Is Batman a good hero?

[Fenwick]

I ask this not in the, why look he saved the universe, or the JL, or even Superman scheme of things but in actual terms of saving the day. We look at heroes and point the good they do, yet in truth Gotham city seems like the worst place to live inside of the DC universe.

High crime rate, constant murder, corrupt police, the list goes on. Batman is a favorite character of mine, but after looking at various posts, and threads I am starting to get this feeling that perhaps his skills at fighting crime are somewhat lacking. I mean he is smart, determined, and all the time fighting crime, however has any dent been made? Superman, Green Arrow, Flash, and all the tohers live in cities with a lot of supervillians, but little street crime. Gotham has both. So is it fair to say that Batman does save the world, but kinda sucks at stopping crime?

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I would say that only stupid writers make him a bad hero, especially during the batdickery era (which seems to be resurging) where he took every opportunity available to try and screw over his best friends in some way.

 

[saska83]

He is a good hero, but the problem is that people do not trust him completely... some of them are frightened considering him as a monster, others believe he is only a freak, a creature that deserve to be eliminated, but very few person believe that he is doing the right thing.

People have a tendency to bw guided only by few or one person, because they think that certain person will think and take care of all of them... to give whole responsibility to one person, not taking care is he ready or not, or he can be trusted or not.

 

[ironman29758]

1. Batman is just Human, frigtening and the perfect human but still human

2. People know Batman can't be everywhere at once.

3. People don't trust/afraid of Batman

 

[Fenwick]

Well the point is not really trust, or acceptence but actually stopping crime. Given the amoutn of gang wars, true this is writers but as it is part of the Batman comics it is to be seen as truth in the DC world, you would think a smart guy like Bruce would do something different.

Yet the scheme is "scare bad guy=bad guy no commit evil deeds= every body happy!" I'd like one panel, a single panel in which Batman wonders if being in a costume and beating up muggers is really the best use of his talents.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Just look at the condition Gotham has been in for nearly 100 years. I'd vote him out. No real results.

 

[Cain]

Actually he has been so effective in tackling crime that the only ones left in the street are lowly weirdos who even Alfred could take bare handed on a sick day. That was actually one of the points of Batman R.I.P. that he's too[/] good a hero. To the point that when we catch up with him in this story he is chasing z level weirdo's that pose no real threat to someone like him at all cause there is nothing left to do.

He is the best hero as far as humans are concerned he is at peak level at damn near eveything he has become a perfectionist. This has been one of the things Morrison has emphasized in his run and will be interesting to see how the new Batman could even think of measuring up in the mean time. As far as maintaining a consistent & effective war on crime like Bruce Wayne would.

This is why the Black Glove had to step in and brought the club of villains with them. To stir **** up in Gotham and bring crime back to it once more. Undo all of Batman's good will in bringing down crime in Gotham and taking him down once and for all by breaking him. Let evil prevail. It's supposed to be the unstoppable evil that could buy any courts and corrupt or destroy anybody they want. Except for the goddamn Batman.

 

[Fenwick]

While i agree to that to some extent I must also look to War Games, and previous runs in which Gotham is this crime ridden hell hole. Everyone outside of Gotham speak sof how bad it is, and heroes look up to Batman for not making it any worse. So while run to run crime is not a constant the whole time of Batman seems to be making no real dent in crime. While Superman walking into metropolis is somehow all that is needed.

 

[Cain]

But why must you look at war games and stuff before that when that took place so long ago in comparison to something like the last Batman story that we got? obviously Batman has overcome many hurdles in fighting crime between those previous stories and R.I.P.

When you have Robin saying "seems like the only criminals left in Gotham are these stupid homemade guys the cops can take care of." I don't think that means Batman's skills at fighting crime are lacking in any way. Batman has clearly made a dent in eliminating crime in Gotham if it's gotten to the point you don't even need him as the cops are about as effective a crime fighting presence as you need in Gotham by the time R.I.P. began.

Again this is why the Black Glove was introduced, both Batman & Gotham needed a real criminal threat again because Batman's such a good hero he eliminated all the other ones.

 

[Rasputin911]

I always look at it as though Batman succeeded in quashing the gangsters/corrupt elements of Gotham, but inadvertently ushered in the "freaks." And now he sticks around to fix the mess he unitentionally created (whether he admits it or not)

A (shaky) parallel: USA invades Iraq and is able to remove Saddam and his party from power, but inadvertently opens the doors for Al Qaeda, street militias, etc.

 

[Rasputin911]

But why must you look at war games and stuff before that when that took place so long ago in comparison to something like the last Batman story that we got? obviously Batman has overcome many hurdles in fighting crime between those previous stories and R.I.P.

When you have Robin saying "seems like the only criminals left in Gotham are these stupid homemade guys the cops can take care of." I don't think that means Batman's skills at fighting crime are lacking in any way. Batman has clearly made a dent in eliminating crime in Gotham if it's gotten to the point you don't even need him as the cops are about as effective a crime fighting presence as you need in Gotham by the time R.I.P. began.

Again this is why the Black Glove was introduced, both Batman & Gotham needed a real criminal threat again because Batman's such a good hero he eliminated all the other ones.

but RIP sucks...

 

[Majic Walrus]

I ask this not in the, why look he saved the universe, or the JL, or even Superman scheme of things but in actual terms of saving the day. We look at heroes and point the good they do, yet in truth Gotham city seems like the worst place to live inside of the DC universe.

High crime rate, constant murder, corrupt police, the list goes on. Batman is a favorite character of mine, but after looking at various posts, and threads I am starting to get this feeling that perhaps his skills at fighting crime are somewhat lacking. I mean he is smart, determined, and all the time fighting crime, however has any dent been made? Superman, Green Arrow, Flash, and all the tohers live in cities with a lot of supervillians, but little street crime. Gotham has both. So is it fair to say that Batman does save the world, but kinda sucks at stopping crime?

What is it with you people!?

Crime doesn't stop. It's never Batman's goal to fight and end a war on crime. He understands that there is no final solution to crime and that he will not stop all crime and that's not the point. The point is continuing to battle evil.

Besides do you really want to read a story where Batman stops all crime? Isn't Batman fighting street level crime the reason we read Batman!?

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Besides do you really want to read a story where Batman stops all crime? Isn't Batman fighting street level crime the reason we read Batman!?

I think the problem is that too many writers portray things as having been worse since Batman appeared. I loved it in NML when Leslie noted that Crime Alley ,and by extension Gotham, while at its worst because of the quake at the time, had become a much better place because of Batman. There are also far too many cases of the GCPD STILL being corrupt when all logic says that thanks to Gordon and Bats it should be clean as a white sheet. That's what I want to see, a city far better with these heroes than it is without, and though evil fights on too these people have made it visible, this evil no longer blends into and controls society like it did as gangsters, now THEY are the outcasts.

 

[Cain]

but RIP sucks...

According to you. According to me it's a very solid story with one of the most interesting and stroongest Batman characterizations that I've seen in years. Your opinion is not a fact therefore there are people out there who did enjoy this story, myself included. My opinion is not fact as there are those out there who didn't enjoy the story such as yourself.

I understand that some people could never look past their own expectations when it comes to reading comic books. Those of us who look at an arc for what it actually is and not what we wanted it to be seem to make up a portion of the R.I.P. supporters. Where as those who had their comic book fan ego's bruised seem to make up a great deal of the detractors.

So to say "but RIP sucks" really makes no sense as the reaction to the story itself when it comes to the fanbase is divisive, there is no general consensus that it actually sucks.

 

[SuperFerret]

I think the problem is that too many writers portray things as having been worse since Batman appeared. I loved it in NML when Leslie noted that Crime Alley ,and by extension Gotham, while at its worst because of the quake at the time, had become a much better place because of Batman. There are also far too many cases of the GCPD STILL being corrupt when all logic says that thanks to Gordon and Bats it should be clean as a white sheet. That's what I want to see, a city far better with these heroes than it is without, and though evil fights on too these people have made it visible, this evil no longer blends into and controls society like it did as gangsters, now THEY are the outcasts.

Even if things have gotten worse since Bruce started his year-round trick or treating, Gotham is still better off with him than without him. The amount of crime has grown despite his presence, thus it would've grown without it as well. Add that to the amount of crime that he's stopped, and the superwhacko crowd, and you'll see that without Batman, there may not be a Gotham at all.

 

[Motown Marvel]

clearly they cant write batman as being too effective on crime, otherwise there'd be no comics. i mean, he needs crime to fight, right? so i think they generally walk the line of 'things are bad in gotham, but it'd be a lot worse without batman'.

 

[saska83]

Remember what Alfred said to Bruce in TDK:

You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation they turned to a man they didn't fully understand.

 

[The Batman]

Batman's skill as a hero should not be shortchanged because of hack writers...you know...like the guys who wrote war games?

I mean, you cite war games, but i can cite morrisons jla, which has a batman who takes out MARTIANS

you telling me thats not a good hero?

 

[GlasgowBat]

he's interesting, that's what matters.

he's also very good at his job.

 

[batpawn]

According to you. According to me it's a very solid story with one of the most interesting and stroongest Batman characterizations that I've seen in years. Your opinion is not a fact therefore there are people out there who did enjoy this story, myself included. My opinion is not fact as there are those out there who didn't enjoy the story such as yourself.

I understand that some people could never look past their own expectations when it comes to reading comic books. Those of us who look at an arc for what it actually is and not what we wanted it to be seem to make up a portion of the R.I.P. supporters. Where as those who had their comic book fan ego's bruised seem to make up a great deal of the detractors.

So to say "but RIP sucks" really makes no sense as the reaction to the story itself when it comes to the fanbase is divisive, there is no general consensus that it actually sucks.

please marry me. oh my, it's so good to see that i'm not the only person in the world who really liked rest in peace.

 

[batpawn]

@Topic
the question really is how you would interprate batman or how you want to see him. my batman is no hero, at all. i like the term that alan moore used in watchman, "masked avanger" very much. that's how i see batman. my batman is a masked vigilante who is working outside of the law, who has deep emotional und psychological problems and who only acts because of his own taste of vengeance and salvation.

so, "for me", batman is no hero. but there are so many batman storylines that take a different look on batman, that there is no definitive way to interpret batman. that's what makes him so interesting and so much fun to write. you see batman as a superhero? go forward and make a superhero out of him. you want batman to be a masked lunatic? here you are. batman has got over the years so many interesting comicbook concepts and interpretations. to ask if he is a good hero or not doesn't make very much sense, there is a comic book for every taste and look on the dark knight.

 

[kguillou]

I think Batman is a great hero, but some writers really really get carried away with what he is capable of. This is only opinion but i feel like Grant Morrison made Batman do things that are beyond the capacity of a normal human being, which batman is. For example, in RIP there was a flashback of Bruce being handed a cup of poison by some guy in which he was able to switch the cups which the guy in literally the blink of an eye. A blink of an eye is about 1/10th of a second and Bruce was able to take a cup and physically switch it without making sounds or anything by the time the guy unblinked. That is SUPERHUMANLY fast. Not even superman could do that. But i digress. Batman is the best at what he does, but he's only human at the end of the day and therefore he has limitations. Some writers like Morrison write him with no limitations, its no fun Batman can literally anticipate ANYTHING in the world. Where's the challenge then?

 

[Jorriss]

I think you can guys are jumping in on him for something that's a fair question.

Gotham starts in a terrible state of crime and gangwar, and after years of fighting crime, it's just as bad. Maybe he's prevented it from becoming worse but shouldn't it better?

 

[sty]

Gotham starts in a terrible state of crime and gangwar, and after years of fighting crime, it's just as bad. Maybe he's prevented it from becoming worse but shouldn't it better?

This is a fair point. Batman plays at being a vigilante by mopping up street crime and the occasional costumed lunatic but does nothing to address the causes of his community's sickness.

Why are street criminals bad? In Gotham it's because they're bad people who need discipline. The moral is you need to keep in line or you'll get your ass kicked by a wealthy capitalist... just like in real life.

If he wanted to make a real difference he'd open hospitals, refurbish schools, and fund prevention programs for children and adolescents. Maybe even start a movement for workers' rights to alleviate the exploitation of the poor by the super-rich like himself.

But that would not make a very exciting comic, I admit.

 

[Mutagen]

Batman at first, had an impact on petty criminals, that were it begins, the small potatoes. Then there came the super-criminals and their attention is needed first, because there intent is on a wider spectrum than thieves and rapists. When there is no super-criminals around, Batman's effect on Gotham should and probably is noticeable.

The lower class criminals are probably out like crazy when the Batman is fighting Joker, Clayface or Mister Freeze. Although the same can be said when Batman's main enemies are in jail, the police force is probably going crazy too, because they have the time to deal with the smaller stuff.