Essential Reading: The Riddler

[returntovoid]

What are the best Riddler stories???

 

[theMan-Bat]

Batman #362 "When Riddled by the Riddler" (1983) by Doug Moench/Don Newton.

Doug Moench returned the Riddler to his general obsession with riddle-puzzles, not seen since the '40s. Paroled from prison, Edward Nigma was hired on at a winery, where he rotated the aging wine bottles so that the sediment collected on the cork instead of at the bottom of the bottle--a process known as "riddling the wine." Nigma held the position only until he could figure out a new puzzle-oriented crime. When a video crew arrived at the winery to do a news story on the business, he decided to attack the Enigma game show (video taped at a theater in Gotham City) and steal the prize money. Moench had the Riddler's actions dictated by puzzle-homonyms, another story element not seen since the '40s (as when the Riddler tripped a payroll guard with a cane--"a cross stick"). The Riddler took the bus to the theater, and planned to hijack a bus to leave; in other words, he would "re-bus". On stage, the Riddler burst out of the drum in which the show's questions were contained (a "con un-drummed") and was armed with a machine gun with which to "riddle" his attackers with bullets. The Riddler lures Batman to an Amusement Park full of strange giant props (another tribute to Bill Finger--weird giant props were a signature of Batman co-creator Bill Finger).

Batman #263 "Riddler on the Move" (1975) by Denny O'Neil/Ernie Chua.

The Riddler accosts pedestrians on the street with riddles. If they get the riddles wrong, he robs them. The Riddler established himself as the head of a nationwide criminal employment agency, supplying specific talents for specific jobs. The Riddler gives Batman the answer to a riddle, leaving Batman to guess the actual riddle. The answer: "A centipede with fallen arches." The most interesting thing about this story, a true testimony to the Riddler's sense of fair play, was the death-trap he used on Batman. Batman was standing on a platform, five crossbows aimed directing at him. If he tried to step off they would immediately fire; if he didn't, they would fire anyway. Six levers were within his reach marked with letters A through F. The riddle: "What letter is like death?"

 

[Fledermaus]

Batman 452-454. Dark Knight, Dark City. Awesome.

 

[The Joker]

Batman 452-454. Dark Knight, Dark City. Awesome.

I never got the big deal about those issues.

 

[Bruce Malone]

I seem to encounter the riddler being depicted as kind of a wimp in some of the batman man stories notably the ones by Loeb. What do u guys think of this depiction?

 

[returntovoid]

Is The Riddler's first appearance, any good??? Or is it light/campy???

 

[theMan-Bat]

Is The Riddler's first appearance, any good??? Or is it light/campy???

Riddler's 1948 first appearance was under the Editorial Advisory Board Whitney Ellsworth had created so it was mandatorily light. DC editor Whitney Ellsworth created an Editorial Advisory Board in 1941 trying to make Batman and all of the other DC characters as wholesome and tame as possible to protect DC from the growing criticisms of comic books in the 1940s and 1950s by Sterling North, Fredric Wertham, Greshon Legman, and the U.S. Senate which lead to the 1954 Comics Code Authority forcing E.C., Gleason, Fox, Fiction House and Quality out of business. Links that talk about the Editorial Advisory Board: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8580/Hist2.html
http://www.english.ufl.edu/imagetext/archives/exhibit1/dc.shtml
These book excerpts are from Comic Book Nation about the Editorial Advisory Board DC had:

And the effect on Batman:

 

[returntovoid]

Riddler's 1948 first appearance was under the Editorial Advisory Board Whitney Ellsworth had created so it was mandatorily light. DC editor Whitney Ellsworth created an Editorial Advisory Board in 1941 trying to make Batman and all of the other DC characters as wholesome and tame as possible to protect DC from the growing criticisms of comic books in the 1940s and 1950s by Sterling North, Fredric Wertham, Greshon Legman, and the U.S. Senate which lead to the 1954 Comics Code Authority forcing E.C., Gleason, Fox, Fiction House and Quality out of business. Links that talk about the Editorial Advisory Board: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8580/Hist2.html
http://www.english.ufl.edu/imagetext/archives/exhibit1/dc.shtml
These book excerpts are from Comic Book Nation about the Editorial Advisory Board DC had:

And the effect on Batman:

When did this Board come to an end??? When Julius Schwartz came in as editor???

 

[Ryan]

I love the look of the Riddler in theMan-Bat's posting from Batman #362 "When Riddled by the Riddler" (1983) by Doug Moench/Don . Loeb and Sale's work are probably my favourite Bat story tellers of all time but I did not enjoy their depiction of the Riddler, either in look or as a character. I'm also not enjoying the recently "reformed" Riddler either. He's such an interesting character and yet I don't think there have been any definitive stories (that I know of) like the Killing Joker that have totally defined his character. I hate the comparisons that suggest that he nothing more then a "Joker-lite"
If someone can suggest some must read Riddler stories, please share!

 

[theMan-Bat]

When did this Board come to an end??? When Julius Schwartz came in as editor???

After the Comics Code Authority was created in 1954 DC no longer had the need for their own Editorial Advisory Board and after the Comics Code Authority was created the people that had been attacking comic books turned their attention elsewhere finding new targets to be offended by and try to ban in the '50s with the beginning of rock and roll music, Playboy magazines, Bettie Page erotica, etc. The liberation of DC began in the 1970s with Neal Adams, Denny O'Neil, Elliot S. Maggin, Len Wein, Bernie Wrightson, Michael Fleisher, Jim Aparo and Marshall Rogers taking a stand against the censorship Comics Code Authority and liberating DC in the 1970s with dark and gritty groundbreaking material which challenged and changed the Comics Code Authority.
Neal Adams explained how he started bringing back the dark creature of the night Batman, "I went into [DC Editor] Julie Schwartz’ office and I said, “I’d sure like to try a Batman story.” And Julie said, “Get the hell out of my office.” I went down the hall to Murray Boltinoff’s office. He edited a book called The Brave and the Bold. Murray wanted me to work on anything. He was scrounging around for some kind of thing for me to do with him. I said to him, “You’ve got this comic book called Brave and the Bold where you have different heroes teaming up with Batman. Can I do an issue or two of that?” He said, “No problem. Next one up, you’ve got it.” I said, “Only one thing, I don’t want to change anything in the writing, I just want to every once in a while change locations and time of day.” I wanted to change the time to night because it just seems silly to have Batman walking around in his underwear in the daytime. Murray said, “That’s fine, no problem.” So, I took the script and I started drawing Brave and the Bold. After a couple months, Julie Schwartz corners me at DC Comics, he has a handful of letters and he stops me in the hallway and he says, “How come all these fans say the only Batman at DC Comics is in Brave and Bold?” I said, “Well, Julie, in Brave and Bold he’s really Batman. He is not walking around in the daytime in his underwear, he is skulking around at night.” He said, “What makes you think you know how to do Batman?” I said, “Julie, it’s not me who knows how to do Batman, it’s me and every kid in America who knows what Batman ought to be. The problem at DC Comics is that no one knows what Batman is.” He said, “Get back here. Now you are going to be drawing Batman.” Julie opened the door for me to do Batman. He asked me if I would like to work with Denny O’Neil. I said that would be fine. He seemed to be a nice young man. So, I started doing Batman with Denny."
http://www.comicsbulletin.com/features/111091948245775.htm
Neal Adams explained how the Comics Code was changed, "'We've got to do something on drug addiction,' but of course it's against the Comic Code, so I went home and I did that first cover [Green Lantern #85 (1971)]. You know, with Speedy [shooting up heroin]. I penciled it and I inked it and I put the lettering in and I brought it in and I gave it to Julie Schwartz and his hand grabbed it very briefly and then he dropped it on the desk as if it were on fire. He said, "We can't do this." I said, "Well, we ought to." He said, "You know we can't do this. It's against everything." I said, "Well, this is where we're going. This is what we ought to be doing." So he said, "You're out of your mind. Once again, you're being a pain in the ass." So I took it into Carmine [Infantino]. Carmine didn't know what to make of it. I took it into the Kinney people, who were now running DC Comics and were sort of used to this and of course they dropped it like a hot potato. I said, "You know guys this is where we ought to be going with this." "Oh, no, Neal, please, just go and work. Leave us alone. You can't do this." And of course Julie had a twinkle in his eye, but still he knew it was ********, it wasn't going to happen. He said, "Why did you finish the cover?" I said, "Well, because it's going to get printed." "No, this will never get printed." Anyway, I make a visit over to Marvel Comics a week or so later and somebody comes over to me, probably Roy [Thomas] or somebody, I don't know and says, "You know what Stan's [Lee] doing?" I said, "What?" He says, "He had this guy, this drug addict popping pills and he like walks off a roof." I said, "Stan had a guy popping pills and he walks off a roof? That's kind of a unique situation." (Laughter.) "I don't exactly know where you're going to find that, you know I don't know who's going to be walking off a roof." "Well, you know Stan read some kind of article about a guy who went off a roof." "Oh, okay. Sure. All right. Whatever." And he said, "So we did it and we sent it over to the Comics Code and the Comics Code rejected it, they said he has to change it." So I said, "Well, what's Stan gonna do?" "He's not gonna change it." "You're kidding." He says, "No. Not gonna change it. We're just gonna send it out, it's ready. It's going to be on the stands next week. Week after next." "Really? No ****. What about the Comics Code seal?" "Not gonna put the Comics Code seal on it." "Really?" So sure enough, he sends it out and I go over to Marvel Comics since I heard it was out and I go over and I say, "What happened?" He said, "Nobody said anything." "Nobody said anything?" "Nobody even noticed that the seal wasn't on there." "No ****. Nobody even noticed?" So I go back to DC, you know, and now that word had gotten out, oh ****. Now try to imagine DC, they've got this cover, right? Could have scooped Stan with something real and solid. They screwed up. So within a day or two they call a meeting of the Comics Code Authority. Remember the Comics Code Authority is bought for and paid for by the comic book companies. It doesn't exist independently. It's a self-regulating organization. So DC calls Marvel, they call Archie, they go and have this emergency meeting. "We're going to revise the Comics Code!" Okay, within a week they revised the Code and within a week and a half they tell me and Denny to go ahead with the story."
http://www.wtv-zone.com/silverager/interviews/adams_2.shtml
About returning the murderer Joker in "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge" (1973) Denny O'Neil said, "I wondered if the Comics Code would let us get away with that many murders in a story, but again, you could never predict the Comics Code, but we didn't hear a peep from them. But there's no point in doing a maniacal clown who isn't maniacal. Then you've just got a clown. Big deal. And the Joker had started out, no matter who had created him; three people have claimed him (chuckle), but it was a great idea for a villain. I think in all of the trickster characters, in all of the literature of the world there is no better one than The Joker, but he had to be homicidal and insane for it to work as a story. So that's what we did. But at the time, "Okay, you've got a homicidal maniac and he has to be the protagonist 12 times a year." I was never satisfied with the work I did for Joker. Given the Comics Code there was just no way to make it work. He had to be Hannibal Lecter in order to be consistent and logical and be The Joker, and he couldn't be that back then. Now with the freedom comics guys have they could probably make it work."
http://www.wtv-zone.com/silverager/interviews/oneil_2.shtml
Bernie Wrightson said, "We were about a year into the Swamp Thing series at the time and I remember going up to the office and Joe [Orlando] was sitting at his desk laughing. I said, "What's so funny?" He said, "I just got a call from the Comics Code Authority about Swamp Thing." I said, "What was the problem?" He said, "They just saw (I'll say) issue #6, and they're just noticing for the first time that Swamp Thing's not wearing anything." Their term for it…I think he had a letter, and in the letter, their term for it was, "This character is undraped, and we can't have this." So Joe had to talk with them and I think he had to go through every issue, panel by panel and show them that we weren't up to something, and point out to them that this is a non-human character. This guy is a monster, and every time you see him, that whole part of him, his whole mid-section is always in shadow. It's always black, and there's nothing going on. I think they grudgingly let him alone after that, but I just thought that was very funny."
http://www.wtv-zone.com/silverager/interviews/wrightson.shtml

 

[returntovoid]

I seem to encounter the riddler being depicted as kind of a wimp in some of the batman man stories notably the ones by Loeb. What do u guys think of this depiction?

Loeb portrayed Riddler more as a supporting villain rather than the main threat.

 

[mothy]

Loeb portrayed Riddler more as a supporting villain rather than the main threat.

that he did.

what do i think of this depiction? well, it's my least favourite. i prefer my riddler not be pathetic, wimpy or laughed at. i prefer him as a maniacal psychopath of genius intellect. and to be respected.

however, different characterisations are healthy and variety is good.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

My favorite Riddler story is ''Riddle Me This'' Legends Of The Dark Knight #185-#189

By far the most badass the Riddler has been,both aesthetically and psychologically.

 

[ronny]

Any scans of this miraculous comic?