DTL Season 5-All Star Match

[DTL Commish]

The rules:
Here we go. The All-Star match.

The thread will be in use for 7 days. Days 1-4 (May 17 - May 20) are strictly setup time for owners to plead their cases, tell us their team’s strategies, breakdown the match ups, and do whatever else they can/want to do to try and convince you that their team would pull out a victory. Please, let the owners do this on their own with no help.

On Day 5 (May 21) I will post and tell everyone that voting may begin. Any votes cast before I open voting will not count. Look over the matchups and read the strategies, and take into consideration how in-character each character is. Afterwards, use your best judgment to decide who you think has the best chance to win the match. (Note: The length of a writeup the discretion of the owner. Do not punish owners just for having a shorter writeup.)

To vote, post the team names you think will prevail in each match. Remember to vote for all matches or your vote will not count! The teams with the highest vote total at the end of the 7th day (May 23) will get a W while the other will get an L. (Equal votes will result in a tie.)

The battleground for this week is: Apokalips

Timely All-Star lineup
Doomsday/Brainiac (DU)
Hadrian (MU)
Byakko (DM)
Proctor (MR)
Darkchylde (MR)

VS.

National All-Star lineup
Tony Stark (Sorcerer Supreme) (MU)
Baron Zemo (w Moonstones) (MU)
Brainiac-417 (DM)
Midnighter (DR)
Death Wolverine (DM)

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I will hopefully be posting something. I did a write up but lost it thanks to modern technology.

 

[wiegeabo]

I will hopefully be posting something. I did a write up but lost it thanks to modern technology.

I wish I had that excuse. I just got so busy with other things, this completely slipped my mind. But with the long weekend, I'll get the battle up.

 

[wiegeabo]

Prep-Time here...


Ok, keeping things brief.


Brainiac and Hadrian are going to have a field day picking apart and adapting Apokoliptian technology.

As for the others, they don't have much to do but work with Brainiac and Hadrian to come up with an attack plan.

Of course, they also have to work together. This shouldn't be a problem though. Brainiac will work with and exploit anyone if it furthers his goals. If they annoy him too much, he'll just kill them after the battle or enslave their minds with some tech. Similarly, Hadrian will do what he needs to to get the job done. Byakko is ruthless anyway and if she needs to work with villains, even if she doesn't like it, she will. Besides, she's got villains on the other team to worry about first. Proctor may be a villain, but as long as the heroes don't get in his way, he'll be just fine. And I doubt Darkchylde will have any problems either.

 

[wiegeabo]

Battle-Time here...

Quick strategies:

Neither Stark nor Zemo have shown superspeed on a Superman level. And if they did, they might be tuber. But Doomsday has better than Superman speed. So if he can get the jump on either of them when the battle starts, he'll have their numbers. Especially if Brianiac gets to poke around with Apokoliptain tech.

The trick is getting to one of them right when the battle starts. This is where Darkchylde comes in. She can open a portal to Stark and Brainiac can leap through it at Superman speeds with her (or throw and and follow). Then she can fly right into Stark with her Soul Sword, disabling all the magic he's cast on himself, and and tech in his armor that relies on magic. At worst, Stark's armor is now useless. At best, it's severely crippled. But either way, it won't stand up against Doomsday's power and speed because this Stark spent his time upgrading his armor with magic, not more powerful technologies.


With Stark occupied, Hardrian's target is obviously Zemo. Again, Zemo's lack of superspeed limits him because, even if the Moonstones showed him what was going to happen, he couldn't stop it and respond to Hadrian's android fast attack. And that attack is to teleport the Moonstones away (rRemember, Hadrian doesn't need to know where something is to teleport it to him). Zemo's always been shown keeping them around him, so if this works, he'll have no powers. If necessary, the Stones could be sent through one of Darkchylde's portals into another dimension. That should work. And Zemo will be easy to pick off.


The logical choice to take on Midnighter is Byakko. Why? Because she's intangible. It's doubtful any non-uber on my team can take out Midnighter in a fight, except someone who can become intangible. And even this might not be enough against Midnighter. But Byakko can manipulate gravity and pin Midnighter to the ground or a wall, and have her way with him.


And, keeping in the theme of logical matchups, Proctor teleports to fight Brainiac. Why? Because even though Brainiac 417 is non-corporeal, the Ebony Blade can still cut him. Proctor also has the power and skill to fend off any Mon'Elves. And, since Brainiac has a mind, Proctor may be able to attack him that way as well.


This seems to leave Death on his own to help out his team. But remember that Darkchylde really only needs to stay with Brainiac/Doomsday for the initial attack. At that point she can track Death using a spell and teleport to engage him. Even with her magic, Death probably still has a huge advantage on Darkchylde, but she only needs to last long enough, and keep Death from helping his team, for one of the ubers to assist her. And even if Stark puts up a long fight against Doomsday, Hadrian should take out Zemo quick, help put Stark down, and get to Darkchylde (which frees Brainiac up to help the others).


If my team loses anyone in battle, it will most likely be Darkchylde, and possibly Proctor. But once my ubers are free to join the rest of the team, their opponents really don't stand a chance.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I am going to do a brief write up as I lost my original one and do not have it in me to rewrite everything.

Prep-Time

Zemo and Stark face off as they realise they will have to cooperate after having battled each other only just recently. However, both gentlemen kow they have to put aside their differences if they are to defeat this team.

Brainiac 417 with the knowledge of the 843rd century is easily able to take apart Apokolypse to build what he needs. All fo them know their opponents inside and out and therefore are ready to face them.

Brainiac builds a sonic blaster which he makes ready to use. He also prepares replicates of his flight rings that he hands out to Midnighter and Death as well as additional shields he gives to everybody.

After discussions with Zemo who lays out a plan for the rest of them each prepare with Stark loading up all his usual spells plus a special one causing forgetfulness.

Battle

At the start of the batle the team as a unit blitz the others. Zemo teleports Doomsday away while Stark simultaneously issues a spell causing a total loss of memory by Hadrian.

Braniac 417 uses his sonic blaster to great effect against Byakko which causes her to go down for the count. It his one of her weaknesses as shown when Steel's sister created one on the spot and caused her great damage.

The others square off with death using his cloak and his heaitenned senses to go after darkchylde and the evil Black Knight faces Midnighter. Midnighter realises through his different computations that he is out matched but using his flight capabilities he is able to evade Proctor. Death on the other hand has it allot easier as he is able to hunt darkchylde and dispose of her as the child she is. She is unable tio detect him and therefore to evade him. Once he disposes of her he goes to help against Proctor. Together, they dispose of him.

The Uber fight has Stark and Zemo teaming against a forgetful Hadrian who has forgotted that he was fighting in a team and that his teammate is now in an alternate dimension. The fight cannot last long as Hadrian cannot hold off both Stark and Zemo who can even predict his very moves.

The fight ends in a suprisingly short period of time with this temporary team taking the victory as empty as it may be.

 

[wiegeabo]

I've got a brief writeup written out. So if I don't get it typed during lunch, it'll be up tonight.

 

[wiegeabo]

Ok, brief but up. I'll worry about defending and rebutting later.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttal

Quick strategies:

Neither Stark nor Zemo have shown superspeed on a Superman level. And if they did, they might be tuber. But Doomsday has better than Superman speed. So if he can get the jump on either of them when the battle starts, he'll have their numbers. Especially if Brianiac gets to poke around with Apokoliptain tech.

You seem to forget that the armor has built in spells and that they go off at the speed of thought.

The trick is getting to one of them right when the battle starts. This is where Darkchylde comes in. She can open a portal to Stark and Brainiac can leap through it at Superman speeds with her (or throw and and follow). Then she can fly right into Stark with her Soul Sword, disabling all the magic he's cast on himself, and and tech in his armor that relies on magic. At worst, Stark's armor is now useless. At best, it's severely crippled. But either way, it won't stand up against Doomsday's power and speed because this Stark spent his time upgrading his armor with magic, not more powerful technologies.

I have two problems with that. zemo could have predicted them and Stark's armour is a mix of both magic and technology. It has repulsor rays for example and does afford him a measure of strength. It is not pure magic as you seem to infer.

Second, his spell of forgetfullness which he would launch would be instantaneous. His speels do not forget could cath people like the silver surfer who is just as fast.

With Stark occupied, Hardrian's target is obviously Zemo. Again, Zemo's lack of superspeed limits him because, even if the Moonstones showed him what was going to happen, he couldn't stop it and respond to Hadrian's android fast attack. And that attack is to teleport the Moonstones away (rRemember, Hadrian doesn't need to know where something is to teleport it to him). Zemo's always been shown keeping them around him, so if this works, he'll have no powers. If necessary, the Stones could be sent through one of Darkchylde's portals into another dimension. That should work. And Zemo will be easy to pick off.

Let us not forget that Zemo can affect time and that Hadrian was never fast enough as to outrun time. He is not the Flash. Plus it is unliklely he would êven remember how his armour works given Stark would have launched his spell instantaneously.

The logical choice to take on Midnighter is Byakko. Why? Because she's intangible. It's doubtful any non-uber on my team can take out Midnighter in a fight, except someone who can become intangible. And even this might not be enough against Midnighter. But Byakko can manipulate gravity and pin Midnighter to the ground or a wall, and have her way with him.

The logical choice would be Braniac given they are both middles and that he is fully aware that one of her only weaknesses is sonics. Steel and his sister defeated her with them. Braniac which she cannot even harm would certainly take her out with it.

And, keeping in the theme of logical matchups, Proctor teleports to fight Brainiac. Why? Because even though Brainiac 417 is non-corporeal, the Ebony Blade can still cut him. Proctor also has the power and skill to fend off any Mon'Elves. And, since Brainiac has a mind, Proctor may be able to attack him that way as well.

My question is how the ebony blade could cut him given there is nothing to cut. He is not a spirit. Plus he has all the tech he needs with full access to Apokolypse which he could hack very easily. And if I can use the mon elves, do not forget that they each (3 of them) have the 1/8th power of Superman which means they are infinitely faster and stronger then Proctor.

This seems to leave Death on his own to help out his team. But remember that Darkchylde really only needs to stay with Brainiac/Doomsday for the initial attack. At that point she can track Death using a spell and teleport to engage him. Even with her magic, Death probably still has a huge advantage on Darkchylde, but she only needs to last long enough, and keep Death from helping his team, for one of the ubers to assist her. And even if Stark puts up a long fight against Doomsday, Hadrian should take out Zemo quick, help put Stark down, and get to Darkchylde (which frees Brainiac up to help the others).

death is intangible and she has no defence against him. He would go after her and dispose of her in the first instants of battle.

If my team loses anyone in battle, it will most likely be Darkchylde, and possibly Proctor. But once my ubers are free to join the rest of the team, their opponents really don't stand a chance.

I obviously do not agree because you do not take account that Zemo can manipulate time as he froze Genis in between seconds and then took him apart in his own time. Plus there is a measure of tech in Stark's armour and he would definitely fire off a repulsor ray against Darkchylde if she came at him. Plus he can fly and Doomsday cannot. Not to mention, Zemo would be teleporting him away in the first instant of battle and Hadrian would have forgotten him immediately as well.

 

[wiegeabo]

I'll try and get some counter arguments up tonight. Even if I don't, I'll open voting tomorrow.

 

[XFanTim]

Out of curiosity, can anyone tell me how B-417's power is described in the comics? I haven't read the two issues he appears in (Legionairres 1,000,000 and Legion of Superheroes 1,000,000), so I've always just been going on how people here explained it. I'd prefer either a scan or an actual word-for-word quote.

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting may now begin.

 

[wiegeabo]

All Brianiac and Hadrian need to do to protect themselves (since they're the only two Stark can cast a spell on) is have Darkchylde run them through with her sword. This wouldn't harm them, but would remove any enchantments. It may even be enough that they are touching her or the sword to receive protection and not be effected at all.

And if Brainiac and Hadrian aren't hampered by any spells, then they can go ahead with the attack plan I laid out.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

All Brianiac and Hadrian need to do to protect themselves (since they're the only two Stark can cast a spell on) is have Darkchylde run them through with her sword. This wouldn't harm them, but would remove any enchantments. It may even be enough that they are touching her or the sword to receive protection and not be effected at all.

And if Brainiac and Hadrian aren't hampered by any spells, then they can go ahead with the attack plan I laid out.

How is Braniac going to get back when he will be transported elsewhere and how is Darkchylde going to do anything with Death (he is undetectable and has a teleporter) out to kill her.

 

[XFanTim]

I vote for the Timely Conference. I admit it's hard not to be biased given that three of my characters are on the team, but I think I have a solid justification for my vote, which I will try to outline here.

The main thing is this: both sides seem to be counting on their ubers to get the drop on the opposition's ubers. Personally, I just think Wieg's team would have a big advantage in this area. Doomsday-Brainiac is faster than Superman. He's fast enough to kick the crap out of Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, Orion, and Green Lantern simultaneously. No one on Ahura's team has that level of speed. Hadrian also has Superman-level reflexes as evidenced by his fights with Mr. Majestic.

Ahura argues that Stark can cast spells "instantaneously". In fact, he can only cast them as fast as his computer system can react. And his technology is actually inferior to 616 Iron Man (Khell himself has admitted in the rankings debate that this Stark spent more time on magic and thus his tech would be inferior.) Regardless, even 616 Iron Man's computers don't work at anywhere near Superman-level speed.

I suppose Ahura could have Stark or Zemo speed themselves up with time manipulation, or have Stark scavenge some technology to give him a speed boost. However, I think to speed up a character as versatile as Stark or Zemo to Superman level would make them tuber. In my view, the only reason guys like Dr. Strange are allowed at the same ranking as far less versatile ubers like Superman is because they can't match his speed. Stark at his normal speed is already a sped up version of Dr. Strange, and already bordering on tuber. Zemo with his precog is also already pushing the bar even without a speed boost.

Stark's armor is a mix of magic and technology, but I do think shorting out the magical parts would pretty badly cripple the non-magical parts given that they are all interwoven. Even if it didn't, Iron Man level tech without magic wouldn't last a nanosecond against Doomsday. And if Doomsday throws Darkchylde at maximum speeds or just charges Stark while carrying her, she'll hit Stark faster than he can react (due to Doomsday's speed) and her sword will disrupt his magic.

Also regarding Stark's spells being fast enough to catch the Silver Surfer, it's worth remembering that the Silver Surfer we've always treated as merely moving fast, not having superfast reflexes like the top level ubers from the DC Universe do.

Of course Zemo can give warning of their strategy but given that Wieg's team has multiple teleporters he can attack from any angle at any moment. Zemo would see the many possible times and places they could attack, but wouldn't necessarily know the exact moment or direction it's coming from. And when it happens I don't think the team can react quick enough to stop it anyway. I could know a sniper is going to shoot me and the exact time it would happen, but it wouldn't make me fast enough to catch the bullet out of the air.

Ahura's team might have the edge among the lower level battles, although Proctor and Byakko would both give a tough fight. It's a little hard for me to assess without knowing exactly what works on Brainiac-417. But one thing I do know works on him is telepathy, which means once Doomsday-Brainiac gets done with the ubers then Brainiac-417 and the regs are toast.

In Summary: I see this coming down to who's able to get the drop on the other team -- especially because both players wrote it that way. If Ahura had argued his team would win by stealth, I might be more inclined to agree, but trying to beat Doomsday by speed-blitzing him when you don't have anyone with even Superman-level speed? I just don't see it.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Well it is quite an explanation but one thing not taken into account is Stark flies while Doomsday and Darkchylde do not. Even if he throws her really hard, it will take some time for him to get there plus he will be in a time freeze because of Zemo who will be slowing all of them down. Death is also going after Darkchylde so I saw that as an almost instantaneous win as well.

 

[XFanTim]

Well, in Wieg's version Darkchylde opens a portal to Stark which Doomsday throws her through (or leaps through while carrying her). So that would let them traverse the distance to a flying Stark.

She can open a portal to Stark and Brainiac can leap through it at Superman speeds with her (or throw and and follow).

 

[Khellendros]

Voting for Ahura because everyone on his team just outclasses the other team, in one way or the other. Speed is a LOT less devastating when Zemo can give his team at least a general idea of what the other team will do.

 

[Aristotle]

National in a close one. It almost comes down to Stark Supreme vs. Doomsday/Brainiac, but Zemo adds an edge to Stark's defense that pushes National over the edge, and which Hadrian just can't compensate for.

 

[XFanTim]

I wonder if anyone will end up voting against their own conference . . . .

Gog said via PM that he's still planning to vote, and I think LV mentioned she would in the discussion thread. I also PMed reminders to Nightwing and AS, but haven't heard back from them.

 

[Dark Gog]

I think I'll side with the Doodrians here. I'm not sure Doomsday's really quite Superman-level at it, but speed's a critical edge for their side I didn't feel was properly addressed. I also felt Ahura portrayed them as a bit lethargic in pressing their advantages, Darkchylde in particular.

Not that it's a stomp or anything. I wouldn't expect Illyana to get near enough Stark to run him through, for one, while the Moonstones should provide what I'd generally consider the more formidable Ubers with precisely that sort of intel. Of all the geniuses on the field, Stark specifically could have been truly frightening applying his craft to existing technology, an element I'm not sure either side mentioned.

Ultimately, I'm judging this primarily by write-ups, and I feel the Timely Conference edges it out.

 

[XFanTim]

It may be the world's most protracted match (it was supposed to end, what, three weeks ago?) but at least we have a bit of drama. Current vote is 2-2. Maybe LadyVader will break the tie?

 

[wiegeabo]

I'll close the poll Sunday.

 

[wiegeabo]

Last call for all-star votes!

 

[DTL Commish]

Voting is now over.
Final results:

Timely Conference 2
National Conference 2