Kobe today is as good as MJ ever was.

DarthRekal said:
so you're saying with a DILUTED eastern conference.. and the WEST being as HARD as it was for the PAST 5 yrs.... that LBJ gets MORE credit.. for skating... than fighting...???
Click to expand...

Replace Shaq on those teams with todays Zydrunas Illgauskus. Seriously, do they even make the playoffs?

and you act like MJ didnt have HELP:huh:.. scottie Pippen on the MOST Underrated players ever .. was on his team.. he was a TOP 50 all time for pete's sake..
Click to expand...

Of course MJ had help, but not always. He was the games best player statistically in his day until he got help, then he became the games greatest player of all time. Now you see the possible MJ-LeBron scenario.

i believe you are just biased... look.. ima homer i admit it.. i dont think Kobe is as good as MJ.. but you guys are bringing out YOUR OWN RULERS.. and MEASRUING STICKS...


no matter what happens... y'all will always hate...
Click to expand...

Im not biased and I like Kobe. I defended him during the his rape trial, love watching him play, and wish all the success in the world (unless hes playing the celtics) but numbers are numbers. They dont lie. Kobe is not even the best player statistically intodays game, thats LeBron.


Stats: Minutes..PPG..APG..RPG..FG%..SPG..BPG
Kobe: 38.53...28.3...5.4...6.3..45.9...1.8.. .5
LeBron: 40.23...30.0...7.2...7.9..48.4...1.8...1.1

LeBron leads Kobe in every major category. Shots per game show Kobe takes 20.8 shots per game while LeBron takes 21.8 shots per game. Lets talk consistancy.

Kobe - 82 games
- 68 games over 20 points
- 54 games over 25 points
- 37 games over 30 points
- 16 games over 35 points
- 7 games over 40 points
- 20 double-doubles
- 0 triple-doubles

LeBron - 75 games (played 7 less games than Kobe)
- 69 games over 20 points
- 59 games over 25 points
- 38 games over 30 points
- 18 games over 35 points
- 7 games over 40 points
- 29 double-doubles
- 7 triple-doubles

LeBron misses 7 more games than Kobe did but still was more consistant :rolleyes:

There is no argument, LeBron was the NBA's best player last year.
 
If we're talking pure stats, either Oscar or Wilt is the greatest NBA player of all time. \discussion

If it's complete body of work (stats, rings, MVPs, etc.), Kareem or MJ is the greatest ever. \discussion

I'm not talking about any of that here. What I'm asking is simple: Is Kobe's game right now on par w/ prime MJ's (specifically early 90's)? I myself would have to say yes (or 'true'). I believe he's a better shooter than MJ and when his shot's ON, more dangerous than any other player under 7' EVER. MJ edges Kobe out on D, but again, when both of them are on their respective games, I would have to give Kobe the slight edge on offense.

Am I saying Kobe > MJ? F NO!!!

What I am saying? Kobe's game today = MJ's game yesterday

And even if seeing it w/ your own eyes' not enough, by all means compare 07-08 Kobe v. 92-93 MJ stats...

(thanks for the posts all)
 
The "Kobe has 3 rings" argument has always been garbage to me. Kobe didn't start getting more prominent until the 2nd and 3rd title runs. LA's first championship in 2000 Kobe was inconsistent as hell but he had a monster HOF center putting up 30+ points and 15+ boards so it didn't really matter.

Kobe averaged 21 ppg, 4 rebs, 4 assists on 43% shooting (75% from the foul line) during the 2000 playoffs that year. Decent but nothing more than a rising star.

In the 2000 Finals he averaged a meager 16 ppg, 4 rebs, 4 assists on 36% shooting. If Jordan won his first ring with those numbers he would have hung himself...seriously. Lucky for Kobe he had a beast named Shaq putting up 38ppg, 16 rebs, and 4 assists while shooting 60% in the Finals. Imagine if Lebron had one of those last year. He'd be wearing jewelry right now. So yeah, Kobe got rings early in his career...good for him. Does that put him on Jordan's level? Hell no. Jordan did his thing as the Alpha dog at a high level for so long it became routine and people took it for granted. The guy is a legend and rightfully so.

In martial arts terms Jordan is Bruce Lee. He transcended his sport. Kobe is Bruce Li...a spinoff of a legend. Bruce Li could imitate Lee's moves and mannerisms (just like Kobe does with Jordan's moves, mannerisims, and swagger) but at the end of the day we all know we're watching a 2nd rate imitation no matter how good of a show they put on.
 
hitmanyr2k said:
The "Kobe has 3 rings" argument has always been garbage to me. Kobe didn't start getting more prominent until the 2nd and 3rd title runs. LA's first championship in 2000 Kobe was inconsistent as hell but he had a monster HOF center putting up 30+ points and 15+ boards so it didn't really matter.

Kobe averaged 21 ppg, 4 rebs, 4 assists on 43% shooting (75% from the foul line) during the 2000 playoffs that year. Decent but nothing more than a rising star.

In the 2000 Finals he averaged a meager 16 ppg, 4 rebs, 4 assists on 36% shooting. If Jordan won his first ring with those numbers he would have hung himself...seriously. Lucky for Kobe he had a beast named Shaq putting up 38ppg, 16 rebs, and 4 assists while shooting 60% in the Finals. Imagine if Lebron had one of those last year. He'd be wearing jewelry right now. So yeah, Kobe got rings early in his career...good for him. Does that put him on Jordan's level? Hell no. Jordan did his thing as the Alpha dog at a high level for so long it became routine and people took it for granted. The guy is a legend and rightfully so.

In martial arts terms Jordan is Bruce Lee. He transcended his sport. Kobe is Bruce Li...a spinoff of a legend. Bruce Li could imitate Lee's moves and mannerisms (just like Kobe does with Jordan's moves, mannerisims, and swagger) but at the end of the day we all know we're watching a 2nd rate imitation no matter how good of a show they put on.
Click to expand...


Go back and watch Game 4 of the 2000 Finals and then tell me that Kobe had little to do with the Lakers winning that championship.
 
Kobe bryant will never be like MJ...... EVER
 
I'm in the tyson busting ali's face open back then, boxing was a whole new ball game in the 80s and even then tyson was something else completely. clean and deadly. A machine.
 
Soundwave said:
Go back and watch Game 4 of the 2000 Finals and then tell me that Kobe had little to do with the Lakers winning that championship.
Click to expand...

One good game in the Finals...big deal. The next game Kobe shoots 4-20 and scores 8 points. That's the whole point. Kobe was inconsistent as hell during that playoff run. He mixed good games with horrible ones. Similar to Lebron now his jumpshot was erratic. The Lakers didn't need Kobe anywhere near his best to win playoff games or to win a title that year. In contrast the Bulls ALWAYS needed Jordan at his very best to win and year after year Jordan delivered. There's no comparison here. The "Kobe has 3 rings" argument is garbage and always has been. Kobe had the luxury of a HOF center sucking in double and triple-teams allowing him to go one on one the majority of the time. Kobe wouldn't even have been in the playoffs back then without Shaq.
 
No he isn't.

Michael is one of the best if not the best of all-time. There both great awesome players for sure though.

CAREER AVERAGES
REBOUNDS PER GAME
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
84-85 CHI 82 82 38.3 .515 .173 .845 2.0 4.5 6.5 5.9 2.39 .84 3.55 3.50 28.2
85-86 CHI 18 7 25.1 .457 .167 .840 1.3 2.3 3.6 2.9 2.06 1.17 2.50 2.60 22.7
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
90-91 CHI 82 82 37.0 .539 .312 .851 1.4 4.6 6.0 5.5 2.72 1.01 2.46 2.80 31.5
91-92 CHI 80 80 38.8 .519 .270 .832 1.1 5.3 6.4 6.1 2.28 .94 2.50 2.50 30.1
92-93 CHI 78 78 39.3 .495 .352 .837 1.7 5.0 6.7 5.5 2.83 .78 2.65 2.40 32.6
94-95 CHI 17 17 39.3 .411 .500 .801 1.5 5.4 6.9 5.3 1.76 .76 2.06 2.80 26.9
95-96 CHI 82 82 37.7 .495 .427 .834 1.8 4.8 6.6 4.3 2.20 .51 2.40 2.40 30.4
96-97 CHI 82 82 37.9 .486 .374 .833 1.4 4.5 5.9 4.3 1.71 .54 2.02 1.90 29.6
97-98 CHI 82 82 38.8 .465 .238 .784 1.6 4.2 5.8 3.5 1.72 .55 2.26 1.80 28.7
01-02 WAS 60 53 34.9 .416 .189 .790 .8 4.8 5.7 5.2 1.42 .43 2.70 2.00 22.9
02-03 WAS 82 67 37.0 .445 .291 .821 .9 5.2 6.1 3.8 1.50 .48 2.11 2.10 20.0
Career 1072 1039 38.3 .497 .327 .835 1.6 4.7 6.2 5.3 2.35 .80 2.73 2.60 30.1
Playoff 179 179 41.8 .487 .332 .828 1.7 4.7 6.4 5.7 2.10 .88 3.05 3.00 33.4
All-Star 13 13 29.4 .472 .273 .750 1.7 3.0 4.7 4.2 2.85 .46 3.23 2.40 20.2


CAREER TOTALS
REBOUNDS
YEAR TEAM G GS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
84-85 CHI 82 82 3,144 837-1,625 9-52 630-746 167 367 534 481 196 69 291 285 2,313
85-86 CHI 18 7 451 150-328 3-18 105-125 23 41 64 53 37 21 45 46 408
86-87 CHI 82 82 3,281 1,098-2,279 12-66 833-972 166 264 430 377 236 125 272 237 3,041
87-88 CHI 82 82 3,311 1,069-1,998 7-53 723-860 139 310 449 485 259 131 252 270 2,868
88-89 CHI 81 81 3,255 966-1,795 27-98 674-793 149 503 652 650 234 65 290 247 2,633
89-90 CHI 82 82 3,197 1,034-1,964 92-245 593-699 143 422 565 519 227 54 247 241 2,753
90-91 CHI 82 82 3,034 990-1,837 29-93 571-671 118 374 492 453 223 83 202 229 2,580
91-92 CHI 80 80 3,102 943-1,818 27-100 491-590 91 420 511 489 182 75 200 201 2,404
92-93 CHI 78 78 3,067 992-2,003 81-230 476-569 135 387 522 428 221 61 207 188 2,541
94-95 CHI 17 17 668 166-404 16-32 109-136 25 92 117 90 30 13 35 47 457
95-96 CHI 82 82 3,090 916-1,850 111-260 548-657 148 395 543 352 180 42 197 195 2,491
96-97 CHI 82 82 3,106 920-1,892 111-297 480-576 113 369 482 352 140 44 166 156 2,431
97-98 CHI 82 82 3,181 881-1,893 30-126 565-721 130 345 475 283 141 45 185 151 2,357
01-02 WAS 60 53 2,093 551-1,324 10-53 263-333 50 289 339 310 85 26 162 119 1,375
02-03 WAS 82 67 3,031 679-1,527 16-55 266-324 71 426 497 311 123 39 173 171 1,640
Career 1072 1039 41,011 12,192-24,537 581-1,778 7,327-8,772 1,668 5,004 6,672 5,633 2,514 893 2,924 2,783 32,292
Playoff 179 179 7,474 2,188-4,497 148-446 1,463-1,766 305 847 1,152 1,022 376 158 546 541 5,987
All-Star 13 13 382 110-233 3-11 39-52 22 39 61 54 37 6 42 31 262


CAREER TRANSACTIONS
Selected after junior season by the Chicago Bulls in the first round (third pick overall) of the 1984 NBA Draft....Announced retirement on 10/6/93....Activated from retirement on 3/18/95....Announced retirement on 1/13/99....Activated from retirement on 9/25/01....Signed as a free agent with the Washington Wizards on 9/25/01.



Season Highs / Career Highs
2002-03 HIGHS CAREER HIGHS
Points 45 vs. New Orleans 02/01/03 69 @ Cleveland 03/28/90
Field Goals Made 18 2 Times 27 vs. Orlando 01/16/93
Field Goals Attempted 33 vs. New Orleans 02/01/03 49 vs. Orlando 01/16/93
Three Point Field Goals Made 3 2 Times 7 vs. Golden State 01/18/90
Three Point Field Goals Attempted 4 vs. Indiana 01/04/03 12 vs. Golden State 01/18/90
Free Throws Made 13 @ New York 03/09/03 26 vs. New Jersey 02/26/87
Free Throws Attempted 16 @ Detroit 12/04/02 27 vs. New Jersey 02/26/87
Offensive Rebounds 5 @ New York 01/11/03 8 4 Times
Defensive Rebounds 13 @ Atlanta 04/03/03 14 @ New Jersey 03/16/96
Total Rebounds 14 @ Atlanta 04/03/03 18 2 Times
Assists 12 @ L.A. Clippers 02/12/03 17 @ Portland 03/24/89
Steals 6 @ Detroit 12/04/02 10 vs. New Jersey 01/29/88
Blocks 3 @ Miami 03/02/03 6 @ Seattle 12/02/86
Minutes Played 53 vs. Indiana 01/04/03 56 @ Utah 02/03/92



Look at those awesome stats. :)
 
hitmanyr2k said:
One good game in the Finals...big deal. The next game Kobe shoots 4-20 and scores 8 points. That's the whole point. Kobe was inconsistent as hell during that playoff run. He mixed good games with horrible ones. Similar to Lebron now his jumpshot was erratic. The Lakers didn't need Kobe anywhere near his best to win playoff games or to win a title that year. In contrast the Bulls ALWAYS needed Jordan at his very best to win and year after year Jordan delivered. There's no comparison here. The "Kobe has 3 rings" argument is garbage and always has been. Kobe had the luxury of a HOF center sucking in double and triple-teams allowing him to go one on one the majority of the time. Kobe wouldn't even have been in the playoffs back then without Shaq.
Click to expand...

You do make excellent points but if you remember that year, Kobe was injured during the Finals with a bum ankle. He missed most of Game 2 and all of Game 3 in the Finals that year. They won Game 2 and lost in Game 3. And in Game 4, after Shaq fouled out Kobe completely took the game over in OT and single-handedly won that game. If Kobe doesn't have that performance the Pacers win and tie the series at 2 and you never know what could happen at that point. Yes his shooting percentage wasn't very high, but what player is gonna shoot well on a bad ankle? You're going to have inconsistency when you're injured. Just look at Manu Ginobli during this year's playoffs.

Yeah Shaq was the most dominant force in the league back then, but Kobe was the "closer" on that team. They would not even give Shaq the ball in crunch time on several occasions because of his poor free throw shooting. Kobe and Robert Horry were making all the cluth shots for them. Kobe wouldn't have won 3 rings without Shaq, but Shaq wouldn't have won them without Kobe either.

MJ is still the best we've ever seen but Kobe's talent and his clutch play is comparable to His Airness.
 
KB is a great player. But he is just now even approaching the level where Jordan resided for 10 years. KB is more comparable to Jordan circa 95-98, more reliant on the jumpshot and choosing his spots. No player has, and probably ever will approach what Jordan did 87-92. Here is a statistical side by side comparison.

http://www.kb24overrated.com/statistical_comparison_pt_i
http://www.kb24overrated.com/statistical_comparison_pt_ii
http://www.kb24overrated.com/game_by_game_performance
http://www.kb24overrated.com/game_by_game_performance_pt_ii
http://www.kb24overrated.com/season_by_season_performance_pt_i
http://www.kb24overrated.com/season_by_season_performance_pt_ii
http://www.kb24overrated.com/in-depth_statistics

As you will see, Jordan operated at freakish level of efficiency. Its not really all that close.
 
kb24overrated.com :lmao:
 
November Rain said:
I'm in the tyson busting ali's face open back then, boxing was a whole new ball game in the 80s and even then tyson was something else completely. clean and deadly. A machine.
Click to expand...

Ali would mangle him
 
I think Kobe has allegedly raped more girls than Jordan. :up:
 
does anyone feel that the general higher expectancy of sports in this day and age makes it harder for people to shine in comparison to yesteryear.

surely kobe must be going up against a higher calibre of players than perhaps jordan was?
 
If you want to compare stats, at least do it right! Take away Kobe's first 3 seasons to account for MJ's college years and only look at MJ's first 9 years in the league. And go from there...

Kobe's 1999-2008 Stats
28.3 PPG
45.5 FG%
33.1 3P%
84.1 FT%
5.9 RPG
5.3 APG
1.7 SPG
0.6 BPG
3.2 TO

Jordan's 1984-1993 Stats
32.3 PPG
51.2 FG%
24.9 3P%
84.5 FT%
6.1 RPG
5.6 APG
2.7 SPG
1.0 BPG
3.0 TO

So according to the stats, Kobe is the better 3-pt shooter but MJ is the better scorer and defender (supposedly). However, MJ played in a league where a flagrant foul was ball-out or 2 free-throws as opposed to an ejection/suspension; this makes MJ's stats on offense that much more impressive, but his stats on D takes a hit because he obviously was allowed to play tougher D than Kobe. Thus MJ>Kobe on offense (except 3-pointers) may be more true than MJ>Kobe on D. Again, this is all stats; without stats and just looking at their individual games though, when both their shots are going, I'll take Kobe>MJ on offense. But every other day, it's got to be MJ.
 
Tss not in my book, Kobe isnt anywhere near the player MJ was
 
MJ doesnt let his team lose a 24 point lead in the Finals...



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