media needed something to talk about to avoid talking about things of actual relevance that they don't want to talk about. Also, the media loves a good firestorm of controversy, especially one they create themselves.

The flames of anti-US hatred are burning whether anyone ever heard of Terry Jones or not, but this was a completely unnecessary fanning of them.

Don't get me wrong, I have little patience for the rioters who whip so easily into their anti-Christian frenzies when they hear a report of Korans being burned when they burn Bibles and US flags left and right.

But it might also be worth wondering exactly how skewed the news reports they get about the US are.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Gamma Ray]

But it might also be worth wondering exactly how skewed the news reports they get about the US are.

They are getting skewed news no matter what is published in the media. While I agree that a lot of press time is spent on non-news (such is life when you have 24-hour news networks), we should not have to censor anything to cater to radicals.

And just playing devils advocate here, but how is a congregation of 50 members any less significant than a small plane crash into an office building or a rally of 100 people? Who decides what constitutes significant news, especially if that news is in line with American opinion - or at least the opinion of that channels viewers.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Just heard Rauf's little PR cleanup attempt. How dare he say that the area near ground zero is not hallowed or important. There's a strip joint near it? So what? Strippers were not responsible for 9/11. Sure not every Muslim holds the same ideals as the radicals, but the fact that it was radical Muslims that committed those acts and it is the mainstream Muslim population's problem and something that THEY have to work to clean up. Dividing a nation over a mosque is not a good way to do that.

I also have yet to see anyone mention the shady deal of how they acquired the property. According to news outlets, an offer of 20 million was on the table for the property and the mosque owners offered 4 million and it was accepted. It just doesn't make any sense. And it's illegal to do that.

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah, it's not like there were Muslims who were also killed in the 9/11 attacks, or that there was a mosque inside the WTC, or that Muslims have fought and bled for the US in Afghanistan and Iraq...

Oh wait.

It's the Muslim community's "problem?"



Here I was thinking that after getting a thumb's up on Fox News and going fine quietly for a year that it was reactionaries' problem after Republicans and Fox News picked the story up to run on near a major election.

 

[bell110]

Just heard Rauf's little PR cleanup attempt. How dare he say that the area near ground zero is not hallowed or important.

And who declared it hollowed or sacred?

There's a strip joint near it? So what? Strippers were not responsible for 9/11. Sure not every Muslim holds the same ideals as the radicals, but the fact that it was radical Muslims that committed those acts...

Yeah, and the fact is radical Humans committed those acts. Humans are no longer allowed to do any human activities in at least a 2 block radius of ground zero. AT LEAST.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Yeah, it's not like there were Muslims who were also killed in the 9/11 attacks, or that there was a mosque inside the WTC, or that Muslims have fought and bled for the US in Afghanistan and Iraq...

Oh wait.

It's the Muslim community's "problem?"

Did you read my post? I said that, obviously, there are Muslims who are completely against the radicals, yet this still became their problem when people of their faith committed these acts - whether they agree with fundamentalism or not. Perhaps I just wasn't clear.

Oh, and I can do the facepalm thing too.

And who declared it hollowed or sacred?



Yeah, and the fact is radical Humans committed those acts. Humans are no longer allowed to do any human activities in at least a 2 block radius of ground zero. AT LEAST.

I think a better question is WHAT made it sacred, and that would be the piece of the fuselage that fell near it.

Your argument is stupid.

And I would not call the terrorists from 9/11 human.





Also waiting to hear the excuses from the shady acquisition of the property.

 

[DACrowe]

So I guess it's your problem when that crazy guy shot an abortion doctor last year? It is also your problem when that jackass shot a guard at the Holocaust Museum in D.C. last year. And if I can guess your politics, it must also have been your problem to solve after Timothy McVeigh blew up a Federal building with children in it.



That is horrible, horrible and dangerous logic.

 

[Gamma Ray]

So I guess it's your problem when that crazy guy shot an abortion doctor last year? It is also your problem when that jackass shot a guard at the Holocaust Museum in D.C. last year. And if I can guess your politics, it must also have been your problem to solve after Timothy McVeigh blew up a Federal building with children in it.

Well, I'm not a Christian so I guess not.

These are all events that were highly condemned and highly publicized. Also, only one of those cases - I'm assuming the abortion case, actually, since you didn't name the shooter - was done in the name of religion. McVeigh wasn't a religious radical, he was a political radical and not even religious (His words: "I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs"). James Von Brunn (aka Holocaust Museum shooter) was a white supremacist. Either way, these psychos were maligned and condemned by every media outlet, politician and person of importance.

 

[Wylie Times]

Well, I'm not a Christian so I guess not.

These are all events that were highly condemned and highly publicized. Also, only one of those cases - I'm assuming the abortion case, actually, since you didn't name the shooter - was done in the name of religion. McVeigh wasn't a religious radical, he was a political radical and not even religious (His words: "I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs"). James Von Brunn (aka Holocaust Museum shooter) was a white supremacist. Either way, these psychos were maligned and condemned by every media outlet, politician and person of importance.

I was going to point out that the Klan is hate group that prides itself on "Christian values" but you changed your post lol.

Also are the people against the cultural center being built equally against Confederate flags flying from state owned building and would they be for getting rid of the faces sculpted on Mt. Rushmore?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Did you read my post? I said that, obviously, there are Muslims who are completely against the radicals, yet this still became their problem when people of their faith committed these acts - whether they agree with fundamentalism or not. Perhaps I just wasn't clear.

Right it is up to Muslim Americans to stand up to defend their name...even though most detractors from this community center generalize all American Muslims as terrorists. So in order for them to do this, they should....move the community center as far away as possible, maybe to Antarctica...you know, to fix this problem.

I think a better question is WHAT made it sacred, and that would be the piece of the fuselage that fell near it.

Be honest, did every piece of the planes that fell off around Ground Zero get turned into hallowed ground?

And I would not call the terrorists from 9/11 human.

Yeah they were crazy Aliens from the Planet Melmac. However, I'm pretty sure they were neither Aliens, nor crazy. They were pre-meditating murderers; 15 out of 19 were from our great ally, Saudi Arabia, 2 of them were from UAE, 1 from Egypt, and 1 from Lebanon.

One of their motivations was US Bases in and around Saudi Arabia, another was the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, another was US imperial power in the Middle East. They got trained in Afghanistan, one of the main targets for US and Euro inspired sanctions that led to the desperate move for attention by the Taliban to blow up ancient 1400 year old statues and run the lucrative Opium trade.

All those nations have great relationships with the USA currently. Especially Saud Arabia who just got approved for 60 Billion dollars worth of weapons.

Also waiting to hear the excuses from the shady acquisition of the property.

Nobody was asking this question in 2009. If the FBI had a problem with this business venture they would have been the first to question it.

 

[Marx]

Just heard Rauf's little PR cleanup attempt. How dare he say that the area near ground zero is not hallowed or important. There's a strip joint near it? So what? Strippers were not responsible for 9/11. Sure not every Muslim holds the same ideals as the radicals, but the fact that it was radical Muslims that committed those acts and it is the mainstream Muslim population's problem and something that THEY have to work to clean up. Dividing a nation over a mosque is not a good way to do that.

I'm not even sure where to start with a response to this comment.

Did you read my post? I said that, obviously, there are Muslims who are completely against the radicals, yet this still became their problem when people of their faith committed these acts - whether they agree with fundamentalism or not. Perhaps I just wasn't clear.

Oh, and I can do the facepalm thing too.

I think a better question is WHAT made it sacred, and that would be the piece of the fuselage that fell near it.

Your argument is stupid.

And I would not call the terrorists from 9/11 human.

Also waiting to hear the excuses from the shady acquisition of the property.

Do not cheapen the debate by taking this road. Everyone has a right to express their opinion without being faced with this kind of response.

 

[DACrowe]

Well, I'm not a Christian so I guess not.

These are all events that were highly condemned and highly publicized. Also, only one of those cases - I'm assuming the abortion case, actually, since you didn't name the shooter - was done in the name of religion. McVeigh wasn't a religious radical, he was a political radical and not even religious (His words: "I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs"). James Von Brunn (aka Holocaust Museum shooter) was a white supremacist. Either way, these psychos were maligned and condemned by every media outlet, politician and person of importance.

I just assumed given your bigotry to Muslims you were a Christian. My bad.

And I also assumed you were conservative, hence if you read my post that by your logic we should blame all anti-government conservatives for the Oklahoma City Bombing. If you are a conservative, what have you done to atone for the sins of your people? After all you're all the same. Right? Right?

Your logic is still inarguably wrong in this case.

 

[VampElvis]

Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ
​

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local..._fenton_fired_from_his_job_at_nj_transit.html


1st Amendments Rights Violated?
What say you?

 

[The Question]

Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ
​

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local..._fenton_fired_from_his_job_at_nj_transit.html


1st Amendments Rights Violated?
What say you?

No, because the first amendment applies to the government making laws or taking action against citizens. You can get fired for any reason.

 

[VampElvis]

The ACLU tends to disagree (as quoted in the article).

 

[Wylie Times]

No, because the first amendment applies to the government making laws or taking action against citizens. You can get fired for any reason.

Exactly....The first amendment protects you from the government silencing you and it isn't a free pass for people to say and do whatever they want anyone taking issue with it. People getting fired for running their mouth or doing something stupid outside of work is nothing new.

 

[Wylie Times]

The ACLU tends to disagree (as quoted in the article).

Doesn't mean they're right. It's also stated in the article that it's considered a "code of ethics" violation which is common for a lot of business these days.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Like that Superintendent who got fired for flaunting how easy his job was on Facebook. Anyways, I hope he's happy now. That smirk on his face should disappear when this story runs in Afghanistan and it leads to the death of more civilians and emboldens those fighting US Troops.