Ken Ham vs Bill Nye (Is creation a viable model of origins?)

[Hotwire]

They'd probably just say "Human being have been on Earth for thousands of years, and we haven't changed!" and that would be their proof.

However, we have changed. We've developed into different races from, according to creationists, Noah and his family. Also, as a species, we're getting taller.

 

[BestGirl]

However, we have changed. We've developed into different races from, according to creationists, Noah and his family. Also, as a species, we're getting taller.

I didn't say that was my reasoning. I said that would be a creationist's response. A creationist would probably just wave his hand and say God arranged any changes in people.

 

[Hotwire]

I didn't say that was my reasoning. I said that would be a creationist's response. A creationist would probably just wave his hand and say God arranged any changes in people.

Gotcha.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Science and rationality aren't exactly a creationist's forte.

"Thinking" isn't really their strong point

 

[chaseter]

Does the Holy Bible say that Adam and Eve's kids had incest if Adam and Eve were the only two people on the planet?

Secondly...what is more plausible: People in geographic groups created their own language so that they could communicate with each other or God put a different language into everyone and they had to roam the Earth until they found their fellow lingual-ites?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I do find this rather comical, given that there is proto-writing older than 4000 BC.

 

[SV Fan]

Secondly...what is more plausible: People in geographic groups created their own language so that they could communicate with each other or God put a different language into everyone and they had to roam the Earth until they found their fellow lingual-ites?

Actually the bible explains this one. The Tower of Babel(ie people tried to build a tower to the sky to get closer to god so god as punishment made them all talk in different languages so it would be hard to communicate) so they basically were already close together

In the case of Adam and Eve, if you take the bible literally, yeah incest. It's one of those things though it seems if you don't talk about it you won't have to think about it. It should be pointed out their would be a whole lot of incest going on after Noah's flood as well(although that would be cousin sex as opposed to brother sister sex)

 

[Thundercrack85]

That issue – Cain's wife – was actually raised... and not really resolved in the Scopes Trial.

Though the Bible isn't anti-incest, so I don't really see the issue. Well, except for... Leviticus. But we only pay attention to that if it's about gays.

 

[<(o_o)>]

Does the Holy Bible say that Adam and Eve's kids had incest if Adam and Eve were the only two people on the planet?

Secondly...what is more plausible: People in geographic groups created their own language so that they could communicate with each other or God put a different language into everyone and they had to roam the Earth until they found their fellow lingual-ites?

People in different geographic groups created their own language so that they could communicate with each other is more plausible.

 

[Thundercrack85]

People in different geographic groups created their own language so that they could communicate with each other is more plausible.

As opposed to God smashing a great big tower?

 

[SV Fan]

What the bible doesn't explain is how black people are black, white are white and asian have slanty eyes unless you count the Book of Mormon which clearly states how the races came about. lol

But if one doesn't follow Mormon theology, you have to buy into the idea that certain features on humans might change due to the environment they live in, which would mean you partially believe in some ideas of evolution

 

[Marvolo]

As opposed to God smashing a great big tower?

This is another one of those blatantly obvious parables in the bible that a few take literally. The tower of Babel wasn't real folks. It seems pretty obvious the Jews wrote it to teach a lesson not to literally tell how humans built a tower and God got all petty and scared and confused their language out of fear that they might advance as a species.

There are stories like this throughout mythology. The gods cursing a group for pride and going too far. All of them are meant to teach a lesson not be taken as fact and history. I'd be willing to bet if you asked a rabbi today if the tower of Babel really happened he'd laugh you out of the synagogue.

 

[KevanG]

As for the Tower of Babel, I'm pretty sure that we've built things much higher than that in the last few centuries. I wonder how planes and space travel work on that scale as well. You don't like us getting to be a certain height above the ground? **** you, we're going to the moon! Hah!

 

[Marvolo]

As for the Tower of Babel, I'm pretty sure that we've built things much higher than that in the last few centuries. I wonder how planes and space travel work on that scale as well. You don't like us getting to be a certain height above the ground? **** you, we're going to the moon! Hah!

Lol yeah people who take it literally don't seem to ever talk about this. How we have far exceeded the mythical tower of Babel, and yet God's like "oh well." If God had a problem with a tower and confused the languages for it he would have surely incinerated the earth for going to the moon. Hell we've sent a probe outside of our solar system. The pyramids are bigger of achievements than some tower.

 

[KevanG]

Hebrew predates Sumerian? Not likely. Hebrew has had known tablets dating back around 1000BC and Sumerian tablets have been recovered from as early as 3000BC.

 

[NickNitro]

I don't think this thread will ever die.

 

[KevanG]

Where do you get that information from? I've read studies Sumerian language (It's a hobby) at different times and from what I've seen as comparisons the difference in when Hebrew was in use compared to Sumerian was vast. The earliest possible use for it was seen many centuries after the Sumerians moved on and changed into other cultures over time.

 

[Dr.]

The exact timeline is unknown; but spoken language is thought to be at least 50-100,000 years old. E.g., it’s believed that Neanderthals could speak.

 

[KalMart]

We were speaking about what's been recorded and or written as opposed to what is believed to have occurred based on one's presuppositional worldview.

What are you referring to when you say 'recorded and/or written'? Because if it's the Bile, it has no scientific veracity and at best questionable historical accuracy.

 

[Dr.]

We were speaking about what's been recorded and or written as opposed to what is believed to have occurred based on one's presuppositional worldview.

Well just for instance… there’s archeological evidence that fermented beverages were being produced in China around 7000 BCE (3000 years before god invented the Universe ). This and other examples of early “technology” suggest a high level of cooperation - and therefore communication. In other words, artifacts (not just a written record) are strong indicators of spoken language.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The Bible = the longest game of "telephone" in human existence....

 

[childeroland]

The oldest known Hebrew inscriptions date to 3000 years ago at the earliest. Protosinatic script goes back to around 3,700 years ago at the earliest, Sumerian to 5,500 years ago.

 

[Breogan]

... it[The Bible] predicts and gives a reason for these differences based on the separate languages created by Jehovah.

The Bible and the Babel story doesn't predict squat. It's a retroactive fantastic story telling[mythology] to explain a phenomena that already existed. ie different languages.

That you think all separate languages just magically appeared fully formed in each place and time is ridiculous in the face of the evidence of how languages "evolved" from one another.

 

[chaseter]

The first recorded birth AFTER Adam and Eve ate the fruit they were not supposed to eat is that of Cain's birth. The next recorded birth is that of Able. Knowing that Gen 3:20 states, "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living," then one can deduce that when the Bible mentions Cain taking a wife, the woman was either technically his sister, or a niece.

So you believe that we as a race are born of incest and that the Bible supports incest? Gross. I am sure the Creationist model takes into account the non existent gene pool of the human race.

 

[chaseter]

We were speaking about what's been recorded and or written as opposed to what is believed to have occurred based on one's presuppositional worldview.

The Bible isn't historical record either. Ken Ham says that some is allegory, some are poems, and some are historical accounts. Then Bill Nye called him out on what is what and why we should believe man to tell us which is which. Sorry but the Bible isn't an exact record of human history...especially when there are other flood stories that predate the Bible.