I Want Spidey To Be A Hero!!!!

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I agree on the saving the damsel to a certain point. But what you said about spidey not knowing of sandman's involvement in ben's death is wrong. In the trailer clearly states that the police tells peter about flint's involvement in ben's death before spidey fights him for the first time. Because the police states that flint has disappeared for 2 or 3 days, so that's before they know that he's been transformed into a sand creature.

Well, what I meant was I think Sandman will be introduced in the beginning, the cops can't stop him, Spidey can't stop him, no one can stop him. So then bring in Captain Stacy---whom Peter saves including Gwen. Then he gets the big extravaganza for him in honor of saving them both.

Couple of scenes later Stacy brings Aunt May and Peter down to the precinct and deliver him the shocking news. Thus, enraging Peter that the cops did nothing and their inability is unacceptable. So when he has the symbiote suit he feels the law enforcement and the city can't do a damn thing about Sandman or any other villains and gives up on them, the Bugle, MJ, Aunt May, everyone, and is all out for himself.

 

[Spidey-Quad]

Why don't you wait until you see the ENTIRE movie before jumping to conclusions. I'm sure Spidey WILL be a hero. Btw, Batman made much less moola than the Raimi movies so quit second quessing. Nothing less original then a Robin #91939, there's like a ton of other birds name. Most more viscious then a robin

Oh P.S. Remember "Batman and Robin"? Well I just wanted that to be ...good!

 

[Robin91939]

Why don't you wait until you see the ENTIRE movie before jumping to conclusions. I'm sure Spidey WILL be a hero. Btw, Batman made much less moola than the Raimi movies so quit second quessing. Nothing less original then a Robin #91939, there's like a ton of other birds name. Most more viscious then a robin

Oh P.S. Remember "Batman and Robin"? Well I just wanted that to be ...good!

It has nothing to do with money.
I love the first two films, they are, along with BATMAN BEGINS and the X-MEN films the top of the superhero films.

But making the killer of Ben the Sandman, to make the story better for Peter is rediculous. Didn't he just realize in movie 2 that the powers weren't his to give up, that they are for everyone. Doesnt that mean that naturally in movie 3 we should show a villain that he has to fight for everyone and not just his self? We already had two very personal villains. We have a third with Harry Osborn in SPIDER-MAN 3 and with Venom. Why was Sandman needed to be made into a killer? Also, if we get a movie 4, that will be another personal villain (that SHOULD be a personaly villain) with Doc Conners and the Lizard.

It just really wasn't needed for this to happen.


I'm gonna watch the movie and judge it fully after (I hope that it's only the suit that makes him believe that Sandman killed Uncle Ben and the police end up being wrong.

-R

 

[3dman27]

bump

 

[Won '08]

This.....this is....sad. =(

 

[matthooper]

bump

Why bump an idiotic thread. It hasn't been posted in for months because it was rediculous and therefore became dead.

 

[zanos]

I can finally sympathize with many of the other posters on this board.

They've complained about it all from the lack of "wise-cracks" from Spider-man all the way to the organic webbing.

They've complained about Octavious' redemption and the Green Goblin's costume.

All of this, I have chalked up to, simply, not being able to please everyone. But then we got this new trailer. An awesome trailer- really awesome, just like SPIDER-MAN and SPIDER-MAN 2 are awesome movies. However, I have a gripe, no it's not that the CGI is unpolished (this is a 300 million dollar movie, the CGI will be great) or that Venom didn't appear (although I did expect to see him).

My complaint is one that I've heard from other posters on this board- like Doc Ock. The complaint is- WHY THE HELL CAN'T A HERO BE A HERO JUST TO BE A HERO?

Why does (like in movie 1&2) the "woman he loves" have to be in trouble? Or why does the man he's hunting down have to be the murderer of his parent(s)?

Why could Flint Marko (Sandman) just be a menace to the society that had to be stopped? A menace so powerfull that the police and athorities couldn't bring him down and Spider-man steps in to save the day. Why can't he just save the day because it is the right thing to do?

Having Spider-man only really seem to get pissed off, when his girl friend is in danger or if the man he is chasing is the one that killed his uncle, really makes him seem selfish in my eyes. Yeah, there have been the burning building sequences and some other "random" crimes- but why does every "super-villain" need to make things any more personal than: "This is New York, this is Spider-man's city, and they are not going to get away with hurting anyone in his city".

Spider-man should be a selfless hero, not perfect, but not greedy. Have a villain that doesn't have to steal MJ to get to him, or that doesn't have to kill Gwen or Uncle Ben. Just have Spider-man want to stop a threat. He has the gift of being Spider-man- show him living with the curse of having to selflessly help everyone...add some wisecracks, and show him enjoy it.

I want a hero in SPIDER-MAN 3.

-R

That's the comic book spider-man you're talking about. The point of these films isn't about selflessness. It's about Peter finally getting MJ. He'll thwart a crime here or there along the way but it isn't the goal of these films.

 

[Silverstein]

See. I don't know what movies people are watching but:

Spider-Man 1:
Spider-Man beats up bank robbers and theives and stuff, Green Goblin show ups, Spider-Man takes him on and saves a kid, a bunch of people and MJ. Then he beats up GG and sends him running away. GG comes back and takes MJ at the end of the movie. Then he gets angry. You wouldn't get pissed if someone kidnapped your girlfriend/boyfriend, scared the **** out of your mom/grandmom/aunt/whatever, and then tried to kill a bunch of children...all just to get to you?

Spider-Man 2:
Peter is constantly shown beating up bad guys. He beats up a bunch of nobody villains in several montages, but then because he is stressed out he begins to think about what he wants. He decides he wants mj and a normal life, so he drops the tight wearing and tries to clean up his life...(I'm sorry for the following caps but..) HE HAD ALREADY DECIDED TO BE A HERO AGAIN BEFORE MJ WAS IN DANGER. Watch it again. Why did he go to the coffee shop to meet with MJ? It was to tell her that he could not be with her. THEN Doc Ock took MJ and THEN Peter got pissed because Harry and Octavius were trying to reach him on a personal level.


Okay? So basically you guys are pointing out that villains are attacking him personally and then wondering why he gets upset. Completely ignoring the fact that for the whole movie he IS being a hero just because it's the right thing to do. He is not being a selfish *****e like some people make him seem. He's just doing what's right.

As for SM 3? Well Sandman is a petty crook who isn't even that evil. I have a reprint of the issues where he fights Sandman the first time. Sandman doesn't even really want to fight him. He just sees spider-man as an obstacle. He isn't trying to hurt anyone. He just wants money. Notices that he doesn't kill the cops or do anything, he just blinds them with sand and stuff and then flees. And you can't say "Oh well it was the 60's so things weren't so violent." Because that's what the stories are from.

To summarize for the nay-sayers, they are giving Sandman an edge. AND because this is a movie series and not a comic book, there needs to be something that comics don't know much about: CLOSURE. It's means wrapping up loose ends and giving the end meaning. A comic can go on forever. We can let spider-man be spidey for the rest of his life in a comic. Or lapse years into one year..etc etc. But in a movie, we need to explain that Spider-man needs to come to terms with his vengeance.

Spider-man let the person he thought was the crook die. A real hero saves the villain as well. And so by giving spider-man this second chance to work out his issues, he can overcome his own evils. Now he can fight so that other people don't have to suffer the loss that he suffered, because he has the responsibility and power to.


Most likely, it will turn out that Sandman didn't do it after all and Peter basically will have learned to defeat his own evil. So he was given a second chance without it actually being sandy.

Anyway, that's why Sandman is "the killer" and why he seemed to get more pissed at Doc Ock and GG. As if it needed explaining. Some people just don't understand what they watch.

 

[Silverstein]

That's the comic book spider-man you're talking about. The point of these films isn't about selflessness. It's about Peter finally getting MJ. He'll thwart a crime here or there along the way but it isn't the goal of these films.

Peter and spider-man have two different purposes, sir. Peter wants to marry mj, yes. But spider-man wants to stop crime. We're following Peter Parker, The Amazing Spider-Man. So we see the story of mj and peter, but we also face the villains of spider-man.

It's almost as if some people want to see a spider-man movie completely devoid of PP's life...

 

[zanos]

In the overall arch of these films they serve a single purpose. To finally get MJ. Don't you remember Peter's narration from the first film about this being the story of about girl? Peter is bitten by the spider as a result of his lust for MJ. Peter comes up with the idea to use his powers for money because he wants to impress MJ and in return results in the death of his uncle which forces him to become Spider-man. In the sequel Peter loses his powers because he loves MJ and wants to be with her. Then when she is kidnapped. Peter finally regains his powers and becomes Spider-man again so he can rescue MJ. At the end Peter's life long dream is finally realized when she runs to him leaving JJJ's son at the altar. MJ is essentially the reason why Peter is Spider-man and what drives these films. Being a hero is just a job like any other. Albeit a very dedicated one. The main focus is to get some action if you know what I mean.

 

[Silverstein]

In a general sense, that's true. But even so, Sam Raimi's intentions were to blend realism with the world of comics. Love or even the possibility of love can drive tremendous forces. Helen of Troy, Juliet, etc...MJ just happens to be Peter's focus. But he is still a hero, and he isn't doing it because of MJ. It may have all been influenced by her, but she was never what got him up every day to fight crime. It was uncle ben. His lust for MJ, though, is just as selfish as the original comics when Peter wanted to become famous.

And doing it for a girl (wrestling) seems more reasonable/realistic then trying to become a millionare. So when he realized that he was not being responsible, it was too late. Just like what happened in the comic.

So I don't see how making the story of Peter focus on mj, makes Spider-man any less of a hero.


If I'm walking to my girlfriend's house and I see a house on fire. I run in to help and save everyone, I even put out the fire...But then I get back on the road and keep heading to her house. Am I not a "real hero" because I was only on the road because of my gf?


Maybe it's up to interpretation and no one is correct? Because I still see Spidey as being a true hero. And I still don't see him only acting because of MJ. Because as I said above in my longer post, he had decided to fight Doc Ock BEFORE SHE GOT KIDNAPPED. He decided to be spider-man again. That's why they were in the restaraunt together, he was actually being insanely self-less. That's why she wanted a kiss because he said he didn't love her anymore.

Seriously, don't respond to my post unless you respond to that. Everyone that labels him some kind of mj-freak seems to ignore that whole segment of him giving her up.

 

[zanos]

In a general sense, that's true. But even so, Sam Raimi's intentions were to blend realism with the world of comics. Love or even the possibility of love can drive tremendous forces. Helen of Troy, Juliet, etc...MJ just happens to be Peter's focus. But he is still a hero, and he isn't doing it because of MJ. It may have all been influenced by her, but she was never what got him up every day to fight crime. It was uncle ben. His lust for MJ, though, is just as selfish as the original comics when Peter wanted to become famous.

Love drives alot of films but few utilize it as badly as the Spider-man films. The reasoning behind their "love" in the first film isn't even logical. We know why Peter "loves" her. He thinks she's hot. Way to go, Sam. MJ is in love with Peter because of what? His silly love talk from that hospital scene? I want you to actually count the number of times they actually share a scene together and what goes on in those scenes and how long they are. Are you going to fall in love with someone from interacting with them for a few fleeting moments? Their entire relationship is completely forced yet Sam Raimi is using their so called relationship to drive the plots of each of his films. My point was never that Spider-man wasn't a hero but it is not the driving force behind these films.

And doing it for a girl (wrestling) seems more reasonable/realistic then trying to become a millionare. So when he realized that he was not being responsible, it was too late. Just like what happened in the comic.

Well I suppose that's subjective. Why is trying to make money to impress a girl more realistic than trying to use your powers to become famous and make money? Sam took a clumsy and ineffective route to tell the same origin which Stan and other writers had pretty much perfected. In the comics Peter virtually became a different person after becoming Spider-man. He was completely consumed with himself and cared about no one but himself and his uncle and aunt. The irony of this is why the story of him being Spider-man is so poetic and powerful. Peter is constantly fighting to live up to his uncle's words. Not only did Raimi screw up that famous quote by using it in a nonsensical situation but Peter letting the crook go was more petty than anything else and one could hardly blame him. The lesson he was really learning in that situation is more likely to be to get better representation so that he doesn't get ripped off in the future. One might say his inaction was enough to guilt him into becoming Spider-man and thus results in the same thing but considering that he killed the criminal that murdered his uncle the reasoning in becoming Spider-man and staying in costume becomes ALOT less compelling.

So I don't see how making the story of Peter focus on mj, makes Spider-man any less of a hero.

If I'm walking to my girlfriend's house and I see a house on fire. I run in to help and save everyone, I even put out the fire...But then I get back on the road and keep heading to her house. Am I not a "real hero" because I was only on the road because of my gf?


Maybe it's up to interpretation and no one is correct? Because I still see Spidey as being a true hero. And I still don't see him only acting because of MJ. Because as I said above in my longer post, he had decided to fight Doc Ock BEFORE SHE GOT KIDNAPPED. He decided to be spider-man again. That's why they were in the restaraunt together, he was actually being insanely self-less. That's why she wanted a kiss because he said he didn't love her anymore.

Seriously, don't respond to my post unless you respond to that. Everyone that labels him some kind of mj-freak seems to ignore that whole segment of him giving her up.

Peter "giving up" MJ really doesn't make him any less of an MJ freak as you call him. He's been dreaming about her since he was a kid and he's still thinking about her years after high school and doesn't even think about or go out with any other women. What do you call a person like that? I rest my case.

 

[Mr Jide]

spidey doesnt enjoy being a hero that much because he feels he has to do it, thats the way it is and thats the way everybody likes it, "with great power comes great responsibilty", thats the line of why spidey does what he does, and thats the way i like it, its been like that since spidermans 1st appearance in 1962 all the way to the movies.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If you think spidey does what he does because he feels obligated to do it and that he doesn't enjoy being spider-man, you are sadly mistaken and know very little about the spider-man mythos

 

[Mr Jide]

The complaint is- WHY THE HELL CAN'T A HERO BE A HERO JUST TO BE A HERO?

Let me say that, on behalf of myself and posters like, Novermer rain, I salute your questioning of, wtf is going on here.
I've been saying this for years. The answer is simple. Raimi doesn't understand the aesthetics of spider-man's characetr. 2 overrated, sugar-coated mediocre spidey films and still, most people cant see that Raimi lacks the proper and fundimental understanding of spider-man.

 

[The Joker]

My complaint is one that I've heard from other posters on this board- like Doc Ock. The complaint is- WHY THE HELL CAN'T A HERO BE A HERO JUST TO BE A HERO?

.............huh?!?!?

When the heck did I say that??

Spider-Man is a hero in the movies. Apart from when he 'lost' his powers, when did he ever turn his back on a crime?? Heck, he even went and saved a child from a burning building without his powers.

His powers returned to him when Ock kidnapped MJ, because he could not save her without his powers. Not that in that moment he decided he wanted to be Spider-Man again. He had decided that after Aunt May gave him the inspirational speech about heros. It's why he rejected MJ again in the cafe. He didn't want her to be a part of the dangerous lifestyle he was going to take up again.

 

[Joker]

if everything was perfect, we would all be living in sand huts

I know it's off topic, but I dont understand this at all...if everything was perfect, I wouldnt be in a sand hut, because that s far from my idea of perfect lodgings...I would be living in a palatial estate with dozens of beautiful naked girls bringing me food and fanning me all day long, and possibly jumping up and down a bit...not a sand hut