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L.A. prisons to use military heat ray to keep unruly inmates in line

Poetic Chaos said:
And the police typically have to calm riots using blunt force trauma so the heat ray is far more humane by comparison.
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Yeah but they want to use this device beyond prison riots.

Using it for "bringing difficult immates under control" could include just about any unruly behavior.
 
MessiahDecoy123, do you feel that tasers are inhumane? (forget why the taser may be used, just assume for a minute that it truly is warranted).

I will follow that up with this question. Have you ever been on the receiving end of a taser?
 
BlackLantern said:
no, they were beat with batons and sprayed with mace....both of which are methods that can cause extreme physical or permanent damage

if something can be developed that is not as severe as a metal baton, Id support it
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I fear the heat ray will be abused. Instead of using it only for riots, it will be used for any inmate who refuses to be cuffed or doesn't follow instructions.

Cell extractions are used sparingly because they're difficult. What will happen when you can just push a button over and over again untill an inmate submits to your will. That's just begging for abuse.
 
mrvlknight21 said:
MessiahDecoy123, do you feel that tasers are inhumane? (forget why the taser may be used, just assume for a minute that it truly is warranted).

I will follow that up with this question. Have you ever been on the receiving end of a taser?
Click to expand...
I feel tasers are fine when warranted but the problem is that police use them to punish rebellious people rather than subdue dangerous threats.

and I have been tased. In the back of my neck among other places.
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
I feel tasers are fine when warranted but the problem is that police use them to punish rebellious people rather than subdue dangerous threats.

and I have been tased. In the back of my neck among other places.
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Alright good. Then you know the feeling of a taser (not sure why you mentioned the fact that it was on the back of your neck, was it a drive stun or a shot using the prongs? If it was a drive stun, then its not as severe as the prong method).
I also know how the taser feels, along with other means of often used methods of control/compliance including pepper spray.
That being said, imo and based on my experience, the taser is more humane and/or safer than any other method that I have seen, used or experienced.

Yes, there is always a chance of abuse, as I covered earlier in at least 2 of my posts. Police that use it definitely need a good amount of proper training before ever using one.
But some people think that the taser is over-used a lot more than it really is. The issue is, when you see a case like that (of true abuse of the taser) on the news, there were probably hundreds and hundreds of cases where it was used properly. I recently worked a case with the FBI where a girl claimed that she was tased after being cuffed. Now this is a CLEAR violation of ANY policy I have ever seen. However, after many hours on the case, the girl came forward and retracted her statement. A lot of people have no freaking idea of the policy of when to use a taser and simply assume that a cop shouldnt use it until they have tried verbal and physical attempts to gain compliance...when that is NOT the case in any policy I have ever read/heard about or in my department's policy.

No person is perfect, thus no policeman is perfect. Some are good and follow policy and some are bad. I still like to believe that the good ones far outnumber the bad ones, but I am not naive enough to think that there never are abuses.

Back to the issue of this article and thread. It seems, based on the information provided, that this is a good and humane tool to gain compliance from unruly prisoners, in my opinion. And it is obviously safer for everyone involved.
 
mrvlknight21 said:
Alright good. Then you know the feeling of a taser (not sure why you mentioned the fact that it was on the back of your neck, was it a drive stun or a shot using the prongs? If it was a drive stun, then its not as severe as the prong method).
I also know how the taser feels, along with other means of often used methods of control/compliance including pepper spray.
That being said, imo and based on my experience, the taser is more humane and/or safer than any other method that I have seen, used or experienced.

Yes, there is always a chance of abuse, as I covered earlier in at least 2 of my posts. Police that use it definitely need a good amount of proper training before ever using one.
But some people think that the taser is over-used a lot more than it really is. The issue is, when you see a case like that (of true abuse of the taser) on the news, there were probably hundreds and hundreds of cases where it was used properly. I recently worked a case with the FBI where a girl claimed that she was tased after being cuffed. Now this is a CLEAR violation of ANY policy I have ever seen. However, after many hours on the case, the girl came forward and retracted her statement. A lot of people have no freaking idea of the policy of when to use a taser and simply assume that a cop shouldnt use it until they have tried verbal and physical attempts to gain compliance...when that is NOT the case in any policy I have ever read/heard about or in my department's policy.

No person is perfect, thus no policeman is perfect. Some are good and follow policy and some are bad. I still like to believe that the good ones far outnumber the bad ones, but I am not naive enough to think that there never are abuses.

Back to the issue of this article and thread. It seems, based on the information provided, that this is a good and humane tool to gain compliance from unruly prisoners, in my opinion. And it is obviously safer for everyone involved.
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I mentioned where I got tased because I felt the neck tase was sadistic and unnecessary.

We don't know how often police abuse taser use but we can't say they're rare for sure.

The heat ray may be a reasonable way to deal with unruly prisoners but I have a problem with a broad definition for the term unruly. That is how these weapons become routine instead of isolated.
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
I fear the heat ray will be abused. Instead of using it only for riots, it will be used for any inmate who refuses to be cuffed or doesn't follow instructions.

Cell extractions are used sparingly because they're difficult. What will happen when you can just push a button over and over again untill an inmate submits to your will. That's just begging for abuse.
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The baton can be abused, as can the mace, tear gas, tazers, and hell, even the guard's own hands. All of them can be used in ways to torture, but they aren't. This is a device that would allow prison guards to avoid potentially life threatening situations. Situations where an unruly prisoner is fighting other officers, biting them, stabbing them with a shank he made, you name it. The device enables them to cause a burning sensation without actually doing any damage to the prisoner, or the guard for that matter, to get him to comply.

I think the biggest point you are missing with this device, is that it is not powerful enough to cause damage to person it's being used on. The device DOES NOT burn them. It only penetrates the skin 1/64 inch! A tattoo needle goes deeper than that! AND IT ONLY LASTS 3 SECONDS!!

Also, I'm going to up the ante on Blacklantern's question. How would you recommend subduing 20 angry rioting prisoners with homemade weapons? And you have to use non-lethal methods that have no lasting effects.
 
I know 3M and another company were trying to develop quick hardening foam (or something in that arena) but it has not been found to be cost effective or achieved the desired effect
 
BlackLantern said:
I know 3M and another company were trying to develop quick hardening foam (or something in that arena) but it has not been found to be cost effective or achieved the desired effect
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That would have been cool! Like the foam in Speed racer, huh?
 
yes....I saw a demonstration on tv once of a prototype......it took to long to harden and only hardened on the surface.

it was reddish, kind of clay colored
 
One, this is awesome because it's like Star Trek. Two, this isn't awesome because it's likely going to be expensive on the taxpayers. Three, this might be awesome if we can decide if it's humane or not. (Hint: Humane = not awesome.)
 
when it cuts bricks in half, that's when I'll get interested
 
You can never go too far when it comes to keeping prisoners in line.
 
if by too far, you mean best weapon ever, than yes....too far
 
Karate taught sharks? What's next, sharks with an enhanced brain like in Deep Blue Sea?
 
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