Dune

[Link]

It truly is an event film. I'm going to see it again today. All showings have been pretty much packed here. This might be a bigger hit than expected. Seeing this with 400 people yesterday was something I haven't experienced in a long time.

 

[Deck Rickard]

You’re absolutely right. Box office is not an indicator of quality but it takes as much talent and vision to craft a movie that is meant to appeal to a wider audience as it does in making your own vision with a studio budget. If anything, I say the former is harder and more difficult to achieve.

Thanks. Yeah, if you compare something like BR 2049 to Guardians of the Galaxy, it’s easy to dismiss the latter as popcorn fare. But there are a similarities between the two that could have resulted in GOTG flopping the same way that BR did. Because GOTG was also an obscure sci-fi property with a small fanbase. It did have the Marvel name, which helped, but Marvel wasn’t quite the juggernaut yet that it ultimately became. Yet James Gunn and Marvel found a way to make a sci-fi epic that appealed to a very wide range of audiences. That’s something that Denis and WB couldn’t do with BR, a property that arguably had more name recognition among general audiences than GOTG did.

And I say that as someone who loves both movies and feel that each one has great characters and visuals and a lot of heart. But in the case of BR 2049, it feels a little bittersweet because the lackluster performance means that we probably will have to wait another 30 years before we see another BR movie, if it happens at all. That might not have been the case if the movie had been successful (the film itself even seemed to be setting up for a stunning third installment).

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah. When you have a franchise that has grossed about 25B dollars, people tend to notice. There's some jealousy I'm sure, but I'm sure that's not the entire story. They aren't meant to be cinematic masterpieces. They are meant to entertain and, whether people like it or not, they are very popular. When was the last time we noticed a filmmaker trashing Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter?

The difference is that AL:VH doesn't threaten the pride of auteurs who've staked at least some of their identity on the idea that they make "real art", and that real art is a thing that actually exists. Also that AL:VH didn't contribute to the end of the director-centric New Hollywood ( which probably wasn't *really* a thing anymore even by the 90s, but if everyone pretended otherwise. . . ), and directors don't exactly like the idea of not being treated as the center of existence and minor gods.

 

[InCali]

The difference is that AL:VH doesn't threaten the pride of auteurs who've staked at least some of their identity on the idea that they make "real art", and that real art is a thing that actually exists. Also that AL:VH didn't contribute to the end of the director-centric New Hollywood ( which probably wasn't *really* a thing anymore even by the 90s, but if everyone pretended otherwise. . . ), and directors don't exactly like the idea of not being treated as the center of existence and minor gods.

I might've stretched with AL:VH to make a point.

Some people exhibit a lot of jealousy and have the fragile egos. Agreed.

I hope his gets stroked with a successful Dune.

 

[InCali]

I'd take a Denis Villeneuve film over a Marvel film any day of the week, and he's totally not wrong about them, but he's also been anti-superheroes in general for years now and has always come across as a bit of a pretentious ass on the topic, imo. Which is fine, he's allowed to be that, lol.

Traitor!

Careful. I know people.....

 

[InCali]

Bite your tongue! That “Syfy garbage” helped introduce the world of Dune to a new audience that never read the book (and it was more faithful than the 1984 movie). TV CGI aside, the miniseries still holds up.

Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter was more true to the source material than was the 1984 movie.

 

[BatLobster]

Thanks. Yeah, if you compare something like BR 2049 to Guardians of the Galaxy, it’s easy to dismiss the latter as popcorn fare. But there are a similarities between the two that could have resulted in GOTG flopping the same way that BR did. Because GOTG was also an obscure sci-fi property with a small fanbase. It did have the Marvel name, which helped, but Marvel wasn’t quite the juggernaut yet that it ultimately became. Yet James Gunn and Marvel found a way to make a sci-fi epic that appealed to a very wide range of audiences. That’s something that Denis and WB couldn’t do with BR, a property that arguably had more name recognition among general audiences than GOTG did.

I'd have to somewhat disagree here. Regardless of the obscurity of the property, Guardians was marketed as a feel-good, quirky popcorn movie that the whole family can enjoy, with the strength of the Marvel brand behind it (it was still post-Avengers). It's designed as a 4 quadrant movie, while Blade Runner is more of a cult classic that cinephiles like and just a darker, more adult film. It's also a noir mystery, which makes it harder to market and I'm not sure if it was ever supposed to appeal for "everybody". You're selling the tone rather than the story, per se. The two couldn't be further apart IMO. It's just unfortunate that I do think there was an audience there for it, but the audience simply didn't show up to see it in theaters. Whether that is a marketing failure, or just simply a result of a movie that was really tricky to market effectively- I'm not sure. It's also just crazy to think that a movie with Ryan Gosling and Harrison Ford starring didn't do better, but that's just the age we're in. Unless you're The Rock or Tom Cruise, stars aren't really selling movie tickets anymore.

That said, I do agree that thus far, if Denis' ambition is to be a commercially viable filmmaker who works on a grand scale with massive budgets, he hasn't quite landed on his niche yet and where that balance is. Here's hoping Dune can become that thing for him- excited by the reactions I'm seeing in this thread so far.

 

[OutOfBoose]

After processing Dune a bit, I'll give it 8/10 (after one viewing). Great movie, but not without flaws that bring it down a bit. In the end, it's still a must watch, because we don't get movies like this often. I'd add it to the list of "blockbusters" of the past 5 years or so that impressed me: Fury Road, Dunkirk, Blade Runner 2049...

The good:
1) Scope is captured incredibly well. You feel the weight of events, the stakes, impact. Monstrous size of everything.
2) Soundtrack is fantastic. Atreides arrival to Arrakis is goosebumps. Sound design and rumbling lows are so good. Unless you have great home audio, it's better to experience it in a theater.
3) The gritty production design works well here. The world feels palpable in a sense of being descendant of our world. Thopters are freaking great.
4) Cinematography is often gorgeous.
5) Performances are great, but Jessica and Paul stood out to me. Chalamet held his own against proven pros. So good job.
6) Pacing is mostly great. I didn't feel the time. Perhaps at some moments it rushed a bit too much, skipping important build up... Mostly in the middle part.

The flaws for me is that sometimes exposition is rather blunt and clumsy, Leto-Jessica relationship could use couple more scenes and overall the middle part feels like A LOT was edited out. Sometimes scenes felt so isolated and random. I believe Yueh was underdeveloped. A lot of rather important stuff is completely unexplained or isn't mentioned and I have no idea how general audience will take it. I read the books, so my impression might be skewed.

 

[InCali]

After processing Dune a bit, I'll give it 8/10 (after one viewing). Great movie, but not without flaws that bring it down a bit. In the end, it's still a must watch, because we don't get movies like this often. I'd add it to the list of blockbusters of the past 5 years or so that impressed me: Fury Road, Dunkirk, Blade Runner 2049...

The good:
1) Scope is captured incredibly well. You feel the weight of events, the stakes, impact. Monstrous size of everything.
2) Soundtrack is fantastic. Atreides arrival to Arrakis is goosebumps. Sound design and rumbling lows are so good. Unless you have great home audio, it's better to experience it in a theater.
3) The gritty production design works well here. The world feels palpable in a sense of being a descendant of our world. Thopters are freaking great.
4) Cinematography is often gorgeous.
5) Performances are great, but Jessica and Paul stood out to me. Chalamet held his own against proven pros. So good job. Overall everyone were good.
6) Pacing is mostly great. I didn't feel the time. Perhaps at some moments it rushed a bit too much, skipping important build up... Mostly in the middle part.

The flaws for me is that sometimes exposition is rather blunt and clumsy, Leto-Jessica relationship could use couple more scenes and overall the middle part feels like A LOT was edited out. Sometimes scenes felt so isolated and random. I believe Yueh was underdeveloped and used not well. A lot of rather important stuff is completely unexplained or isn't mentioned and I have no idea how general audience will take it. I read the books, so my impression might be skewed.

The US Box Office is going to go a long way in determining whether or not Dune is considered a commercial success. I hope the same day home viewing on HBO Max doesn't hurt it horribly at the box office. Does HBO Max charge a premium for viewing their movies a la Disney+? I haven't watched a theatrical release on Max yet. If they don't, they are leaving a lot of money on the table.

 

[Mysteryman]

After processing Dune a bit, I'll give it 8/10 (after one viewing). Great movie, but not without flaws that bring it down a bit. In the end, it's still a must watch, because we don't get movies like this often. I'd add it to the list of "blockbusters" of the past 5 years or so that impressed me: Fury Road, Dunkirk, Blade Runner 2049...

The good:
1) Scope is captured incredibly well. You feel the weight of events, the stakes, impact. Monstrous size of everything.
2) Soundtrack is fantastic. Atreides arrival to Arrakis is goosebumps. Sound design and rumbling lows are so good. Unless you have great home audio, it's better to experience it in a theater.
3) The gritty production design works well here. The world feels palpable in a sense of being descendant of our world. Thopters are freaking great.
4) Cinematography is often gorgeous.
5) Performances are great, but Jessica and Paul stood out to me. Chalamet held his own against proven pros. So good job.
6) Pacing is mostly great. I didn't feel the time. Perhaps at some moments it rushed a bit too much, skipping important build up... Mostly in the middle part.

The flaws for me is that sometimes exposition is rather blunt and clumsy, Leto-Jessica relationship could use couple more scenes and overall the middle part feels like A LOT was edited out. Sometimes scenes felt so isolated and random. I believe Yueh was underdeveloped. A lot of rather important stuff is completely unexplained or isn't mentioned and I have no idea how general audience will take it. I read the books, so my impression might be skewed.

I have seen reviews from people who have not only seen the film but read the script as well.
They said that certain scenes were missing.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I have seen reviews from people who have not only seen the film but read the script as well.
They said that certain scenes were missing.

Makes sense. Well, the middle part is rather choppy. It's missing couple of vital subplots from the book and it makes some dramatic beats rather underwhelming. On top of that, Shadout Mapes and Yueh are throwaway plot devices, unfortunately.

 

[DKDetective]

I have seen reviews from people who have not only seen the film but read the script as well.
They said that certain scenes were missing.

Makes sense. Well, the middle part is rather choppy. It's missing couple of vital subplots from the book and it makes some dramatic beats rather underwhelming. On top of that, Shadout Mapes and Yueh are throwaway plot devices, unfortunately.

Hopefully, we get an extended cut on home video like with the LOTR trilogy.

 

[gohei_]

Hopefully, we get an extended cut on home video like with the LOTR trilogy.

Makes sense. Well, the middle part is rather choppy. It's missing couple of vital subplots from the book and it makes some dramatic beats rather underwhelming. On top of that, Shadout Mapes and Yueh are throwaway plot devices, unfortunately.

Totally agreed. This was a great movie, but I really hope there is an extended cut in the future. Certain characters needed a lot more screentime and certain scenes just needed more time to breathe.
I hope this does good money so we can get a part 2. By the way, I really liked the fact the title card said "Dune Part One".

Also,

Spoiler

when Paul and co are hiding out at the old water plant and are being attacked by the Sardukaur; when Duncan are fighting them you can clearly see that they all have shields. But the scene before that when the fremen emerge from the sand I could swear that none of them had any shields.
Did anyone else notice this?

 

[InCali]

Hopefully, we get an extended cut on home video like with the LOTR trilogy.

I haven't seen it yet of course, but if what people are saying is true, that could be really interesting. I just recently rewatched my extended version of LotR at home and liked it. Jackson really screwed up some stuff though.....Paths of the Dead for one.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Villeneuve has said that the theatrical version is his director's cut so at best we might get some deleted scenes on the home video release.

I saw Dune yesterday and I'm conflicted. As somebody who has read the book I enjoyed it quite a bit and it was easy to follow but thinking more on it, the film leaves out a lot of stuff that would perhaps make it resonate more with newcomers. Right now the film tells a story (with pretty thin characters) that everybody has seen before in one form or another. The 2.5-hour runtime just isn't enough to convey the more unique elements of Dune that would set it apart from everything that has come before it. And there's not enough action and adventure to compensate for it either. Even in Europe this will probably have a big drop-off at the box office after the first week.

 

[OutOfBoose]

In case of LOTR I didn't feel theatrical versions needed extra material. They were expertly done.

In case of Dune I WANT to see what was cut and if that material can improve the movie.

 

[Kev4000]

I didnt readed the book before and the first half hour was really hard for me to get all those informations right. It was better and better during its runtime though. While visual and directional stunning, the script has some issues.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

In case of LOTR I didn't feel theatrical versions needed extra material. They were expertly done.

In case of Dune I WANT to see what was cut and if that material can improve the movie.

There's a lot missing from the middle where the Artreides are actually in control of Arrakis

Edit: I see you reached the same conclusion..

 

[InCali]

Villeneuve has said that the theatrical version is his director's cut so at best we might get some deleted scenes on the home video release.

I saw Dune yesterday and I'm conflicted. As somebody who has read the book I enjoyed it quite a bit and it was easy to follow but thinking more on it, the film leaves out a lot of stuff that would perhaps make it resonate more with newcomers. Right now the film tells a story (with pretty thin characters) that everybody has seen before in one form or another. The 2.5-hour runtime just isn't enough to convey the more unique elements of Dune that would set it apart from everything that has come before it. And there's not enough action and adventure to compensate for it either. Even in Europe this will probably have a big drop-off at the box office after the first week.

This is one of my main gripes about movies adapted from books. It is very, very difficult to make a movie of the scope of something like LotR, Dune, Foundation, etc. and stay in any way true to the book. You can do it easier with something like "The World According to Garp". I personally found Jackson's retelling wanting in a lot of ways, but recognize that he had time constraints. Some of what he did was just flat out stupid; replacing Glorfindel with Arwen in Flight to the Fords comes to mind as being rather patronizing and the whole thing with Saruman dramatically diminished The Scouring of the Shire

I'm looking forward to Dune and will try to keep my expectations in line. I don't suspect I'll have trouble following it, but will likely have some of the same impressions being expressed here.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

This is one of my main gripes about movies adapted from books. It is very, very difficult to make a movie of the scope of something like LotR, Dune, Foundation, etc. and stay in any way true to the book. You can do it easier with something like "The World According to Garp". I personally found Jackson's retelling wanting in a lot of ways, but recognize that he had time constraints. Some of what he did was just flat out stupid; replacing Glorfindel with Arwen in Flight to the Fords comes to mind as being rather patronizing and the whole thing with Saruman dramatically diminished The Scouring of the Shire

I'm looking forward to Dune and will try to keep my expectations in line. I don't suspect I'll have trouble following it, but will likely have some of the same impressions being expressed here.

I never had a problem with that. I would have even been okay with her being at Helm's Deep tbh. *flame shield on*

 

[Pennywise]

'Dune' Costume Designers on Stillsuits and Each Planet's Design - Variety

 

[DarkKnight88]

I rarely feel the best book adaptations are those that take it word for word to the screen. They're usually rather stale. That's what the book is for. The best adaptations capture the spirit of the book. The feeling you get reading it.

 

[emc5466]

Dune will open in China on October 22nd.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Dune will open in China on October 22nd.

At least it's not coming out after the HBO Max release. What sucks is that Bond comes out on Oct 29 in China, giving Dune only a week of no competition.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

What a film.

Its like everything good about Blade Runner 2049 but with a much better story (I’ve never read the books btw).

I don’t know what ppl are talking bout when they say you don’t feel for the characters because I feel like I experienced all of Paul’s pressures and fears. The blow up in the tent thing was heartbreaking.

My only nitpick was the double beat of Jason Momoa stepping off of a ship and huggin Paul. Same dialog too. “Ma boy!”)

I could have watched part 2 right away, and it frustrates me that it was split. (That all being said, I still don’t know why WB spent so much on source material and a director that don’t have four quadrant appeal).