Hawley's Doctor Doom Film

[Spider-Aziz]

In general, prequels about how a major villain came to be have an extremely poor track record when it comes to films. It just isn't a story arc that a lot of people are interested in. They want to see Darth Vader. Not the whiny kid who eventually becomes Darth Vader.

Lucky for us, Doctor Doom is a ruthless guy growing up, not a whiny angsty prick. Darth Vader being inspired by him doesn't mean we'll see the same thing we got with the prequels, right?

I personally prefer them to make a Silver Surfer movie but we'll see.

I actually agree.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I don't know about that. It was known that they could use the Skrulls for awhile but not specific named Skrulls. The reason why the Skulls were changed to the Chitauri in the 1st Avengers was because they didn't want them to be reduced to cannon fodder not because of the rights. And they couldn't focus on the who the Skrulls were in a movie that already had a lot of stuff going on in it.

Yes this is correct. There's at least one quote out there somewhere where both Feige and Whedon confirmed this.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Well if that's true, that would mean they're likely still stalking these threads. And if that's the case, they should see that we don't want a Doom film from them.

There is certainly less enthusiasm for a Fox Doom film than there was for Deadpool after the leaked footage.

And the simple fact that Fox should understand by now is there would be more enthusiasm for any film based on an X-Men character (or characters) then there will ever be for an FF character or characters.

Doesn't matter. Fox gonna Fox.

 

[Raiden]

I think Fox really got some people's benefit of the doubt even though except for their R-rated superhero movies their record has been rather mediocre. Their FF reboot already failed spectacularly, where the director pretty much got himself blacklisted in Hollywood, and now they want to trust Fox to give us a good Dr. Doom movie? They already tried Doom in all 3 FF movies and none of them were any good; why should this solo movie be any different?

 

[Panacea]

I think the vast majority of the people who go to see movies in the cinema have no idea which studio is putting the content out. They watch the trailers, listen to the hype, and if it looks and sounds good then they go and see it. They couldn't care less who is making it.

 

[the gael]

I think the vast majority of the people who go to see movies in the cinema have no idea which studio is putting the content out. They watch the trailers, listen to the hype, and if it looks and sounds good then they go and see it. They couldn't care less who is making it.

It's the common case, but the "uncommon" production of Tank's FFINO has raised the curtain on the FF cinematic rights. It's absolutely fantastic how the average cinephilic guy know that the movie was a Roger Corman attempt.
It's why the movie, if produced, won't make much at the BO

 

[Panacea]

The average movie-goer has absolutely no clue about any of that.

 

[Stark Bauer]

The average movie-goer has absolutely no clue about any of that.

The average movie goer remembers FFINO. The average movie goer is smarter than you think. They tend to check RT and ask their kids and people
Like us and we usually sAy "that's not the real marvel" it's Marvel fox Mar el Studios has a reputation and brand recognition.

If Fox produced a Silver Surfer movie written by James Gunn and directed by Zack Snyder I would watch it lol

 

[Panacea]

The average movie goer remembers FFINO. The average movie goer is smarter than you think. They tend to check RT and ask their kids and people
Like us and we usually sAy "that's not the real marvel" it's Marvel fox Mar el Studios has a reputation and brand recognition.

Why would the average person care about anything other than whether the movie is good or not? Plenty of people went to see Deadpool and Logan knowing they weren't in the MCU. Why? Because they looked like good movies. The same will happen if Fox's Doctor Doom movie looks good. You can count on that.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I think Fox really got some people's benefit of the doubt even though except for their R-rated superhero movies their record has been rather mediocre. Their FF reboot already failed spectacularly, where the director pretty much got himself blacklisted in Hollywood, and now they want to trust Fox to give us a good Dr. Doom movie? They already tried Doom in all 3 FF movies and none of them were any good; why should this solo movie be any different?

I don't think Fox should get any benefit of the doubt for a Fantastic Four movie. That being said, while I still have trepidation, I can see people giving Noah Hawley the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't think Fox should get any benefit of the doubt for a Fantastic Four movie. That being said, while I still have trepidation, I can see people giving Noah Hawley the benefit of the doubt.

Fox won't get any benefit of the doubt from me (and, I suspect, many other people like me who would otherwise be the primary audience for a Doom film), and they've got no one to blame but themselves.

It's like a cheating husband who has lied over and over again to his wife. Even if he's finally telling the truth this time, she's not going to believe him.

I have a lot of respect for Hawley, but he has no experience with feature films, he's not a director and he's not going to do this film alone. He's only going to be one cog in the Fox machine.

After Chronicle, I had far more reason to trust Josh Trank than I have reason to trust Noah Hawley now... and we all saw how that turned out.

Fox is going to have to say and do everything perfectly on this (if they actually do it and they probably won't) for me to even think about giving it a chance after how badly they have screwed the FF in the past.

 

[Zarex]

Why would the average person care about anything other than whether the movie is good or not? Plenty of people went to see Deadpool and Logan knowing they weren't in the MCU. Why? Because they looked like good movies. The same will happen if Fox's Doctor Doom movie looks good. You can count on that.

"Because they looked like good movies" isn't the only reason. Otherwise, why use the Marvel branding? Have Hawley work on an original story about a peasant who takes over a kingdom and is corrupted in the process. Put the Marvel licensing fee back into the budget.

Deadpool and Logan have both been Top 10 Marvel characters in terms of comics, merchandise and video games for decades and folks were clamoring to see Wade and a version of Old Man Logan on the big screen. The interest in a cinematic of Doom's backstory pales in comparison, and Victor's THREE awful big screen depictions haven't helped. Like FFINO, this one is dead before it gets started. You can count on that.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

"Because they looked like good movies" isn't the only reason. Otherwise, why use the Marvel branding? Have Hawley work on an original story about a peasant who takes over a kingdom and is corrupted in the process. Put the Marvel licensing fee back into the budget.

Deadpool and Logan have both been Top 10 Marvel characters in terms of comics, merchandise and video games for decades and folks were clamoring to see Wade and a version of Old Man Logan on the big screen. The interest in a cinematic of Doom's backstory pales in comparison, and Victor's THREE awful big screen depictions haven't helped. Like FFINO, this one is dead before it gets started. You can count on that.

Exactly. As I've mentioned before, the idea that there's a "general audience" out there that is just a huge mass of ignorant blank-slates is a complete myth.

If that's the case, why screw around with the FF at all? Just contact the author of any decent book series, buy the rights for $10,000 and make a good movie. As long as it gets good reviews and has good word of mouth, it's sure to sell a $billion world-wide, right?

No. Of course not, because it's all about name recognition and interest in the characters. And while Doctor Doom and the Fantastic Four may still have name recognition, Fox has made sure it's not positive name recognition. The interest in seeing another Fox Dr. Doom film is close to zero at this moment from the people who matter.

People who don't know who Doom is aren't interested because they don't know or care about the character. And people who do know Doom are also familiar, to some extent, with what's going on and don't want another Fox abomination.

Now that Fox has completely turned off that latter group, there's no market left.

 

[NHawk19]

The Marvel name by itself generates buzz among the "general audience". The other issue is that as Marvel becomes a larger and larger grossing name, more and more people are watching, and buying/renting movies to catch up. This makes the blank slate sale even harder because an increasing number of people are not only following MCU but expecting anything with a Marvel banner to be connected to it.

Fox wants to capitalize on that before Marvels full developed universe eclipses their options by substituting lesser known characters for the names they rented. X-men would definitely be the easier way to go on a separate universe. However, Fox's problem has been and continues to be they don't know what to do with the names they bought the rights to. They like DC need a dedicated division to get it right and reign it in.

I hope the Doom movie is a negotiation tactic or at least a way to approach Marvel. Anyway you slice it though we're getting closer and closer to the expectation that all Marvel will be connected, especially now that Spider-man has been established.

Fox would be smart to try and get on board with this somehow.

 

[Xeno]

I don't think Fox should get any benefit of the doubt for a Fantastic Four movie. That being said, while I still have trepidation, I can see people giving Noah Hawley the benefit of the doubt.

How many people even know who Hawley is, much less care? Outside of geek circles he doesn't have the kind of rep that would get anyone excited to see his work.

Fox is just going to **** out another low budget, low quality abomination to keep the rights. Using Doom prior to his gaining his armor and powers is an easy way to do that without having to spend a lot of money. They could film it in a cheap eastern Europe location the way Syfy does to trim costs. Add a low rent director and a cast of unknowns and they're set.

 

[Zarex]

Venom is slated for release next October, and the response to that film will likely play a role in whether or not FOX green lights Doom: Triumphant. If it craters, as I suspect, we may get that Franklin and Valeria flick that absolutely no one is asking for.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The Marvel name by itself generates buzz among the "general audience". The other issue is that as Marvel becomes a larger and larger grossing name, more and more people are watching, and buying/renting movies to catch up. This makes the blank slate sale even harder because an increasing number of people are not only following MCU but expecting anything with a Marvel banner to be connected to it.

Fox wants to capitalize on that before Marvels full developed universe eclipses their options by substituting lesser known characters for the names they rented. X-men would definitely be the easier way to go on a separate universe. However, Fox's problem has been and continues to be they don't know what to do with the names they bought the rights to. They like DC need a dedicated division to get it right and reign it in.

I hope the Doom movie is a negotiation tactic or at least a way to approach Marvel. Anyway you slice it though we're getting closer and closer to the expectation that all Marvel will be connected, especially now that Spider-man has been established.

Fox would be smart to try and get on board with this somehow.

Just look what Marvel did with Civil War. They introduced a relatively unknown character (Black Panther), and they reintroduced a familiar character that had been damaged by bad films (Spider-man). Both characters and both films benefited in a huge way from Civil War.

With 10 minutes of Reed Richards/Victor Von Doom screen-time in an upcoming film, they could completely reinvigorate interest in the Fantastic Four.

Fox may not like the fact that Marvel can make money with FF while they can't, but continuing to throw money away on the FF won't change that.

 

[Zarex]

Just look what they did with Civil War. They introduced a relatively unknown character (Black Panther), and they reintroduced a familiar character that had been damaged by bad films (Spider-man). Both characters and both films benefitted in a huge way from Civil War.

A friend of mine (not me, of course) watched the bootleg Infinity War trailer, and two of the biggest audience cheers were for Spidey and T'Challa. Spidey is understandable, but the Black Panther was introduced last year and his solo film isn't until next year. It's amazing how Feige and company can turn great characters into movie stars. While FOX, outside of Deadpool and Logan, has put much of the FF and X-Men franchise on the D-list.

 

[ADollarADay]

A friend of mine (not me, of course) watched the bootleg Infinity War trailer, and two of the biggest audience cheers were for Spidey and T'Challa. Spidey is understandable, but the Black Panther was introduced last year and his solo film isn't until next year. It's amazing how Feige and company can turn great characters into movie stars. While FOX, outside of Deadpool and Logan, has put much of the FF and X-Men franchise on the D-list.

Forget Panther and getting SM back on the good side. The fact that a movie with Dr. Strange, a completely unknown character to the GA who had only previously been casually mentioned in a Captain America movie, outgrossed X-Men Apocalypse both domestic and WW and outgrossed every X-Men movie worldwide outside of Deadpool and DOFP speaks volumes on what MS can actually do. Both the FF and XM would be much bigger than they currently are if they were under Feige.

 

[Mike Murdock]

"Because they looked like good movies" isn't the only reason. Otherwise, why use the Marvel branding? Have Hawley work on an original story about a peasant who takes over a kingdom and is corrupted in the process. Put the Marvel licensing fee back into the budget.

In fairness, even if they don't care about the Marvel branding for this specific movie (although I suspect that's a factor) they certainly want to preserve their right to put the Marvel branding in future films.

How many people even know who Hawley is, much less care? Outside of geek circles he doesn't have the kind of rep that would get anyone excited to see his work.

Outside geek circles, I suspect most people don't even know this movie is being made yet. To my knowledge, I don't think there's even been an official announcement, just comments from Noah Hawley. Given that, I would take a guess and say 50% of the people who know this movie is being made knows who's making it, assuming that half the people saw the headline and never clicked on the article, the other half clicked on the article.

 

[NHawk19]

Just look what Marvel did with Civil War. They introduced a relatively unknown character (Black Panther), and they reintroduced a familiar character that had been damaged by bad films (Spider-man). Both characters and both films benefited in a huge way from Civil War.

With 10 minutes of Reed Richards/Victor Von Doom screen-time in an upcoming film, they could completely reinvigorate interest in the Fantastic Four.

Fox may not like the fact that Marvel can make money with FF while they can't, but continuing to throw money away on the FF won't change that.

As I'm writing this SM:H is in it's 3rd week of release and sitting near $259mill Domestic. It's already beat the total domestic run of ASM2 ($202M) and set to beat ASM ($262) shortly. MCU is what did that.

I'd say that's what Fox should be looking at with FF4 related items. Yeah Marvel makes money but so do they, and they get help. They could even negotiate help with the X-men Universe in possibly as stand alone or alternate dimension. This could ensure they're not to closely replicating story lines, i.e. what DC and Marvel did with BvS and Civil War.

Anything other than that and you're right I think they're throwing good money after bad.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

As I'm writing this SM:H is in it's 3rd week of release and sitting near $259mill Domestic. It's already beat the total domestic run of ASM2 ($202M) and set to beat ASM ($262) shortly. MCU is what did that.

I'd say that's what Fox should be looking at with FF4 related items. Yeah Marvel makes money but so do they, and they get help. They could even negotiate help with the X-men Universe in possibly as stand alone or alternate dimension. This could ensure they're not to closely replicating story lines, i.e. what DC and Marvel did with BvS and Civil War.

Anything other than that and you're right I think they're throwing good money after bad.

I have a strong feeling that's exactly what Fox wants, a Sony-type shared deal on FF, and that's exactly why they asked Hawley to work on a script - to put some pressure on Marvel to talk about a deal.

But I think Marvel is a little calmer than most people around here, and they probably realize they hold all the cards. They're likely just hanging back to see how things go and won't get nervous until Fox actually starts spending money.

If Marvel does, at some point, agree to a shared deal, I'd expect it to be one that is more one-sided in Marvel's favor than the Sony deal since Fox has less to offer.

An interesting note also (that hasn't really been discussed in any detail); Hawley is the one who did the joint Marvel/Fox Legion series.

Is it possible that Fox is using him specifically because of that connection and they think he might convince Marvel to work together with Fox on a Doom film and beyond?

OR, is it even possible something is already in the works? Feige's comments (if we take them on their face) would seem to indicate they weren't talking, but it's possible that Fox said something like: "Hey, we're thinking about having Noah Hawley work on a Dr. Doom film. Once he has a script, would you like to take a look to see if this is something we can do as a joint venture in a shared universe." If they did that, I think Marvel would at least be willing to talk.

 

[NHawk19]

^ If they did collaborate for a Dr. Doom film, now would be the time. Latveria arises or becomes a bigger player following the events in Sokovia and implementation of the accords. Black Panther is ushering in the use of other countries.

Timing wise this works really well in an MCU setting. The more mystical stuff could potentially be fall-out from IFW. Then Galactus and surfer as the major event at the end of the next 3 phases. . . .

Also of note for any Fox official reading this. With Marvel's help SM:H was made for $55M less than AMS and will out gross it. . . Just saying.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Smart of FOX. They have Marvel's top villain, essentially their Joker, and he's been languishing because they haven't gotten him or the Fantastic 4 right. The way to go is to adapt Ed Brubaker's Books of DOOM and plant the seeds for a Fantastic 4 spinoff.

I think most will agree that the best part of X-Men First Class was Magneto's origin and subplot. This would essentially be the template for the Dr. Doom movie. As for the F4, introduce Reed Richards during Victor's time studying in the US. And then towards the end of the film have him and his family returning from a wormhole from space and Doom, having already conquered Latveria from King Vladimir, vows to exact revenge on Reed for the damage that was done to his face and for stealing his research to achieve fame.

I'm looking foward to this movie. FOX is on a hotstreak and I'd rather focus on what they should get right rather than what they've gotten wrong in the past.

 

[Zarex]

I think most will agree that the best part of X-Men First Class was Magneto's origin and subplot. This would essentially be the template for the Dr. Doom movie.

Not for me. I would have preferred an X-Men movie that focused on the X -Men rather than Nazi Hunting Magneto. And FC was a BO disappointment coming off an X-Men series that was much more successful than their FF efforts. I don't think FOX is being smart at all.

I'm looking foward to this movie. FOX is on a hotstreak and I'd rather focus on what they should get right rather than what they've gotten wrong in the past.

What hot streak? For every Logan there's an Apocalypse. For every Deadpool there's a FFINO. FOX's Marvel adaptations are up angle down at best.