If you weren't already aware that Men's Rights activists are scumbags...

[Morg]

heard about that idiot, guess what? He lives in the basement at his mom's house

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm not sure how a suppourt system for male victims or rape and abuse comes at the expense of anyone.

Well you don't have to be a MRA to say men shouldn't be raped.

You could join Amnesty International and help all rape victims.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Anorexics typically don't demand advantages at the expense of people who can't afford food.

That's what MRA's do. They want better custody rights, the right to hit women, less child support obligations, more preference in higher education at the expense of the lesser advantaged (women).

How are women less advantaged in terms of getting into higher education? I myself had no problems getting into higher education based on my gender, neither did anyone I know.

Again I mean in western countries.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

How are women less advantaged in terms of getting into higher education? I myself had no problems getting into higher education based on my gender, neither did anyone I know.

Again I mean in western countries.

The MRA talking points are just crazy though.

The average woman is smaller than the average man in western countries, correct?

So why should a western man be expected to hit western woman?

Are not enough women being punched by men?

Also aren't women typically the homemaker who foregoes career opportunities to take care of some dude's rug rats?

Why should the male breadwinner be able to point out his income as a reason to receive sole custody.

What options does the homemaker have?

Really, I'm against male rape but these are not cases of male's being raped. These are preventative measures to make sure male advantages aren't abused as they have been for thousands of years against women who were beaten or had their kids taken away due to not working or no income.

Let's be real.

Men are in a stronger position sometimes and it has nothing to do with merit or karmic righteousness.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

How are women less advantaged in terms of getting into higher education? I myself had no problems getting into higher education based on my gender, neither did anyone I know.

Again I mean in western countries.

And to address this specific point I already said women get more entry to colleges because they seek out higher education not because the world hates men.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

The MRA talking points are just crazy though.

The average woman is smaller than the average man in western countries, correct?

So why should a western man be expected to hit western woman?

Are not enough women being punched by men?

Also aren't women typically the homemaker who foregoes career opportunities to take care of some dude's rug rats?

Why should the male breadwinner be able to point out his income as a reason to receive sole custody.

What options does the homemaker have?

Really, I'm against male rape but these are not cases of male's being raped. These are preventative measures to make sure male advantages aren't abused as they have been for thousands of years against women who were beaten or had their kids taken away due to not working or no income.

Let's be real.

Men are in a stronger position sometimes and it has nothing to do with merit or karmic righteousness.

There are so many situations in which men don't even try to defend themselves out of fear of the woman claiming they battered her. That's female to male abuse right there. Men don't have to punch a woman to defend themselves but if they push her out of the way or restrain her by holding on to her arms she can easily accuse him of abuse and people are more likely to believe her than him.

Also it's not just about income when it comes to custody of children, there are many other factors in play. Parenting ability, mental health, the child's choice, etc.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

There are so many situations in which men don't even try to defend themselves out of fear of the woman claiming they battered her. That's female to male abuse right there. Men don't have to punch a woman to defend themselves but if they push her out of the way or restrain her by holding on to her arms she can easily accuse him of abuse and people are more likely to believe her than him.

Also it's not just about income when it comes to custody of children, there are many other factors in play. Parenting ability, mental health, the child's choice, etc.

I don't think you're doing the world any favors telling men they can hit their wives, girlfriends, etc.

If my daughters were irresponsible enough to unfairly strike a man I'd hope she were with a man who didn't hit her back and found a better solution than violence. If she visits me and has a black eye, I don't care who started it, we're going to have a problem.

And income is factored in when deciding custody which isn't really fair to any full time homemaker/housewife.

 

[Greens]

I don't think you're doing the world any favors telling men they can hit their wives, girlfriends, etc.

If my daughters were irresponsible enough to unfairly strike a man I'd hope she were with a man who didn't hit her back and found a better solution than violence. If she visits me and has a black eye, I don't care who started it, we're going to have a problem.

And income is factored in when deciding custody which isn't really fair to any full time homemaker/housewife.

I think it's hard to deny that a lot of women get the benefit of the doubt in abuse situations.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I don't think you're doing the world any favors telling men they can hit their wives, girlfriends, etc.

If my daughters were irresponsible enough to unfairly strike a man I'd hope she were with a man who didn't hit her back and found a better solution than violence. If she visits me and has a black eye, I don't care who started it, we're going to have a problem.

And income is factored in when deciding custody which isn't really fair to any full time homemaker/housewife.

You are purposely ignoring what I'm saying to make a point. I didn't at all say men should be able to punch women, I said they should be able to use reasonable force. Reasonable force does not equal black eye. Pushing a woman out of the way because she's coming at you with full force (maybe even objects) is not the same as punching her in the face.

I will also say that punching anyone isn't good, regardless of gender.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I've known of men who physically assualted women I know and I've known men who have endured being hit by women without striking back and never once have I said the men who refused to hit back should've acted more like the wife beaters.

To me, the men who refused to hit back will always be the bigger and more honorable men.

That's not say a man should stay with a woman who abuses them. They should leave that situation as soon as possible but they are waaaaay better human beings then they guy who knocks a woman's teeth out, blackens a woman's eye or breaks a woman's arm (like some scumbag did to my cousins' teenage daughter recently).

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think it's hard to deny that a lot of women get the benefit of the doubt in abuse situations.

Yeah because *****ebag wifebeaters tend to justify their behavior when there's really no excuse whatsoever.

If cops just accepted the "she hit me first" defense every wifebeater scumbag in the universe would use that defense.

If a woman hits you, walk away.

It's not rocket science.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You are purposely ignoring what I'm saying to make a point. I didn't at all say men should be able to punch women, I said they should be able to use reasonable force. Reasonable force does not equal black eye. Pushing a woman out of the way because she's coming at you with full force (maybe even objects) is not the same as punching her in the face.

I will also say that punching anyone isn't good, regardless of gender.

Show me where you said it's always wrong to strike a woman but pushing or holding them down is okay?

There are very few grey areas for striking an unarmed woman.

Even pushing or slamming can be done in an abusive manner.

There's only two reasonable responses to an unarmed woman who hits you unjustly: hold her down until you can leave or move her out of your way until you can leave.

But telling guys they can fight back when a woman hits them is a terrible idea. All men should be encouraged to leave the situation rather than use physical force to prevent scenarios where women are injured and "men" use every excuse under the sun to justify it. Just leave, no one wants to hear your excuses when my daughter, sister or mother is in the hospital.

 

[The Endless]

If a woman comes at me with a knife I'll spark her out like a light bulb. Simple as that.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If a woman comes at me with a knife I'll spark her out like a light bulb. Simple as that.

There's a huge difference between a woman with a knife and a woman who is unarmed.

Even a toddler with a knife is extremely dangerous (Though it would be safer for everyone involved to restrain the child by the wrists rather than striking the child).

But how many women who are injured every day by boyfriends and husbands were attempting to stab their partner with a knife?

A woman is beaten every 9 seconds. You really think most of these women are attempting to stab men. Nope their partners are typically violent D-bags.

 

[PacificBoy]

Show me where you said it's always wrong to strike a woman but pushing or holding them down is okay?

There are very few grey areas for striking an unarmed woman.

Even pushing or slamming can be done in an abusive manner.

There's only two reasonable responses to an unarmed woman who hits you unjustly: hold her down until you can leave or move her out of your way until you can leave.

But telling guys they can fight back when a woman hits them is a terrible idea. All men should be encouraged to leave the situation rather than use physical force to prevent scenarios where women are injured and "men" use every excuse under the sun to justify it. Just leave, no one wants to hear your excuses when my daughter, sister or mother is in the hospital.

Largely agree but holding a woman down is really the last thing you want to do. Firstly, it tends to escalate the situation because the already violent person will sure as hell flail, kick and bite her way out -- which will not only increase the chance of you getting hurt but also retaliating. Secondly, you're putting yourself in literally a bad position -- you're factually 'physically restraining her against her will' and in plenty of he-said-she-said's, it doesn't swing in the man's favour in court.

You'd want to show that you've tried to retreat (if possible), tried to defuse the situation (in front of as many reliable eyewitnesses as possible and proclaimed audibly you want her to desist), tried to call the cops, before resorting to any physical reprisal. To cover your ass legally.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Isn't the idea of defending one's self in such a situation is appropriate force? Like just because someone pushes you, doesn't mean you get to pull a knife or a gun and just kill them?

 

[Ms. Marvel]

^ Pretty much what I was trying to get at. If someone attacked you, you should be able to push them out of the way which is a form of violence but appropriate violence.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think the ultimate test is do what you would do if 5 big dudes slapped, punched or kicked you.

Would you try to beat them all or or try to walk away.

Alot of guys get punched, slapped or kicked and because it was done by 125 pound, 5 foot nothing woman they figure it's the perfect time to assert their manhood and teach her a lesson. But if it were 5 big dudes they would walk away.

Unless you're about to get murdered or severely injured with zero escape routes, striking a woman is cowardly.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

No the ultimate test is what would you if 5 big dudes beat you up and you had some sort of super strength.

 

[PacificBoy]

Reasonable force is tricky in the use of it between a man and a woman in a random scrap. The main issue is the strength differential.

When a woman hits or pushes a man, he's usually still standing. When a man shoves a woman, she's usually sent flying -- and it's where she's sent flying to that's problematic because you can't account for any injury on her landing. Even if you were shoving her aside to get away from her, the inquiry will be made whether you could have done something else if the shove had caused serious injury. That is, whether shoving her was a reasonable action in the first place, especially if you've conceded that your self wasn't meaningfully threatened.

In short, if you're a man, you don't want to get in a shoving contest with a woman. You're better off walking away quickly, calling for help, alerting the authorities.

 

[jokesonm3]

I don't know man, if i entered a 'shoving' contest with Ronda Rousey, i'm confident that she'll whoop my ass from here to timbuktu in a heartbeat.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The average woman is much smaller than the average man.

A fact many guys will use to their advantage to punish a woman for attacking them or even insulting them.

And size makes a difference. There's a reason there are weight classes for professional fighting.

 

[PacificBoy]

Well, we're talking about encounters between normal people and not a squash match.

The average woman is much smaller than the average man.

A fact many guys will use to their advantage to punish a woman for attacking them or even insulting them.

Which is why the law, the practice of it anyway and not the letter, tends to skew in the woman's favour.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Reasonable force is tricky in the use of it between a man and a woman in a random scrap. The main issue is the strength differential.

When a woman hits or pushes a man, he's usually still standing. When a man shoves a woman, she's usually sent flying -- and it's where she's sent flying to that's problematic because you can't account for any injury on her landing. Even if you were shoving her aside to get away from her, the inquiry will be made whether you could have done something else if the shove had caused serious injury. That is, whether shoving her was a reasonable action in the first place, especially if you've conceded that your self wasn't meaningfully threatened.

In short, if you're a man, you don't want to get in a shoving contest with a woman. You're better off walking away quickly, calling for help, alerting the authorities.

I agree with this. And I agree with this, because appropriate force depends on the other person and the situation. If you have the clear and obvious physical advantage in a situation, just because someone touched, doesn't mean you can just wail off and punch them in the face. Many men who are quick to assert their manliness are the same who like to take advantage of such a situation.

I can't remember what school it was, but a college player last off season in a bar got in an argument with a young woman. At some point she tries or actually slaps him, I am not sure. The next thing you know, he basically knocks her out in retaliation. And while the sight of that made me sick, what even bothered me more was the reaction of other males. That she deserved it because she touched him first. As if that is a sign of "equality".

 

[BillPardy]

Going through this thread perfectly illustrates the point that this is all a contest with a winner and loser. We all better keep fighting because it's not possible that these problems are anything other then black and white.
It's about one upping one another. My problems are worse then your problems. We can't possibly work on solving each of our problems, we should focus on creating more and more divides between us all.

PS. Happy this **** bag has cancelled his tour.