The Rise of Skywalker Can "Star Wars" Redeem the Skywalker Legacy?

[LTuser]

And that's why she will always be called a mary sue.. "Cause you must love her or else!"

 

[marpckr]

In the legend novels, Luke did re-create the Jedi Order successfully. I don't know why JJ and Johnson diverted so far off these novels. Also Luke's character is so different in the novels. He's character is what you would expect.

They could have had Ben and Mara Skywalker and Jaina and Jacen Solo in the 7,8 and 9. They didn't have to be the main characters but by following the legends novels a bit more closely and keeping Luke's character as he is in the novels everyone would have been happier and Disney could have had spin off movies with the these characters.

Rey, Finn and Poe could still have had the roles they had with slight changes. Disney have ruined the trilogies and should have left them alone and had the last two movies as stand alone movies. I will be waiting for the reviews before I go and see 9.

 

[Marvolo]

Redeeming the family legacy wont erase the genocides and various heinous crimes of Vader and Kylo. And not redeeming the legacy wont lessen what Luke did in the Rebellion. So its not something that really matters.

Plus, the wider galaxy doesnt know who Kylo is. Just like the wider galaxy didnt know who Vader was. So Kylo is really a non factor in the Skywalker legacy as far as the average galactic citizen is concerned. When they hear the name of Skywalker they will think of the great Luke Skywalker and the mythic stories about him. They wont be thinking of Kylo or Ben Solo. They wont know about or think about Luke's mistakes with Ben, because they dont know about that stuff. So the Skywalker legacy is just fine.

 

[LTuser]

THe fact they DID take 20+ years of SW novels and kick them all to the kerb and make them no longer canon, YET ALLOWED the frikken cartoon be canon, is something disney ROYALLY IRKED ME off with..

 

[Marvolo]

THe fact they DID take 20+ years of SW novels and kick them all to the kerb and make them no longer canon, YET ALLOWED the frikken cartoon be canon, is something disney ROYALLY IRKED ME off with..

Because those 20+ years of novels were a convoluted unruly mess. It was the smart decision to just dump all that and let the storytellers start over. And the Clone Wars was made canon because the Clone Wars aligned with the films well and Lucas was directly involved in it. Rebels is canon because it began after Disney bought Lucasfilm. All shows produced after Disney bought Lucasfilm are canon.

 

[Mjölnir]

Redeeming the family legacy wont erase the genocides and various heinous crimes of Vader and Kylo. And not redeeming the legacy wont lessen what Luke did in the Rebellion. So its not something that really matters.

Plus, the wider galaxy doesnt know who Kylo is. Just like the wider galaxy didnt know who Vader was. So Kylo is really a non factor in the Skywalker legacy as far as the average galactic citizen is concerned. When they hear the name of Skywalker they will think of the great Luke Skywalker and the mythic stories about him. They wont be thinking of Kylo or Ben Solo. They wont know about or think about Luke's mistakes with Ben, because they dont know about that stuff. So the Skywalker legacy is just fine.

I've always seen it as when people talk about the Skywalker legacy they mean in the eyes of the viewers. Doing it in within the world makes no sense at all since almost no one knew that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker, for example.

I'd say that the legacy is about achieving something positive in the end. While Anakin did some horrible deeds at the orders of his master, he did end up eradicating the Sith forever (well, as far as we know). Luke was an integral part in that and in defeating the Galactic Empire. That far the legacy of the Skywalkers seems positive, since Sidious and the Empire would have been there even without Anakin.

When we now are given a story where the Empire wasn't destroyed but just had to go away to regroup for a while (which dramatically lessens the worth of the previous victory), and with Luke handing his nephew dishonorably and not even trying to defeat the newly risen dark lord that corrupted Ben, the Skywalker name is worth far less. Helping a handful of people to escape death is minor in the context.

 

[Grootster]

In the legend novels, Luke did re-create the Jedi Order successfully. I don't know why JJ and Johnson diverted so far off these novels. Also Luke's character is so different in the novels. He's character is what you would expect.

They could have had Ben and Mara Skywalker and Jaina and Jacen Solo in the 7,8 and 9. They didn't have to be the main characters but by following the legends novels a bit more closely and keeping Luke's character as he is in the novels everyone would have been happier and Disney could have had spin off movies with the these characters.

Rey, Finn and Poe could still have had the roles they had with slight changes. Disney have ruined the trilogies and should have left them alone and had the last two movies as stand alone movies. I will be waiting for the reviews before I go and see 9.

I've said it before, but at this point I wish they had just done a loose adaptation of the EU version. Obviously some changes would have had to be made, but it sounds like a far more interesting storyline than what we got.

 

[Frodo]

I was fine with Rey, Poe, and Finn. If anything, they probably should have started Episode 7 with a clean slate and not featured the characters from the OT.

They could have told a brand new story with those characters which would have given them alot more creative freedom to be free of the OT and PT baggage.

Instead, they ended up continuing a story which had been over for 30 years instead of just doing something new, which would have been much easier and probably would have been less divisive.

 

[Grootster]

I was fine with Rey, Poe, and Finn. If anything, they probably should have started Episode 7 with a clean slate and not featured the characters from the OT.

They could have told a brand new story with those characters which would have given them alot more creative freedom to be free of the OT and PT baggage.

Instead, they ended up continuing a story which had been over for 30 years instead of just doing something new, which would have been much easier and probably would have been less divisive.

You know, that might not have been a bad idea. Maybe the original cast could have just been cameos.

 

[vantheman77]

Since Star Wars Rebels recently introduced time travel, I believe Ezra used the portals to rescue Luke from Ahch-To hence why he disappeared. t:

 

[Herolee10]

Since Star Wars Rebels recently introduced time travel, I believe Ezra used the portals to rescue Luke from Ahch-To hence why he disappeared. t:

Haha, wouldn't that be nice.

Honestly though, with Kathleen Kennedy at the helm of this franchise, I don't ever expect to see the Skywalker Legacy respected or redeemed ever again. The woman is just adamant in using the legacy of the original Star Wars saga in order to build off her new vision for the franchise in the way that she see fits.

It would have been better to keep the franchise at 6 episodes, rather than starting a new one like this.

 

[random_havoc]

Even though all three films are made by the same filmmaker and writers ...

You're mistaken. Not the same writers or directors in this new trilogy, as is very clear from TLJ stomping all over the story threads Abrams left at the end of TFA

 

[random_havoc]

I've said it before, but at this point I wish they had just done a loose adaptation of the EU version. Obviously some changes would have had to be made, but it sounds like a far more interesting storyline than what we got.

Absolutely. The EU honoured the OT, these new prequels piss on the OT characters.

 

[Frodo]

You're mistaken. Not the same writers or directors in this new trilogy, as is very clear from TLJ stomping all over the story threads Abrams left at the end of TFA

No, you've mistaken the context in which I made the statement. I was making the making an imperfect comparison with how episode 7 and 9 could be connected in the same way Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises are connected on a thematic level.

I was arguing that if anything , Episode 9 may more of a sequel and may be more thematically tied to TFA not TLJ, and further that it may take up story threads from TLJ that were "stomped all over" as you argue.

In mentioning writers and directors I was referring to Chris Nolan, who directed all three films David Goyer, and Johnathan Nolan who did write all three films in TDK trilogy.

You're correct that they aren't the same writers in this trilogy , but I wasn't arguing that they were to begin with.

 

[writer0327]

You're mistaken. Not the same writers or directors in this new trilogy, as is very clear from TLJ stomping all over the story threads Abrams left at the end of TFA

Abrams left a lot of underdeveloped material, characters, storylines, etc. to work with. You can tell KK, Lucasfilm, etc. didn't plan this next trilogy out with anything in mind. They were swinging from the hip and left it to the creative minds of their directors to carve a new direction for the franchise.

It would have been cleaner if they had devised a real 3-parter, but I think if the saga was to have any teeth in this day and age, they had to go the direction of the Last Jedi.

 

[Frodo]

Well,we know now that JJ did have an outline for episode 8 and 9 but Johnson threw it out and did his own thing.

If these new trilogies going forward are gonna be sort of freewheeling things ,in which each film is gonna do its own thing without an set outline for the trilogy of how to get from point A to point B, and what to do with certain storylines, we'll see how effective that is in the long run.

It may be that Kennedy and Lucasfilm want more director driven films like TLJ as opposed to installments in a trilogy which are restricted by a set outline planned ahead of time.

Or they could still be trying to figure out what they want these new films to be and to achieve from a creative pov in the SW franchise.

 

[random_havoc]

It would have been cleaner if they had devised a real 3-parter, but I think if the saga was to have any teeth in this day and age, they had to go the direction of the Last Jedi.

No, there are many directions they could have gone that are vastly better than TLJ

 

[random_havoc]

And another thing, what the hell is with this idea it's done great idea to give directors free rein? What happened to giving the director the script and having him be just a director. Good director doesn't automatically mean they should be writing the scripts too but I keep reading about that like it's the big thing for studios to aspire to now

 

[LTuser]

Absolutely. The EU honoured the OT, these new prequels piss on the OT characters.

I agree. I really hated that when Disney got the film series, the first thing they did was TOTALLY and utterly trash/ignore all the EU stuff.. Especially as i feel if it wasn't FOR THE EU novels, the fanbase for SW might not have even gotten us to HAVE the prequels, let alone any sequels..

 

[Frodo]

And another thing, what the hell is with this idea it's done great idea to give directors free rein? What happened to giving the director the script and having him be just a director. Good director doesn't automatically mean they should be writing the scripts too but I keep reading about that like it's the big thing for studios to aspire to now

At this point, i'm not really sure what the goal of Lucasfilm is from a creative pov with these films. With Feige and Marvel, they had their game plan together from the jump and while they've shifted and adjusted things , there's a trajectory and a logic to how the films all connect in the same universe.

With these new films ,they're sort of jumping around in time with the spin off like Rogue one and Solo, while the saga films have seem to have been writer director, pass the pipe type projects, in which, each new director can take or leave what the last guy/woman has done ,and do their own thing.

With Bond and Star Trek you can have each director put their own stamp on the myths because most episodes are their own adventure and not always dependent on what happened before.

SW is a different animal from the MCU, ST, and Bond and has been much closer knit on film at least. Its alot more jarring to make a u turn with a trilogy film than it is if you're just doing stand alone films.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Abrams left a lot of underdeveloped material, characters, storylines, etc. to work with. You can tell KK, Lucasfilm, etc. didn't plan this next trilogy out with anything in mind. They were swinging from the hip and left it to the creative minds of their directors to carve a new direction for the franchise.

Yep, Abrams left a lot open to interpretation by the end of TFA. Luke didn’t HAVE to be a hermit like some claim, as Han said he could have been looking for the first Jedi temple, undertaken some new training which took longer than expected, or any number of things.

But no, Johnson made it so he turned his back on his family, friends and the galaxy as he was in a sulk.

I have said it before but if he survived TLJ, I would have had much less of a problem with his arc.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

So needless to say, not everyone was thrilled with what became of Luke Skywalker at the conclusion of "The Last Jedi".

While I'm sure there folks out there who could come up with several reasons on why they thought that it was the best creative decision to take or vice versa, one big problem remains: The Skywalker Legacy.

Although Princess Leia survived the last film's ordeal, with the untimely passing of Carrie Fisher it's doubtful that her character will return for final conclusion of this trilogy.

And many seem convinced that Kylo Ren will not go down the same path as Anakin and find redemption at the end of the trilogy. So if that's the case, where does this leave the Skywalker legacy?

Anakin Skywalker left a huge scar on the Star Wars galaxy during his tenure as Darth Vader. Although Luke was able to both redeem his father and aided in the defeat of the Emperor, his life ultimately ended in ruins as his actions (indirectly) factored into Kylo Ren's descent to the Dark Side. Not to mention, Luke was never able to restore the Jedi Order back to its former glory.

And if Rey kills Kylo, or he dies from some other factor (redeemed or not), then the last impact that the Skywalker family will have had and left in the Star Wars galaxy is a tragic one filled with pain and suffering.

Honestly guys, I don't know about anyone else, but it's just depressing to think that the main lineage of the Star Wars Franchise will potentially conclude on this note.

Is there really no other way for the franchise to save it?

Big toss up is Kylo. He could turn back to the light, and also live.

I've also seen a lot of people "ship" him with Rey, so the Skywalker lineage would continue, even if their last names where Solo instead.

Also we don't know if Luke had any relationships between ROTJ and TFA, so new Skywalker's descendant from Luke could be introduced . I know some people floated the idea that Rey was a secret child of Luke or granddaughter of Obi Wan that they wanted no one to know about, or that who's existence was hidden from them.

 

[NHawk19]

For me the "Episode" movies were always about the Skywalker Family. Seems like Disney/Lucas missed that point and now after TLJ they're kind of screwed following Carries untimely passing. (R.I.P. )

They could always explore other areas of the galaxy like a Knights of the Old Republic or something that looks at the establishment of the Jedi & Sith, the balance prophecy, etc. If they learned anything from Rogue One it may be that they're better off exploring other things rather than furthering the "Episodes". The fans seem to want a richness and history that these new films don't want to adhere to.

By all accounts Marvel started Iron-man relatively hap hazard, but once they decided to build toward Avengers and the extended universe they got their stuff together. It appears like they communicated certain tie-in points even if some might have been better off not being included *cough*Thor'sBathAoU*cough*. Lucas needs to decide where they want to go. Are they building towards the end of the war? Are they building towards a new generation? If they can't figure that out then they should've stopped with ROTJ and just set stuff in the universe that adheres to the rules the original trilogy established.

 

[Frodo]

For me the "Episode" movies were always about the Skywalker Family. Seems like Disney/Lucas missed that point and now after TLJ they're kind of screwed following Carries untimely passing. (R.I.P. )

They could always explore other areas of the galaxy like a Knights of the Old Republic or something that looks at the establishment of the Jedi & Sith, the balance prophecy, etc. If they learned anything from Rogue One it may be that they're better off exploring other things rather than furthering the "Episodes". The fans seem to want a richness and history that these new films don't want to adhere to.

By all accounts Marvel started Iron-man relatively hap hazard, but once they decided to build toward Avengers and the extended universe they got their stuff together. It appears like they communicated certain tie-in points even if some might have been better off not being included *cough*Thor'sBathAoU*cough*. Lucas needs to decide where they want to go. Are they building towards the end of the war? Are they building towards a new generation? If they can't figure that out then they should've stopped with ROTJ and just set stuff in the universe that adheres to the rules the original trilogy established.

This has basically been my position for a while now. They basically need to decide what they want SW to be going forward.

It can't be a writer/director driven thing in which each person puts their own spin on the myths, while at the same to trying to have a unified , cohesive , continuity driven , interconnected, CU.

 

[NHawk19]

^ and now the only family member remaining is Ben Solo who is an unlikable whiner.

They'd be better off focusing on different battles, or the rise of the New Order, instead of ending the Jedi and extending the Battle between Rey and Ben.

The only way out for them at this point is either Luke had kids and hid them or Ben has a brother or sister we conveniently haven't met yet.