Sci-Fi Dune

[FVD]

Agree. The portrayal of Harkonnen was ridiculously over the top. Ian McNeice was better in the TV miniseries.

Ian McNeice was infinitely better than McMillan's despite McNeice's portrayal appearing a little more effeminate in nature. Fingers crossed, the next Baron will have that rumbling basso voice that the character has been known for as described in the book - and to finally get that opening scene with the Baron in the shadows with that globe of Arrakis on his table too. Which also makes me wonder if the look of the Baron should be saved until the film comes out, just to ramp our anticipations up? Peter Jackson did kinda do that with Billy Connolly's Dain prior to the release of The Battle of the Five Armies.

I thought Albert Finney would have made a fantastic Baron as he has that voice to pull him off, but I hear he has retired from acting now - to fight cancer.

 

[Schlosser85]

I could see Brian Cox as the Baron, though that seems like stereotypical casting.

 

[FVD]

I could see Brian Cox as the Baron, though that seems like stereotypical casting.

Cox would be excellent too.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

For we are now living in an era in which everyone can be outraged about everything, I wonder, given Dune themes and characters what could be the main point of indignation :
- religion ( if this part is in the movie which I doubt, for those who know I'm speaking about the Orange Catholic Bible and the fact that religion is used as a tool by the Bene Gesserit )
- The Baron hephebophila
- the heavy use of drugs
- the Fremen who use a lot of Arabic words or make up words with Arabic connotation
- other things which I can't think of

Of course, I hope that nothing like that will happen.

 

[Schlosser85]

I’m sure some people would claim the character of the Baron vilifies homosexuals.

 

[THORin]

I’m sure some people would claim the character of the Baron vilifies homosexuals.

Doesn't it? That's the feeling I got while reading the book, but I'm not a big Dune fan anyway.

 

[Schlosser85]

I don’t think having a homosexual villain necessarily means you’re saying he = all homosexuals. I mean, there’s good and bad gay peeople like anyone else.

 

[THORin]

I don’t think having a homosexual villain necessarily means you’re saying he = all homosexuals. I mean, there’s good and bad gay peeople like anyone else.

Of course. Did Herbert have any other homosexual characters in his books, though? I remember being surprised by that one, and I read a few books after that in the series but can't remember them well enough right now.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Considering the book was written in the 1960s, Vladimir Harkonnen really came off as a "villain who happens to be gay" rather than a "gay villain." In the God Emperor of Dune in the original series, Leto II's female army of the Fish Speakers are predominantly lesbians, as I recall. Herbert drops that as incidental knowledge, presenting it as neither a subject of exploitative interest or some kind of perversion. Again considering the time period that was a fairly progressive view of homosexuality.

 

[THORin]

In the God Emperor of Dune in the original series, Leto II's female army of the Fish Speakers are predominantly lesbians, as I recall.

Ah, the "army of lesbians" trope. Is that where it started? For the time, though, I guess it must have been pretty progressive.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I’m sure some people would claim the character of the Baron vilifies homosexuals.

Doesn't it? That's the feeling I got while reading the book, but I'm not a big Dune fan anyway.

I don’t think having a homosexual villain necessarily means you’re saying he = all homosexuals. I mean, there’s good and bad gay peeople like anyone else.

The thing is, The Baron is not an homosexual, not at all, he likes teenagers, that is not the same thing hence my post about "what "the Internet" can be outraged about ( because clueless about what is what ).

 

[THORin]

The thing is, The Baron is not an homosexual, not at all, he likes teenagers, that is not the same thing hence my post about "what "the Internet" can be outraged about ( because clueless about what is what ).

so...he's a pedophile. I remember that bit now, now that you mention it.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Considering the book was written in the 1960s, Vladimir Harkonnen really came off as a "villain who happens to be gay" rather than a "gay villain." In the God Emperor of Dune in the original series, Leto II's female army of the Fish Speakers are predominantly lesbians, as I recall. Herbert drops that as incidental knowledge, presenting it as neither a subject of exploitative interest or some kind of perversion. Again considering the time period that was a fairly progressive view of homosexuality.

The Fisk Speakers are not solely lesbians, they are just finer about it, many of Leto II female army had no issue mating with Ghola Idaho.
But, this subject is not introduced before The Emperor God of Dune ( which is one of the heaviest book in the series AFAIC ).

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

so...he's a pedophile. I remember that bit now, now that you mention it.

No, he is not a pedophile, he is an hephebophiale. Not the same thing.

Edit : just in case there is a doubt, it is not a matter of semantics, being gay or hetero, there is a difference between liking pre pubescent girl/guy and teenagers. I'm not saying it is ok in both case but it is not the same thing.

Edit : what I have done with my post about "Internet outrage" ...now I'm speaking on a very sensitive matter I don't like to discuss about for reasons I just said. Blame me.

 

[THORin]

No, he is not a pedophile, he is an hephebophiale. Not the same thing.

Oh, I thought that was a misspelling at first. What is a hephebophiale?

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Oh, I thought that was a misspelling at first. What is a hephebophiale?

In short, you like teenagers, from the Greek "Ephebus" a male who comes to age, 16+ years old at least, usually 18+ y/o. Common meaning, an "Epheb" is a young and beautiful man, not a child.

Edit : again, I'm not talking about right or wrong or agree with what it is.

Edit : I'm sorry to have bring this kind of subject on an entertaining discussion about a movie. I should have known better because I know better but it seams I didn't after all.

 

[FVD]

Oh, I thought that was a misspelling at first. What is a hephebophiale?

I've never even heard of that term before, so I had to look it up. I believe he meant to say "Ephebophilia" - when an adult is mostly or only sexually attracted to post-pubescent teenagers. I guess the film would be a good way of making people aware that such a condition exists. I think another example of this is old Herbert from Family Guy, who appears to be attracted to Chris.

 

[THORin]

I've never even heard of that term before, so I had to look it up. I believe he meant to say "Ephebophilia" - when an adult is mostly or only sexually attracted to post-pubescent teenagers. I guess the film would be a good way of making people aware that the condition exists. I think another example of this is old Herbert from Family Guy, who appears to be attracted to Chris.

I can honestly say I've never heard of this. It still falls into the pedophilia category for me, personally.

 

[Loki882]

Ian McNeice was infinitely better than McMillan's despite McNeice's portrayal appearing a little more effeminate in nature. Fingers crossed, the next Baron will have that rumbling basso voice that the character has been known for as described in the book - and to finally get that opening scene with the Baron in the shadows with that globe of Arrakis on his table too. Which also makes me wonder if the look of the Baron should be saved until the film comes out, just to ramp our anticipations up? Peter Jackson did kinda do that with Billy Connolly's Dain prior to the release of The Battle of the Five Armies.

I thought Albert Finney would have made a fantastic Baron as he has that voice to pull him off, but I hear he has retired from acting now - to fight cancer.

Yeah that scene was a fantastic introduction to his character and could look really cool on film if done right.

 

[Schlosser85]

So what actors would or could have that kind of voice?

 

[Guts]

What Ezra Miller wore to the fantastic beasts premiere. I think he wants to play Leto Atreides.

 

[David H.]

I’m liking the new Michelin Man.

 

[FVD]

So what actors would or could have that kind of voice?

James Earl Jones has the perfect voice for the Baron, but we need a Caucasian version. Or any good actor could pull off the basso voice so it doesn't necessarily need to be an actor who already has that kind of voice.

 

[FVD]

What Ezra Miller wore to the fantastic beasts premiere. I think he wants to play Leto Atreides.

Ezra Miller is like the human Dalek.

 

[THORin]

Ezra Miller is like the human Dalek.

That's exactly what I said.