Ender's Game

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I think it's the principle of the thing. You're kind of punishing everybody for the guy that wrote the book the movie is based on.
 
I wont lie by trailers alone I didn't think this looked very good at all and am pleasantly surprised by all the positive feedback I'm hearing. I could really care less if I agree with a director or actors personal views, when I go to the movies I go for the experience and the story not for anything else.
 
terry78 said:
I think it's the principle of the thing. You're kind of punishing everybody for the guy that wrote the book the movie is based on.
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That's exactly it. The first sentence. It's about principle. Those people who made the movie already got paid for their work on it. Throwing in "but if it fails then those salaried people won't have jobs" is a strawman argument at best. What if the movie bombed without anyone protesting? Did anyone say go see The Lone Ranger so the crew would continue to work? What about when John Carter or Battleship failed? Where was the sympathy then? I can list off dozens of movies that had huge promise and budgets that bombed but now only when people say to protest a movie based on a book by a bigot, is it suddenly "think of the crew."
 
Teelie said:
That's exactly it. The first sentence. It's about principle. Those people who made the movie already got paid for their work on it. Throwing in "but if it fails then those salaried people won't have jobs" is a strawman argument at best. What if the movie bombed without anyone protesting? Did anyone say go see The Lone Ranger so the crew would continue to work? What about when John Carter or Battleship failed? Where was the sympathy then? I can list off dozens of movies that had huge promise and budgets that bombed but now only when people say to protest a movie based on a book by a bigot, is it suddenly "think of the crew."
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No one goes to movies because they're worried about the fate of the studio staff. You go whether or not you want to, and whatever happens at the box office happens.

But a boycott is intended to hurt the profits, and the person everyone wants it to affect is the person who won't be affected by it. So a boycott doesn't make sense. The people it can hurt are the people who have nothing to do with Orson Scott Card.

I worked at Disney Publishing for three years. When I was there we had Baptist groups who organized boycotts against all of our products (theme parks, movies, toys, books, etc.) because the company extended health benefits to domestic partners of LGBT employees.

The boycott went nowhere, but explain to me why I should have been at risk of losing my job over something I had no part in making the decision for? Why should some kid working in an amusement park lose his job? Because those are the people who they cut loose when the money doesn't come in. And that'd not right. It affects the wrong people.

I understand why people are boycotting this movie. Card continues to say things that are absolutely vile. I just don't think the boycott does a damn thing to make an ugly situation better.
 
Should you expect people to support something they are against? No one is forcing anyone else not to go to the movie. If people want to say they aren't watching this movie and are vocal about it and why, what's the problem?

Do you think this boycott is going to actually affect the ticket sales one way or another? If you do then you have your own experience with the boycott of Disney doing nothing to see that it's the principle of the boycott more than it's effect that is important.

While I think those people were wrong they had a right to not support Disney and let everyone know why. And since it didn't do anything, clearly most people didn't care enough to join their protest.

Boycotting usually doesn't do a lot directly but indirectly it gets the word out to those who care about the issue. People still go see the movie, go to the amusement park, eat those chicken sandwiches but they hear about that boycott. It's more about voicing their disapproval than it is anything else.

And this is still one movie, not an entire studio. It's not an entire amusement park. Not an entire corporation.
 
Teelie said:
Should you expect people to support something they are against? No one is forcing anyone else not to go to the movie. If people want to say they aren't watching this movie and are vocal about it and why, what's the problem?

Do you think this boycott is going to actually affect the ticket sales one way or another? If you do then you have your own experience with the boycott of Disney doing nothing to see that it's the principle of the boycott more than it's effect that is important.

While I think those people were wrong they had a right to not support Disney and let everyone know why. And since it didn't do anything, clearly most people didn't care enough to join their protest.

Boycotting usually doesn't do a lot directly but indirectly it gets the word out to those who care about the issue. People still go see the movie, go to the amusement park, eat those chicken sandwiches but they hear about that boycott. It's more about voicing their disapproval than it is anything else.

And this is still one movie, not an entire studio. It's not an entire amusement park. Not an entire corporation.
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I've said (repeatedly now) that I completely support the right for people not to support something that offends them.

But there has been a organized effort to convince people to boycott the movie through a website, and events are being held elsewhere as alternates to seeing the movie. While the anger at Card is more than justified, and the events are donating money to worthy causes, the people that a boycott stands to hurt aren't the people they're targeting.

Not spending the money buying a ticket, or a chicken sandwich, or on passes to a theme park is more than voicing disapproval. It keeps potential profit from a parent company, whose employees (not their CEOs or movie stars) will be the ones punished when the money isn't rolling in.

Again, you have the right to take your stand and not support this. But in the end, the people who get hurt are more than likely not ones who caused the problem in the first place.
 
What's with people's inability to separate the content of a film from a creator's personal beliefs?

Lame.
 
Teelie said:
Read this, that is all I have left to contribute on this subject.

Orson Scott Card: Mentor, Friend, Bigot
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I'll admit that this article breaks the heart but offer a valuable lesson. It's tragic as it about how hard it is to move on when someone like Card was seen as a mentor and friend.

Everyone has their reasons to like or dislike Card, but this one story shows a very honest and human side. It's never that simple.
 
I think one of the comments said we give authors like Lovecraft and others who were blatantly sexist and racist passes for some reason because it was a "different time" as opposed to Card who is alive and well now. To an extent I get it.
 
I get it too.

It comes down to a personal choice. I love Woody Allen movies but I don't like actions in his personal life. Same thing with Polanski which was and is inexcusable.

But I choose to still like their art, and seperate their work from ther personal lives. This applies to crazy Mel Gibson too.

And I accept that people won't agree with me and that's fine. Everyone has their own reasons.
 
I could never enjoy Polanski's work, and I am disgusted with anyone who defends the man, or works with him.

Card is a bigot, but he's entitled to his stupid views. Polanski belongs in prison.
 
YEah, you're supporting their extracurricular activities when you support their work.
 
In my defense I haven't seen Polanski's new stuff, and proactively don't. But I can't wipe away Rosemary's Baby from my mind. I'm not an avocate for him nor would I call myself a 'hardcore fan'.
 
Teelie said:
Read this, that is all I have left to contribute on this subject.

Orson Scott Card: Mentor, Friend, Bigot
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This article confuses me. The date the book was written along with the age of the writer goes to show that she was old enough to have known about Card's beliefs when they were stated. She says that it was all hush hush but that isn't true as I knew about it pretty quickly and I'm not that huge of a fan. I'm queer and a sci-fi fan, it was big news. She became friends with him and was even eating dinner with the guy in college, but never knew anything about his very vocal politics. I know it's possible but just screams huh?


Please note I'm not attacking her views, it just comes across as weird to me as big a fan as she was that the news just slipped by her.
 
I think too it was just denial on her part. Well early on. It's a difference experience when you know the person and see him as a mentor type who molded her creavity and ironically help mold her sexual identity.
 
I read the book about 10-12 years ago and didn't know about Card's views until a few years after that. By then, I'd already read a few more of his books and had been enjoying them. Haven't bought another one since.

I still want to see the movie.
 
I just can't take people who think that it's somehow "principled" to boycott a piece of art because of a creator's personal values seriously when the issue they have with that author or artist is effectively that person's closemindedness about personal values.
 
Just deleted a few posts in here. Folks, discuss this issue without the name-calling, or don't discuss it at all.
 
The Guard said:
All this tells me is that one person had an emotional reaction to something.

It says nothing about the actual relevance to the content of the art itself.
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Well, there is the argument that it encourages genocide. But that's more of a discussion of the story itself, not a reason to boycott.
 
In fairness, mine was less about name-calling than it was about pointing out terrible spelling to go with the name-calling, but I understand.
 
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