The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[Romannen]

I'm on Twitter now-- He's still there.

I read this post. Could be wrong, of course.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kc59l/rian_johnson_has_stopped_being_as_active_on/

 

[titansupes]

I read this post. Could be wrong, of course.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kc59l/rian_johnson_has_stopped_being_as_active_on/

Eh, I think it's too early to say he's not as active now. His last post was ten hours ago. If he hasn't said anything in a few weeks, then maybe.

Sidenote, he replied to one of my Tweets about the movie Mother a couple of months ago. For a good couple of weeks my notifications were going NUTS. I can't imagine what it's like for celebs on there.

 

[Mjölnir]

He didn't kill Vader because he stopped himself at the last minute. Seconds before he was

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Is him having a split second reaction that he immediately gets control of so impossible?
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That's a good example why having the instinct to kill his sister's son is so wrong. Even when he was angry, due to his sister being threatened, and in the midst of battle he could never get himself to kill Vader (whom he never gave up on despite that he was not only immersed in the dark side, he had gone on to kill billions of people). But now he's supposedly a person that gets the instinct of murdering family members in cold blood because they might turn out bad?

 

[BatLobster]

He didn't kill Vader because he stopped himself at the last minute. Seconds before he was

​

Is him having a split second reaction that he immediately gets control of so impossible?
​

Yes! Exactly this! Luke did not give in. As he says, it was a fleeting, shameful impulse that he had to tragically pay the price for.

It was basically the ol' "if you could go back in time and kill baby Hitler, would you"? moral conundrum. But in this case, Luke was confronting the fact that his nephew was certainly/inevitably going to tear down and negate all his hard-fought victories. It's a complex situation, but I don't think it was pushed too far. If Kylo's version of events were the true one, then yeah...I'd agree. But of course we still trust Luke's version of the story, which to me is the tell that it wasn't taken too far. We believe him because he's still Luke Skywalker and he never turned to the dark side.

The sequel trilogy was always intended by George to deal in the grey, and I found the development in this film with Luke, Kylo and Rey really satisfied that.

Simply put, if Johnson had handled Luke's failure with kid gloves, the ending would not have felt as earned as it did. But even so, I still think it was handled in a nuanced, "from a certain point of view" kind of way that kept both Luke and Kylo sympathetic. This is the Skywalker family we're talking about here. Sh** gets complicated.

After seeing the movie a second time, I really thoroughly enjoyed Luke's arc. It didn't feel as uneasy during the first half this time, knowing where it was all heading.

It's the first time we've seen a film where the master actually has a bigger arc than the apprentice. I found that immensely gratifying from the perspective of this being the 8th story in a 9 part saga. And Mark Hamill was absolutely wonderful in this film through and through. Best part of the movie for me, and it feels great to be able to say that because the character had a real journey in the film, not because he was just nostalgic window dressing who was left exactly as I remember him from 30 years ago. By the end, he was the ST Luke I'd always imagined as a kid, but it felt so much more earned and epic because of that journey.

 

[Galactus123]

Spoilers! I liked him in the movie but this was a really bad way to use Luke. You make a new Star Wars trilogy with the original cast and this is how you use Luke? He didn't even leave the island. It was a missed opportunity.

 

[Mjölnir]

Yes! Exactly this! Luke did not give in. As he says, it was a fleeting, shameful impulse that he had to tragically pay the price for.

It was basically the ol' "if you could go back in time and kill baby Hitler, would you"? moral conundrum. But in this case, Luke was confronting the fact that his nephew was certainly/inevitably going to tear down the victories that he'd fought so hard for. It's a complex situation, but I don't think it was pushed too far. If Kylo's version of events were the true one, then yeah...I'd agree. But of course we still trust Luke's version of the story, which to me is the tell that it wasn't taken too far. We believe him because he's still Luke Skywalker and he never turned to the dark side.

The sequel trilogy was always intended by George to deal in the grey, and I found the development in this film with Luke, Kylo and Rey really satisfied that.

Simply put, if Johnson had handled Luke's failure with kid gloves, the ending would not have felt as earned as it did. But even so, I still think it was handled in a nuanced, "from a certain point of view" kind of way that kept both Luke and Kylo sympathetic. This is the Skywalker family.

After seeing the movie a second time, I really thoroughly enjoyed Luke's arc. It didn't make it as uneasy this time, knowing where it was all heading.

It's the first time we've seen a film where the master actually has a bigger arc than the apprentice. I found that immensely gratifying from the perspective of this being the 8th story in a 9 part saga. And Mark Hamill was absolutely wonderful in this film through and through. Best part of the movie for me, and it feels great to be able to say that because the character had a real journey in the film, not because he was just nostalgic window dressing who was left exactly as I remember him from 30 years ago. By the end, he was the ST Luke I'd always imagined as a kid, but it felt so much more earned and epic because of that journey.

So not being able to kill your genocidal, dark lord of the Sith father even when enraged in battle equals having impulses to murder a potentially evil nephew in cold blood? I can't agree with that in the least.

Lucas was not intending anything like this, as been made clear by Mark Hamill early on having negative things to say about the direction (I know he changed his tune) and saying that they should have used Lucas ideas.

This wasn't really handling Luke's failure without kid gloves, this was just poor character development because it failed to maintain what was before. You could easily go more serious than this was and maintain more faithfulness to the character. Luke even had temptations of the dark side that you could use to set up a failure, but they very clearly didn't.

 

[Orba]

So not being able to kill your genocidal, dark lord of the Sith father even when enraged in battle equals having impulses to murder a potentially evil nephew in cold blood? I can't agree with that in the least.

It wasn't impulses, it was just one single moment of panic but unfortunately for Luke Ben saw it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I loved Luke's role. I I think we all want to romanticize Luke as if he is this perfect person, but the truth is he is not. He made plenty of mistakes in the original trilogy, and in this he makes a single mistake and undoes everything he ever worked for, but even in failure like Yoda teaches him in this movie he learns a lot about what needs to be done, what he needs to do. He redeems himself and passes the torch to.someone who hopefully will find a better way to save the galaxy than the Jedi did. This was a great redemption story, and I think it was beautifully told

 

[Batgort]

I guess I don't have a problem with Luke per se, just the writing and cuts around him. If he just yoda'd it, that's fine, but instead we get odd switches in behavior.

The cut where lesson 1 ended and he was afraid of it, and then it immediately voice overs to lesson 2. So he's really scared, but then let's continue. Doesn't add up.

Also he wears nice jedi robes on the island forever and then costume changes to grungy dark ones? He starts literally visually a badass, and then in 5 minutes turns into a hermit.

Would have loved to see more of Luke/Kylo flashbacks, instead we see nothing of the temple, the knights of ren, the luke in the rain with R2 moment, etc.

Agree with others that it was wasted.

 

[danoyse]

I loved Luke's role. I I think we all want to romanticize Luke as if he is this perfect person, but the truth is he is not. He made plenty of mistakes in the original trilogy, and in this he makes a single mistake and undoes everything he ever worked for, but even in failure like Yoda teaches him in this movie he learns a lot about what needs to be done, what he needs to do. He redeems himself and passes the torch to.someone who hopefully will find a better way to save the galaxy than the Jedi did. This was a great redemption story, and I think it was beautifully told

Agreed. I think the point of this whole story is that you don't have to hold on to the past to move forward, and that just because you screwed up, it doesn't need to mean you failed.

I never expected him to want to re-join the fight. If he did, he wouldn't have been missing for the whole last movie. And I'm glad he didn't just pull that x-wing out of the water and swoop in during the Crait battle. It's so predictable. I loved that we didn't know what he was going to do up until the very end.

And I loved his "see you around, kid." That was Han, and that was Luke telling Kylo Ren that he is NOT done with him about what he did to Han.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Seeing Luke on Crait gave me pure utter goosebumps. I left a satisfied man.

 

[BatLobster]

So not being able to kill your genocidal, dark lord of the Sith father even when enraged in battle equals having impulses to murder a potentially evil nephew in cold blood? I can't agree with that in the least.

I'd say it was more than "potentially". Luke saw that Kylo was like 99% chance on the path to turning. There's a philosophical debate to be had there about how much Luke may have accelerated that fall, but Luke saw it as a near certainty. It wasn't, "well gee he might turn, better kill him". I understand disagreeing with the choice to have that beat at all, but I feel like I'm seeing some exaggerating on what it actually was.

Lucas was not intending anything like this, as been made clear by Mark Hamill early on having negative things to say about the direction (I know he changed his tune) and saying that they should have used Lucas ideas.

I'm as big of a Lucas apologist as anyone, and I would've loved, and would still love to know what his ideas were. But the fact is they were abandoned with TFA. We knew Luke had failed Kylo going into this movie. We didn't know all the particulars of it, and of course one flashback is never going to give us all the nuance we'd get if Kylo had his own prequel trilogy equivalent detailing his fall. But for the purposes of this film, it worked for me and added dimension to both characters.

This wasn't really handling Luke's failure without kid gloves, this was just poor character development because it failed to maintain what was before. You could easily go more serious than this was and maintain more faithfulness to the character. Luke even had temptations of the dark side that you could use to set up a failure, but they very clearly didn't.

I completely disagree there. Being impulsive and quick to emotion has always been the Skywalker weakness. It's shown in Anakin, Luke and Kylo. (It's also why I still think Rey's parents could ultimately be revealed as Kenobi relatives, to me she archetypically-speaking feels like a Kenobi).

Luke's journey in the OT culminated with him in the end having the compassion to resist those darker impulses and not follow in his father's footsteps. However, going into this new trilogy I certainly never took that to mean that he would never feel any darker impulses again. I can allow Luke, 25 years after ROTJ, a brief moment of weakness given the horrendous dilemma he was facing. Hell, part of me wishes he DID strike Kylo down and Kylo never went on to kill Han, but obviously Luke would've never been able to live with himself if he had.

Anyway, I get that people are having strong, visceral reactions to some of the choices in this movie. I get it. For me, it's about the journey, and my experience with this film both times was that it felt like a very worthwhile and fulfilling journey by the end. It stuck the landing for me, HARD.

And I loved his "see you around, kid." That was Han, and that was Luke telling Kylo Ren that he is NOT done with him about what he did to Han.

Holy crap, I've seen it twice and didn't even pick up on that at all! Literally just got goosebumps reading that.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Yes, very much. A real highlight and MH brought the goods.

 

[DACrowe]

If I was in charge of the Sequel Trilogy, would I have made Luke a reclusive hermit who has given up on the world? No. But that is what The Force Awakens setup. With that said, I actually think The Last Jedi handled it very well. His pain felt quite real, as did his anger. And his redemption at the end is going down as one of the great Star Wars moments in movie history where he [blackout]stood up against the whole First Order with a laser sword, heh.[/blackout]

So given how we knew this story was roughly going to go, I enjoyed it for what it was. Him just leaving and joining the fight after a few conversations might've seemed unearned. Him showing up before Act Three would have been nice, but I see why it was constructed the way it was and I do think it works.

But I get folks don't like seeing their heroes fail, nor do fans very much like endings. This movie did both of those things to Luke Skywalker, and I feel like at least the first was inevitable and Luke would either have to leave in this one or the next.

 

[Consona]

https://youtu.be/i0biqMZrxJ0?t=3m40s

One word from the man himself.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

After Mark Hamill read the script, he went to Rian Johnson and told him that he disagreed with practically everything Luke says and does in this film. I thought this was a bit extreme when I saw him say that in an interview... but having seen it now, I'm forced to agree, unfortunately.

Elder Luke is a radical departure from a previously established character. I understand they want to move on from the past, but they are disregarding it and spitting on it (while blatantly copying other parts of it) in the process.

 

[Mjölnir]

I'd say it was more than "potentially". Luke saw that Kylo was like 99% chance on the path to turning. There's a philosophical debate to be had there about how much Luke may have accelerated that fall, but Luke saw it as a near certainty. It wasn't, "well gee he might turn, better kill him". I understand disagreeing with the choice to have that beat at all, but I feel like I'm seeing some exaggerating on what it actually was.

The movie clearly states that he hadn't fully turned and seeing Luke act was what finally made it. But it's fairly insignificant since even the comparison of a Ben having embraced the dark side is still nothing compared to a dark lord of the Sith that's already terrorized the entire galaxy, committed genocide, wiped out the Jedi order, etc.

Vader was also a father Luke had barely met. Ben was not just his sister's son that he'd probably met often, he was someone that he had helped raise. But still he gave Vader the complete benefit of the doubt, while Ben didn't.

I'm as big of a Lucas apologist as anyone, and I would've loved, and would still love to know what his ideas were. But the fact is they were abandoned with TFA. We knew Luke had failed Kylo going into this movie. We didn't know all the particulars of it, and of course one flashback is never going to give us all the nuance we'd get if Kylo had his own prequel trilogy equivalent detailing his fall. But for the purposes of this film, it worked for me and added dimension to both characters.

There's many ways Luke could have failed Ben while still being true to the core aspects of his character. The same goes for him being on Ahch-To. There's many reasons to put him there that can be true to the core of his character.

Given that I don't believe that TFA led to Luke's character being changed so fundamentally. It of course abandoned Lucas' ideas, but it's one thing to make your own story, and another to just disregard what the characters have been built up to be.

A similar change would be to make Leia a scoundrel that's just out for herself.

I completely disagree there. Being impulsive and quick to emotion has always been the Skywalker weakness. It's shown in Anakin, Luke and Kylo. (It's also why I still think Rey's parents could ultimately be revealed as Kenobi relatives, to me she archetypically-speaking feels like a Kenobi).

Luke's journey in the OT culminated with him in the end having the compassion to resist those darker impulses and not follow in his father's footsteps. However, going into this new trilogy I certainly never took that to mean that he would never feel any darker impulses again. I can allow Luke, 25 years after ROTJ, a brief moment of weakness given the horrendous dilemma he was facing. Hell, part of me wishes he DID strike Kylo down and Kylo never went on to kill Han, but obviously Luke would've never been able to live with himself if he had.

Anyway, I get that people are having strong, visceral reactions to some of the choices in this movie. I get it. For me, it's about the journey, and my experience with this film both times was that it felt like a very worthwhile and fulfilling journey by the end. It stuck the landing for me, HARD.

Luke has always been rash, but nowhere remotely close to being it in that way. Especially since it wasn't really a complete new revelation that Ben had a lot of darkness in him, Luke went there to check because he already suspected it. The dark Ben is child's play compared to Vader yet he just refrained from killing even when enraged due to his sister being threatened.

I think it's fanfiction level bad writing to not be able to explain core diversions better than that, which I'm saying as someone that wanted something new and was kind of expecting not seeing Luke fight again. It's just so very lazy.

 

[Consona]

After Mark Hamill read the script, he went to Rian Johnson and told him that he disagreed with practically everything Luke says and does in this film. I thought this was a bit extreme when I saw him say that in an interview... but having seen it now, I'm forced to agree, unfortunately.

Elder Luke is a radical departure from a previously established character. I understand they want to move on from the past, but they are disregarding it and spitting on it (while blatantly copying other parts of it) in the process.

Exactly.

 

[Mjölnir]

If I was in charge of the Sequel Trilogy, would I have made Luke a reclusive hermit who has given up on the world? No. But that is what The Force Awakens setup. With that said, I actually think The Last Jedi handled it very well. His pain felt quite real, as did his anger. And his redemption at the end is going down as one of the great Star Wars moments in movie history where he [blackout]stood up against the whole First Order with a laser sword, heh.[/blackout]

So given how we knew this story was roughly going to go, I enjoyed it for what it was. Him just leaving and joining the fight after a few conversations might've seemed unearned. Him showing up before Act Three would have been nice, but I see why it was constructed the way it was and I do think it works.

But I get folks don't like seeing their heroes fail, nor do fans very much like endings. This movie did both of those things to Luke Skywalker, and I feel like at least the first was inevitable and Luke would either have to leave in this one or the next.

It's actually not really what TFA sets up. Nothing in in that film actually said that he's turned his back on his friends and family, and the galaxy. They don't know where or why he's gone. There are tons of possible explanations of why Luke is on that planet, and many work very well within the core parameters that have been established for the character in previous movies.

And I'm perfectly fine with him failing. I just wanted him to fail while still retaining the core aspects of his character. There's a difference between character progression and making it another character.

 

[Consona]

“I at one point had to say to Rian, ‘I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character. Now, having said that, I have gotten it off my chest, and my job now is to take what you’ve created and do my best to realize your vision.'”

"fundamentally with every choice", you cannot get any farther than that

 

[C. Lee]

Obi-Wan Kenobi.....he was a beloved character, he was cool, he was noble.....and damn if they didn't kill him off just as he (the beacon of goodness) was going up against Darth Vader (the personification of evil).....they didn't show good triumphing over evil. They didn't show the last great Jedi leading the rebellion against the Empire. They just showed him giving his life to save what people he could. What a waste of a character's chances at being cool in future movies.


Luke Skywalker.....he was a beloved character, he was cool, he was noble.....and damn if they didn't kill him off just as he (the beacon of goodness) was going up against Kylo Ren (the personification of evil).....they didn't show good triumphing over evil. They didn't show the last great Jedi leading the rebellion against the First Order. They just showed him giving his life to save what people he could. What a waste of a character's chances at being cool in future movies.

 

[Mjölnir]

Obi-Wan wasn't a beloved character when ANH started, he was completely new and had no established character traits that were broken in the film. He also sprung into action the second someone said he was needed as he hadn't given up on the galaxy. With further information we also learned that he was safeguarding Luke, so he was always acting towards the hope for liberation of the galaxy. Quite a few differences there.

 

[BatSpider]

Obi-Wan Kenobi.....he was a beloved character, he was cool, he was noble.....and damn if they didn't kill him off just as he (the beacon of goodness) was going up against Darth Vader (the personification of evil).....they didn't show good triumphing over evil. They didn't show the last great Jedi leading the rebellion against the Empire. They just showed him giving his life to save what people he could. What a waste of a character's chances at being cool in future movies.


Luke Skywalker.....he was a beloved character, he was cool, he was noble.....and damn if they didn't kill him off just as he (the beacon of goodness) was going up against Kylo Ren (the personification of evil).....they didn't show good triumphing over evil. They didn't show the last great Jedi leading the rebellion against the First Order. They just showed him giving his life to save what people he could. What a waste of a character's chances at being cool in future movies.

You point leads into something ive been thinking about regarding TLJ and the OT:.....

Was the audience in LOVE and entralled when it was revealed Vader was Luke's father?!?

Sorrow, disgust, shock, confusion....some of the things we're seeing right now right?

Not everything has to be tied up in a bow served on a platter to appease the "fanbase" appetite. SW films make you feel a wide range of emotions, and not by doing what YOU want them to do...

Feel that is lost in todays day and age of "fandom"

 

[Mjölnir]

You point leads into something ive been thinking about regarding TLJ and the OT:.....

Was the audience in LOVE and entralled when it was revealed Vader was Luke's father?!?

Sorrow, disgust, shock, confusion....some of the things we're seeing right now right?

Not everything has to be tied up in a bow served on a platter to appease the "fanbase" appetite. SW films make you feel a wide range of emotions, and not by doing what YOU want them to do...

Feel that is lost in todays day and age of "fandom"

I of course can't speak for others but I remember thinking that it was really interesting the first time I saw it. I couldn't wait to see the next film after seeing ESB.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

I love Mark Hamill and he gave an excellent performance. He was the highlight of the movie. Unfortunately, Rian Johnson completely butchered his character. I now understand why Hamill wasn't pleased with the direction this movie took his character