Is Batman a fascist?

[Zeu]

So?
What are you gonna do, arrest me for a grammar mishap?

 

[droogiedroogie2]

while the republican was an idiot who was simply in it for the power inherent.

Which most modern Republicans are.

Actually conservatives highly support private charities, it's government charity such as welfare, etc. that they oppose.

Right, it's the types of charity that actually work, that they don't support.

He did have a problem with Wonder Woman killing Max Lord. He wasn't as horrified by it as Superman, but he very clearly disapproved.

And when Wonder Woman declared that Dr. Light should have been killed, he also refuted this. WW accused him of not understanding the situation, and he said something like "I understand it. I just refuse to accept it."

Yep.

By the way....Superman getting mindcontrolled by Max Lord pretty much justifies the protocols. Being smart isnt being opressive.

Agreed. I still don't hold Batman accountable for any of that. I hold Lord responsible. Lord's the one who ****in' did all this ****. And Sasha's the one who could have stopped it. Similarly, I hold Talia responsible for hacking his files in Tower of Babel. It was such a betrayal, such a violation of trust. I've always felt that any relationship between Bruce and Talia should have terminated then and there.

 

[CLARKY]

Just want to get some feedback on this one.

I've heard very often people calling him "überbat" in order to describe the fascist he has become ... oh well ...

 

[hippie_hunter]

Which most modern Republicans are.

Right, it's the types of charity that actually work, that they don't support.

Great, it's another one of those Republicans = Evil and Republicans teh sux people

Hurray for ignorance

 

[Fred_Fury]

He seemed pretty conservative in The Dark Knight Returns. The 'talking heads' in DKR seemed to parody the typical liberal arguments made about crime (crime fighters are abusive/the real criminals, criminals are the real victims, victims of poverty, racism, capitalism, mental issues etc) But I think the only issue he really cares about is crime so you cant really label him conservative or liberal, and it really depends on whos writing the story and what their political affiliation is (frank miller is a conservative guy)

 

[hippie_hunter]

No in Frank Miller's world, cops are abusive and the real criminals, all women are ****s, criminals are the real victims, and Superman is a pawn to be used by anybody. It wasn't a parody it's what Frank Miller actually thinks.

He even had Batman fight against the government.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What superhero hasn't fought against the government at some point?

 

[The Question]

What superhero hasn't fought against the government at some point?

Captain Atom. He's remained pretty much loyal to every president the DCU's had, even Luthor. And even when he went against Luthor, he just failed to follow orders he felt were morally questionable. He didn't actually fight Luthor.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There's gotta be some story, somewhere where Captain Atom has been forced to choose something else over the government.

 

[MiracloFiend]

There's gotta be some story, somewhere where Captain Atom has been forced to choose something else over the government.

Yeah Atom was always butting heads with Gen. Eiling. Then he went against the military by revealing to the world that the origin of his powers was part of a massive govt. cover-up, forcing him to resign.

Also, he invaded Bialya a bunch without govt. backing...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There you go. It's pretty much impossible for superheroes with strong morals to work with the government ten times out of ten.

Awesome name, by the way. I'm a big Hourman fan.

 

[MiracloFiend]

Awesome name, by the way. I'm a big Hourman fan.

and I'm a fan of rotundity.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.

 

[MiracloFiend]

A fat guy and a pill popper. I smell a sit- com. t:

 

[IDispose]

According to whom?

According to you. You are basing fascism on fear and control and little else.

Talk is cheap.
How about some actual real-life examples to consubstanciate your claim, n00b?

Iran is a theocracy not a fascist state. Stalin was not a fascist. Ho che mein was not a fascist. Che guevara was not a fascist. Fidel Castro is not a fascist. Julius Caesar was not a fascist. A dictator does not have to be a fascist. Fear and control != fascism.

And why is that, n00b?
No, don´t look at the other people´s posts, I wanna hear in your own words.

Bruce Wayne Industries could not survive in a fascist state. I don't think Bruce would like the intimidation factor of living in that kind of goverment.

A personal attack on your very first post, n00b?
You´ll make plenty of friends here, oh yeah.

You actually call that a personal attack? Oh come on.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Iran is a theocracy not a fascist state. Stalin was not a fascist. Ho che mein was not a fascist. Che guevara was not a fascist. Fidel Castro is not a fascist. Julius Caesar was not a fascist. A dictator does not have to be a fascist. Fear and control != fascism

Stalin, Guevara, Ho, and Castro aren't fascists. They are communists which are the exact opposite of fascist yet they still used fear and control as methods and brutally killed those who opposed them. Stalin especially.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

He has underlying fascist tendencies. His whole montra is "make a world where an 8 year old boy never has to lose his parents ever again". And he certainly seems to believe fear and secret police forces are a way of achieving said goal.

He essentially devotes his life to imposing a worldview on everyone in Gotham City. We just sympathize with that goal and the characters who agree with him (such as Gordon and Alfred). However just because he has the right people behind him, that his supporters love him (which agruably all fascist have 100% approval ratings), and the fact that it's criminals as we see it does not remove the fascist undertones.

He just doesn't impose anything controversial to us, however in Gotham, which is a hotbed of crime. He does attempt to radically change the climate through fear and using an almost Big Brother like pressence.

In response to saying his proactive and fear mongering is smart, technically fascism is smart. It eliminates opposition. It you truly wanted law and order, fascism is absolutely the way to go. With freedom there is an inherent trade off with safety. However Batman goal is to make his world totally safe. Going to such extremes as monitoring without consent (something Bush is repeatedly criticized for), spy satillites, meta human hunters, failsafe traps for if (people like the Justice League..his friends mind you) step out of line.

He is not a full blown fascist, simply because he does not put himself in a position to be such. However, it is possible Batman keeps himself from such a temptation of power. It's possible he recognizes his underlying fascist tendencies and suppresses them in that way. Perhaps Batman himself exists because Bruce Wayne has the resources to take such power, however as Batman he can explore this dark nature without the status that comes with being Bruce Wayne.

Batman even admits himself "deep down inside I'm not a good person". We've known from previous encounters that Batman fears stepping over the edge. I believe this is that edge. So, yes, I agree he is boardline.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Coast City?

Nope! Nothing wrong here! Not as long as we've got Mr. Bright Shiny Happy Fun Light Green Dude here!

...oh wait...****, the whole city's gone, and Hal just went unbalanced. Hmmm...maybe there is something to Batman's serious attitude. Maybe, if certain mother****ers would take their jobs more seriously, their cities wouldn't get blown up. Or they wouldn't be forced to barge into Checkmate headquarters with no backup, because nobody believed them anymore! Or they wouldn't be reduced to commercialized self-parodies dying for nothing to make room for Supernova! Or their wives wouldn't get raped and murdered, forcing them to contemplate suicide! Or they wouldn't sit out most of Infinite Crisis in an existential funk, only to show up at the last minute and dramatically die! Gawrsh, the possibilities are endless!

 

[droogiedroogie2]

No in Frank Miller's world, cops are abusive and the real criminals, all women are ****s, criminals are the real victims, and Superman is a pawn to be used by anybody. It wasn't a parody it's what Frank Miller actually thinks.

He even had Batman fight against the government.

It's funny, because now he's doing Holy Terror Batman, an unabashed propaganda piece.

Before, however oversimplified it was, his view that cops are the real criminals and criminals are victims, had a lot of truth to it, though. Criminals are victims of a ****ed-up system, and cops have it too easy.

 

[batbat_29640]

IDispose . . . ya made a friend in me!

 

[Kitsune]

Stalin, Guevara, Ho, and Castro aren't fascists. They are communists which are the exact opposite of fascist yet they still used fear and control as methods and brutally killed those who opposed them. Stalin especially.

Actually comunism as it is practiced in those countries was just fascism with a happy face put on them. The difference between Hitler and Stalin, is that Stalin pretended he was doing it to help the people.

1fas‧cism  /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fash-iz-uhm. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

 

[batbat_29640]

And I don't understand why Miller is just gonna rip off someone elses batman title. He's already made Batman "HIS FAVORITE CHARACTER OF ALL TIME" into an ass. And now he's just gonns steal someone elses title just so he can throw Batman at some Al'Queda? I loved The Dark Knight Returns and Year One but now the man has made Batman into his own pawn. It's like he took all his Sin City anti-heroes, mashed em all together and put em in a Batsuit.

 

[fifthfiend]

I think Batman avoids definition as a fascist by his decision to work outside the law. As such he claims no state imprimatur for his actions, he merely does as he does because it is his own estimation that such action is necessary. His decision to work outside the boundaries law implicitly affirms the importance of those boundaries, even if circumstances require that said boundaries need be crossed.

By comparison, a truly fascist Bruce Wayne would use his personal wealth and resources to ensconce himself amongst the mechanisms of state power and set about to bend and warp those mechanisms to his liking.

At least that's my theory, based on five minutes of coming up with a Batman-not-fascist theory.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

He seemed pretty conservative in The Dark Knight Returns. The 'talking heads' in DKR seemed to parody the typical liberal arguments made about crime (crime fighters are abusive/the real criminals, criminals are the real victims, victims of poverty, racism, capitalism, mental issues etc) But I think the only issue he really cares about is crime so you cant really label him conservative or liberal, and it really depends on whos writing the story and what their political affiliation is (frank miller is a conservative guy)

Actually, to me, it seemed like neither side understood him. The liberals thought he was some boogyman who instantly made men do evil deeds, and the conservatives thought he would be a facist, wanted him to be a facist, and sought social clensing (one of them actually says that Batman should "go after the homos next.").

Frank Miller's Batman in DKR was never meant to be facist, and Miller himself isn't to the right at all--from what I've seen, he's more to far left (the Revolutionaries). In fact, he described the character once as an "anarchist superhero in Regan's America."