Geoffrey Chaucer, T. S. Elliot, ....Marshall Mathers??

[Dark Sentinel]

I was having a conversation with a friend, and we both write rap lyrics so naturally we talked about different artists. Eminem came up and I had a crazy (if remotely plausible) question: could Eminem, based on his entire body of work, be mentioned in the same sentence as some of the most notable poets of the 20th Century, or the English language for that matter?

I personally think it's possible in time, given some of his material ("Stan", "Cleanin' Out My Closet", "Lose Yourself" to name a few noteworthy singles) but I think this is a viable discussion piece. This IS a Books & Music thread, right?


Discuss

 

[The Chairman]

No.

The only 20th century songwriter who might possibly rank amongst the great poets throughout history is Dylan, and even him I'd hesitate to put up there.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Interesting thought. Before one can actually answer that, we'd have to decide whether or not song lyrics can be considered poetry in the classical sense. Sure, most lyrics rhyme, but they typically aren't written in such a way that makes them viable poems on their own.

Do literature and language experts consider lyrics without music as poetry?

 

[Mario_Galaxy]

Doubt it. The reason being that poetry of Chaucer and Elliot's time is waaay different than modern day songwriting. Doesn't discredit Eminem though, I just think it would be apples to oranges. I'd agree that Dylan would probably be the default guy to get grouped in with them, and even that seems a bit like a jump.

I'm curious where Jim Morrison would stand on this subject, considering he was a poet first and foremost.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Interesting, but I think I should clear myself up a bit. I wasn't comparing Eminem to Chaucer or Elliot per se, but I do think based on his body of work that it's possible he can be grouped in with them as one of the notable artists that really impacted the world through his work, especially recently. I'm not calling him a poet (Eminem himself doesn't consider himself to be one, a la "Almost Famous", who'd've known he'd grow to be a poet and not know it?). So in time I think perhaps the next generation could be studying his lyrical style in universities or what have you. It's the kind of notoriety where you can just say "Eminem" or "Marshall Mathers" and people know exactly who you're talking about.

 

[Max J Power]

He's certainly one of the best artists for lyrical study (which I think of as different from poetry, since lyrics were made to be set to music). I can't think of anyone who puts more raw, straight-from-the-mind-to-the-page emotion into their lyrics.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I would have to say at best, only a very small handful 4-5 songs of Ems could be discussed as having poetic value or be discussed being classified as being poetic and even then it is probably only versus from those songs.