The Last Jedi Laura Dern IS Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo

[Mjölnir]

Because

Spoiler

1) the Resistance was literally on its last legs. why not have everyone clear on the objective? 2) Poe isn't just a nobody, he's a friend of Leia's (who trained Holdo) and destroyed Starkiller Base just days before 3) it would have taken 20 seconds.

Spoiler

Yes, why wouldn't she make everyone on the ship aware of the plan and ready to evacuate so the plan can be executed quicker and more easily?

It's also quite obvious that if you don't say anything to the crew to give hem hope they might start to despair if it just looks like they are waiting to die.
That's what you as a leader is there to prevent, but they had Holdo, that's supposed to be a great leader, do the opposite.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Plus--

Spoiler

Good leaders-- whether Admirals in Star Wars or a manager at a local fast food chain-- are supposed to get the best out of their teams and guide them to accomplishing goals.

In the movie, it's a dire situation. The Republic is destroyed (ugh), as is much of their fleet and fighters, their leaders on their own ship is either dead (Ackbar) or close to (Leia). And they've got a fleet of enemy ships bearing down on them as they run out of fuel. It's only natural that the crew would be scared and looking for a plan.

Holdo should have been inspiring them. She should have been transparent, she should have assured them they have a plan and told them what it was, then kept them focused on working together to complete that goal. She should have instilled in them the spark of hope the movie keeps talking about.

But she didn't. Either out of stubbornness, or ego, or a misguided/mistimed lesson.

I get the drama of it, and I get the mentor/student theme the movie had all around, and Poe learning that being a hero isn't always flashy etc. I like those things-- But it didn't work on a logical, practical level, and that undercuts it all.

Yeah I agree with this. It was also weird how Poe and everyone seemed to not even know who she was. She just appeared and was like, “I’m in command. Now leave me alone while I silently stare out a window.”

 

[Orba]

Plus--

Spoiler

Good leaders-- whether Admirals in Star Wars or a manager at a local fast food chain-- are supposed to get the best out of their teams and guide them to accomplishing goals.

In the movie, it's a dire situation. The Republic is destroyed (ugh), as is much of their fleet and fighters, their leaders on their own ship is either dead (Ackbar) or close to (Leia). And they've got a fleet of enemy ships bearing down on them as they run out of fuel. It's only natural that the crew would be scared and looking for a plan.

Holdo should have been inspiring them. She should have been transparent, she should have assured them they have a plan and told them what it was, then kept them focused on working together to complete that goal. She should have instilled in them the spark of hope the movie keeps talking about.

But she didn't. Either out of stubbornness, or ego, or a misguided/mistimed lesson.

I get the drama of it, and I get the mentor/student theme the movie had all around, and Poe learning that being a hero isn't always flashy etc. I like those things-- But it didn't work on a logical, practical level, and that undercuts it all.

Remember what Holdo says in her speech

Spoiler

"Hope is like the Sun, if you only believe in it when you see it you'll never make it through the night"

 

[Mjölnir]

Remember what Holdo says in her speech

Spoiler

"Hope is like the Sun, if you only believe in it when you see it you'll never make it through the night"

Yet [BLACKOUT]people that didn't have hope and took matters into their own mutinous hands survived and a big part of the remaining Resistance, that we never got to see have despair, died because of it. Clearly the saying wasn't correct, and clearly it would all have worked out better if she just tried to be a good leader instead. Hope would be to trust that the plan would work, rather than to think that the leader that doesn't look to be doing anything has plan at all. Not that I know how she managed to hide that they were draining the feul and tanking the pods from anyone to begin with.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Batgort]

felt like many forced twists.... AND THEN (reveal), they do some stuff... AND THEN!! (reveal).

Instead of a "I'm your father" ESB moment, we get a dozen little twists that felt like a choose your own adventure playing out, by the end I couldn't believe we just kinda drifted in space for a bit.

Spoiler

As for Admiral Holdo - good, better if she was like Leia's apprentice "Leia taught me that" could have been a little bit of a hint of a force user or something.

Instead, I feel like she was a refugee from the casino planet and maybe the spy who had let them track the rebels.

 

[TheVileOne]

Remember what Holdo says in her speech

Spoiler

"Hope is like the Sun, if you only believe in it when you see it you'll never make it through the night"

I remember what she said. It's flimsy at best.

 

[BatSpider]

Regarding THAT scene

Spoiler

Her death scene would have been so powerful, had it been almost any other major player in the film. Leia, Poe, Finn etc. Feel they dropped the ball big time.

 

[C. Lee]

Are members of the rebellion allowed to make mistakes? Great generals and leaders throughout history have made mistakes. It happens. We hate it when it's a good guy and the mistake leads to good guys dying....but it happens.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Spoiler

I think they wrote themselves into a corner. They wanted to give Finn a good side adventure. And they also wanted to do the resistance on a ticking clock getting chased by the First Order storyline. All along with the theme of "failure being a teacher".

If Holdo told the truth and the plan worked, there isn't really a need for the Finn plot. Likewise if someone else where in charge like Leia (or if Ackbar survived) Poe would have trusted there judgement more.

 

[godisawesome]

Yes, but it's an exceptionally poor decision with very little justification in the poorest plotted section of the film. Holdo being paranoid and keeping her mouth shut could be established in one sentence, and boom! Problem solved. Poe being dissatisfied with the plan and deciding to pursue another objective could take one sentence, and boom! Problem solved.

In Holdo's plot, everything runs off dramatic convenience. Whatever would be the most dramatic thing to happen, will happen, no matter how little it makes sense:

Spoiler

Poe asks what their plan is? She won't tell him!... But why the hell not? "We're heading for sanctuary" takes less than five seconds. "I fear spies among us" is the same. Literally, the film gives no acceptable reason for her not to properly brief people on a really, really simple plan, and doesn't give her a good reason not too. The little line she gives about hope is also all kinds of stupid:

"Hope is like the Sun, if you only believe in it when you see it you'll never make it through the night." So, it's better to keep everyone in the dark about what your plan is so they can work their hope muscles up? Keeping quiet is literally a plan that damages morale, dangerously so.

Holdo and Leia retake the ship!... But why stun Poe and the bridge crew? Then you have to carry them off the ship, when they've clearly already been stunned by Leia's appearance, are aware their current plan failed, and Leia can (and later does) explain her plan in a few seconds.

Holdo Rams the Supremacy! In an admittedly awesome visual scene)... But if hyperspace ramming is so damn effective, why has no one done it before? Hell, why didn't the cruiser captain evac his ship early and do that. It's a one hit kill move, apparently ignores all shields, and seems impossible to stop unless you shoot the ship, when they're all out of effective range. Again, it wouldn't be that hard to make this part more intelligent: just have Finn or Rose deactivate the shields in a part for the Supremacy, have Holdo notice that, and establish that's why it works.

Dern was stuck in a plot riddled with convenient errors of judgement and going around in a circle really just to delay that plot's progress until Act III.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Badly managed and evolved character entrance and arc, even her purpose and sole aim of delivery of the 'why' and reasoning was off and didn't tie in with events around her and I felt the [BLACKOUT]switch[/BLACKOUT] they tried was handled SO badly and even worse was [BLACKOUT]Leia's 'ahh well' attitude to her seemingly clear cut 'might be bad/might be bad pay off.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[SomeOldGuy]

The only mistake Holdo made was

Spoiler

not throwing Poe’s insubordinate *** into the brig to begin with. She and Poe had never even laid eyes on each other before she takes command, and all she knows of him is he just got demoted for disobeying orders and getting a whole bunch of people killed. Any junior officer who does what he did in an actual navy would be confined. So yeah, just telling him to go pound sand was an error.

And as it turns out, Holdo was right about not trusting him with the plan. I mean, what does he do once he finds out? He goes and blabs it on the radio!!! Which of course results in the Empire finding out. Good job Poe!

I take it back. Holdo’s mistake wasn’t not putting him in irons. She should have just had him shot. Would have saved a lot of lives.

 

[Mjölnir]

The only mistake Holdo made was

Spoiler

not throwing Poe’s insubordinate *** into the brig to begin with. She and Poe had never even laid eyes on each other before she takes command, and all she knows of him is he just got demoted for disobeying orders and getting a whole bunch of people killed. Any junior officer who does what he did in an actual navy would be confined. So yeah, just telling him to go pound sand was an error.

And as it turns out, Holdo was right about not trusting him with the plan. I mean, what does he do once he finds out? He goes and blabs it on the radio!!! Which of course results in the Empire finding out. Good job Poe!

I take it back. Holdo’s mistake wasn’t not putting him in irons. She should have just had him shot. Would have saved a lot of lives.

Well

Spoiler

You could hope that Poe, Finn and Rose to get charged with treason in Episode IX as they caused the death of a big part of the remaining Resistance. I have a feeling that they'll just kind of shrug it off though.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Well

Spoiler

You could hope that Poe, Finn and Rose to get charged with treason in Episode IX as they caused the death of a big part of the remaining Resistance. I have a feeling that they'll just kind of shrug it off though.

Spoiler

After what happened in TLJ I’m not sure there are enough senior officers left to staff a board of inquiry!

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Holdo was a completely useless character

Laura Dern was heavily underutilized

 

[Frodo]

Dern and Del Torro both seemed out of place in the film. Dern's character was better by leaps and bounds than Del Torro's , but she still seemed out of place to me at least.

 

[ron1705]

Dern was fantastic, as always. Loved her arc.

 

[titansupes]

Are members of the rebellion allowed to make mistakes? Great generals and leaders throughout history have made mistakes. It happens. We hate it when it's a good guy and the mistake leads to good guys dying....but it happens.

If it were written that way-- that she made a mistake and had to learn from it etc-- I may have been able to get onboard. But it's not. It's written as if she had done the right thing and Poe was foolish to question her.

 

[godisawesome]

Dern was fantastic, as always. Loved her arc.

What arc? She was a cardboard cutout of the anatagonistic authority figure, than she was the cardboard cutout of the brave military commander. She didn't change at all, and the half baked answer they gave for her lack of briefing the troops was painfully stupid.

One scene, she was the stern officer who doesn't like hotshot pilots and refuses to answer obvious questions, the next she gives some faux-philosophical doublespeak which doesn't match what she's trying to communicate, then she just becomes a less interesting Raddus.

 

[titansupes]

Raddus>>> Ackbar>>>>>>> Holdo.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Spoiler

Instead, I feel like she was a refugee from the casino planet and maybe the spy who had let them track the rebels.

Spoiler

The fact that you thought there was a spy on board could entirely have justified her decision. Maybe she thought they weren't being tracked through lightspeed, but through a spy?

Spoiler

If Holdo told the truth and the plan worked, there isn't really a need for the Finn plot. Likewise if someone else where in charge like Leia (or if Ackbar survived) Poe would have trusted there judgement more.

Spoiler

Do you think Poe would have agreed with this plan if he had known it?

 

[BatLobster]

Idk, I mean certainly I think it's valid to disagree with Holdo's leadership style but I think SomeOldGuy makes an equally valid point about how Poe's actions kind of justify it at the same time.

She was a supporting character, there to support/facilitate Poe's character development in the film. Really doesn't feel like that big a deal to me. The hope bit is a bit cheese, sure...but it's STAR WARS, and heck I think that message resonates like hell in 2017, and felt good to hear in a SW film. I thought that and the Finn/Rose "we win by saving what we love" bits, while cheesy, offered cool bits of insight to the ideals the Resistance/Rebellion is fighting for- which is a cool thing to see for the first time.

 

[godisawesome]

The problem with the Hope quote is that it makes no sense. If Rebellions are built on hope (to use a phrase from Rogue One) then what the hell is wrong with giving your men hope to build on?

There's no strategic or logical reason to deny the information to the officers, and actual concrete reasons centered in morale and operational focus to share the info. Holdo may have the right as an officer to deny the information, particularly to an insubordinate officer, but it comes close to negligence to not recognize the need for some kind of briefing in that desperate hour, and is clearly meant by the screenplay to be an antagonistic move to justify our heroes going rogue. Once you've set up that scenario, you can't really just insist the officer was in the right, at least not in fiction.

The simplest reason the film gives for Holdo not briefing everyone is that's she's either too lazy, too stubborn, or too incompetent to realize the value of her instructions. But there's no attempt to address that.

The script depends on the audience using our broad knowledge of archetypal authority figures clashing with anti-heroes for this reasoning. That's not good enough. Not for what ends up being a dead end plot.

 

[BatLobster]

Fair enough. Although I would argue that Star Wars as a whole has always relied on our broad archetypal associations for like...everything.

I'm not going to argue that it wasn't a bit weak plot-wise, though. It's not like the movie is really trying to make a case that she's a great tactical leader though. I guess I saw that as her trying to live up to Leia's ideals as she filled in for her, and in that sense it works OK for me.

Either way, fairly minor issue for me. Didn't feel the need to be spoonfed any more reasoning for it, but who knows...there's 30 minutes of deleted scenes, maybe we'll see some relevant stuff that got cut.

 

[Iceman]

Dern and Del Torro both seemed out of place in the film. Dern's character was better by leaps and bounds than Del Torro's , but she still seemed out of place to me at least.

Yeah, both characters were disappointing to me given the actors they managed to get for the roles.