How Will The Civil War End?

[Trask]

Actually, vigilantesim itself is not illegal. Some of the things that vigilantes are known to do are illegal, but the act of being a vigilante is, in of itself, legal.

Being a vigilante means taking the law into your own hands because you feel that the law or law inforcment agency is unable or unwilling to do what you feel is neccessary, and for obvious reasons it is against the law to do so.

 

[The Question]

No, it's not. There are no laws prohibiting someone from putting on a mask, going around their neighborhood at night, and stopping muggings. None at all. Now, certain things often equated with vigilantes are illegal, such as breaking and entering, torturing people for information, and killing. However, beinga vigilante, in of itself, is not illegal.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I suppose, but how does one stop a mugger without some physical force or anything? Hitting a mugger would still be battery.

 

[Trask]

No, it's not. There are no laws prohibiting someone from putting on a mask, going around their neighborhood at night, and stopping muggings. None at all. Now, certain things often equated with vigilantes are illegal, such as breaking and entering, torturing people for information, and killing. However, beinga vigilante, in of itself, is not illegal.

Even if I was to agree with you on that point there are still lots of laws that the Superheroes are breaking even before the act was passed. Just imagine the number of laws people like Iron Man, Spider Man and DD are breaking on a daily basis, and the government does not enforce those laws because they are lenient on them. My point was that the new act was not made as some kind of justification to arrest superheroes, since they are already breaking a number of already existing laws.

 

[The Question]

I suppose, but how does one stop a mugger without some physical force or anything? Hitting a mugger would still be battery.

Not necessairily. If it's in order to defend yourself or someone else, it legally counts as self defense. As long, fo course, if you only do what you need to do to subdue the mugger, and don't continue to beat the crap out of him when he's already down.

Even if I was to agree with you on that point there are still lots of laws that the Superheroes are breaking even before the act was passed. Just imagine the number of laws people like Iron Man, Spider Man and DD are breaking on a daily basis, and the government does not enforce those laws because they are lenient on them. My point was that the new act was not made as some kind of justification to arrest superheroes, since they are already breaking a number of already existing laws.

Well, it depends on who you're talking about. I'd bet it's fair to say that Iron Man and Spider-Man break relatively few laws. The most Spider-Man could ever really be charged with is trespassing (when he's swinging around the city and jumping on people's roof tops) and maybe interfering with police procedure, depending on how he handles a crime. Now, Daredevil probably breaks laws such as asault and batery and breaking and entring regularly. And guess what? Matt Murdock was recently arrested on those charges. It's not that they don't enforce the laws. It's just that if you don't know who the person is, it's much harder to catch them.

 

[Trask]

Not necessairily. If it's in order to defend yourself or someone else, it legally counts as self defense. As long, fo course, if you only do what you need to do to subdue the mugger, and don't continue to beat the crap out of him when he's already down.

Ahhh but would Cap America knocking someone out with his shield or Spiderman hanging people upside down from tall buildings, be considered using excessive force or torcher/intimidation?

 

[Trask]

Well, it depends on who you're talking about. I'd bet it's fair to say that Iron Man and Spider-Man break relatively few laws. The most Spider-Man could ever really be charged with is trespassing (when he's swinging around the city and jumping on people's roof tops) and maybe interfering with police procedure, depending on how he handles a crime. Now, Daredevil probably breaks laws such as asault and batery and breaking and entring regularly. And guess what? Matt Murdock was recently arrested on those charges. It's not that they don't enforce the laws. It's just that if you don't know who the person is, it's much harder to catch them.

Actually Spider Man has broken quite a few laws. From breaking and entering to interfering with an investigation to battery (there have been quite a few times where he has lost his temper). Hell he even once scared JJJ so badly that he had a hearth attack and almost died, what would that go under. I mean the guy regularly beats up people and webs them up, usually dangling upside down from a high area. Also how many times has he attacked the wrong person. Things like this might all seem minor and insignificant, but they are not if you are that person.

 

[The Question]

Ahhh but would Cap America knocking someone out with his shield or Spiderman hanging people upside down from tall buildings, be considered using excessive force or torcher/intimidation?

Don't think so. Nothing illegal about knocking someone out if they're trying to kill you. As with Spider-Man, probably not. I guess the criminal who he tied up could sue him for immotional duress, but I doubt it would go anywhere.

Actually Spider Man has broken quite a few laws. From breaking and entering to interfering with an investigation to battery (there have been quite a few times where he has lost his temper). Hell he even once scared JJJ so badly that he had a hearth attack and almost died, what would that go under. I mean the guy regularly beats up people and webs them up, usually dangling upside down from a high area. Also how many times has he attacked the wrong person. Things like this might all seem minor and insignificant, but they are not if you are that person.

And guess what? Most of the time, when police officers see him, they shoot at him. So, obviously, whatever crimes Spider-Man has commited in the past don't go unnoticed.

 

[Trask]

And guess what? Most of the time, when police officers see him, they shoot at him. So, obviously, whatever crimes Spider-Man has commited in the past don't go unnoticed.

Yea but they never hit him , you would think they would be better shots, at least in the Ultimate universe they have managed to shoot him. Besides they havent shot at him in a long while now, and the only time I can really remember when they were really gunning for him for more than one issue was after the death of Cap Stacy.

 

[The Question]

Yea but they never hit him , you would think they would be better shots, at least in the Ultimate universe they have managed to shoot him.

He has superhuman agility and low level precog. He dodged a lightning bolt once. of course they're not going to hit him.

Besides they havent shot at him in a long while now, and the only time I can really remember when they were really gunning for him for more than one issue was after the death of Cap Stacy.

They shot at him a few times recently in Marvel Team Up. I'm sure it happens alot, but it just isn't shown because it's rather trivial.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I suppose his powers must count as "armed and dangerous," then. Cops aren't supposed to shoot at anybody unless it's an absolute last resort.

 

[The Question]

I guess they're warning shots, since whenever they try to stop him he just swings away.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

It will end with something that vaguely resembles the universe that came before it, and like House of M will most likely be forgotten after it is quietly retconned away.

 

[Darthphere]

Layla Miller will know more stuff.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

It will end with something that vaguely resembles the universe that came before it, and like House of M will most likely be forgotten after it is quietly retconned away.

House of M was dealt with in x-men and IS being dealt with in New Avenegers. wasnt retconned away

 

[roach]

The "crime" of vigilantism is not expressly prohibited by law. What constitutes the "crime" in vigilante activity is the underlying crime that is committed in conjunction with vigilante activities. In charging the vigilante, the federal government and most states attempt to make a distinction between whether the underlying crime is a felony or misdemeanor. The most common sentence if the underlying crime is a misdemeanor is probation. Reduced charges, such as third-degree murder or manslaughter, are common when the underlying crime is a felony, the most common sentence being ten years in prison.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

House of M was dealt with in x-men and IS being dealt with in New Avenegers. wasnt retconned away

Except no one important lost their powers. No one seems to care to find Wanda. Magneto is going to get his powers back shortly and everyone convienently was mindwipped of the event...they pretty much don't acknowledge it at all, it is being retconned out and had no long lasting effects. Welcome to Quesada's make money now, worry about cleaning up the mess later style of comic writing.

 

[The Question]

The "crime" of vigilantism is not expressly prohibited by law. What constitutes the "crime" in vigilante activity is the underlying crime that is committed in conjunction with vigilante activities. In charging the vigilante, the federal government and most states attempt to make a distinction between whether the underlying crime is a felony or misdemeanor. The most common sentence if the underlying crime is a misdemeanor is probation. Reduced charges, such as third-degree murder or manslaughter, are common when the underlying crime is a felony, the most common sentence being ten years in prison.

Exactly. It is possible to be a legal vigilante. It isn't easy, but it's possible.

 

[roach]

Exactly. It is possible to be a legal vigilante. It isn't easy, but it's possible.

The Guardian Angels are legal vigilantes as are Neighborhood watches

 

[Darthphere]

Exactly. It is possible to be a legal vigilante. It isn't easy, but it's possible.

Id say its so difficult that its closer to impossible.

 

[The Question]

No, it's not. As Roach said, the Gaurdian Angels are legal vigilantes.

 

[Darthphere]

No, it's not. As Roach said, the Gaurdian Angels are legal vigilantes.

Well theyre a group. Id say the Minutemen are also legal vigilantes but the government allows them to operate. If I went out and started beating up people because they stole something or hurt someone, im getting arrested, its as simple as that.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

Except no one important lost their powers. No one seems to care to find Wanda. Magneto is going to get his powers back shortly and everyone convienently was mindwipped of the event...they pretty much don't acknowledge it at all, it is being retconned out and had no long lasting effects. Welcome to Quesada's make money now, worry about cleaning up the mess later style of comic writing.

nonono, it tidied up the mess of having half of new yorks population have powers and yet there not be anarchy in the streets. i think thats the only lasting effect that it was meant to have from the start and it'll stick to that. im happy it happened

 

[MyPokerShirt]

No, it's not. As Roach said, the Gaurdian Angels are legal vigilantes.

u've moved the issue away from ur original statement. please go and read the civil war comics again. they clearly state that the heroes will become agents, and that they can no longer act unchecked. therefore vigilatism is now forcefully illegal in the marvel universe. oh and thanx for stating american real life vigilante law roach :S -- its just a comic, its gona be different to that.

im a bit baffled this is being discussed as an issue. heroes cannot act freely under SHRA. maybe they'll change it by the end, maybe they wont, but thatsa fact.

 

[Firehawk]

After countless of close loved ones dying due to secret idenities being revealed somehow someway HULK will make it back to earth causing all holy hell to break lose..

Or somehow this all isn't real and just a dream of Pro. X..lol


Or superman would just throw this universe into space..

or phx would come back to kill (insert whoever or how many here)

YES MY FIRST POST.. I've been a member since 2004!!! lol