The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[C. Lee]

you guys are all missing the point. luke can be flawed. but there is a difference between being flawed, and being an apathetic coward. the fleeting thought of killing kylo is LESS the problem than the aftermath: that luke abandons his nephew, his sister, his pal han, and the ENTIRE universe. he lets his nephew get corrupted by a mysterious and dangerous power in snoke, and sits idly by as the first order gains prominence.

a momentary lapse in judgment can be explained away -- but luke being a coward and giving up on everyone and everything is a betrayal of the character. johnson clearly wanted to gloss this over as much as possible because it would take a lot of brain power to answer the question: if luke wasn't a coward and isn't dead, how could snoke, kylo, and the first order come to power? a proper answer would have taken writers that cared a lot more about the fidelity of the original characters than apparently johnson and co.

I don't call him a coward....I call him a man with PTSD.

 

[InCali]

So, my takeaway on all of this is that even though the themes remain similar (which is fine), I think the underlying truth behind the situations is very likely to be different. Vader telling Luke that he is his father proved to be true, but only in a context later described to Luke by Yoda. Kylo's description of the "truth" to Rey didn't ring as true as Vader's statement to me. I think there may well be some level of truth to Kylo's statement to her, but there's something else going on. The struggle between her and Kylo doesn't happen unless she's something special. In these movies, it means there's something about her beyond Kylo's statement.

I know that's sort of convoluted, but I'm trying to avoid spoiler tags.

 

[danoyse]

So, my takeaway on all of this is that even though the themes remain similar (which is fine), I think the underlying truth behind the situations is very likely to be different. Vader telling Luke that he is his father proved to be true, but only in a context later described to Luke by Yoda. Kylo's description of the "truth" to Rey didn't ring as true as Vader's statement to me. I think there may well be some level of truth to Kylo's statement to her, but there's something else going on. The struggle between her and Kylo doesn't happen unless she's something special. In these movies, it means there's something about her beyond Kylo's statement.

I know that's sort of convoluted, but I'm trying to avoid spoiler tags.

I thought it was fascinating that Rey was the one who admitted who they were. She's known all along. But she was a little girl when they left her, and she grew up trying to convince herself there was more because it was probably easier than dealing with knowing you were unloved and unwanted. It makes her scenes on Jakku, with her watching the ships come and go and scratching the days off on the wall even sadder when you know the truth.

Maz told her, the belonging she sought wasn't behind her, it was ahead of her. I think Kylo saw the truth, but she was the one who needed to let go of it.

I don't think there's anything more to her parents. At this point, I don't want there to be. Let her be her own person.

 

[Batgort]

Luke being cut off from the force could have been done right, like in KOTOR 2 with a wound in the force.

Instead the "seen the power before", "came here to die", and "cut off from the force"-vs-"walking in on the phone call touch" all felt like patchwork.

They took a neat concept and didn't do anything with it!

 

[Lantern Venom]

This was the most complex that we've ever seen Luke. He was conflicted in ROTJ, but nothing like what we saw in TLJ. He reminded me of many real world retirees who finish their careers and aren't sure if the reward they got or the difference that they made was worth the sacrifices along the way. Even in a fantasy movie like this, there was something very genuine in his outlook.

 

[InCali]

I thought it was fascinating that Rey was the one who admitted who they were. She's known all along. But she was a little girl when they left her, and she grew up trying to convince herself there was more because it was probably easier than dealing with knowing you were unloved and unwanted. It makes her scenes on Jakku, with her watching the ships come and go and scratching the days off on the wall even sadder when you know the truth.

Maz told her, the belonging she sought wasn't behind her, it was ahead of her. I think Kylo saw the truth, but she was the one who needed to let go of it.

I don't think there's anything more to her parents. At this point, I don't want there to be. Let her be her own person.

I can think of all kinds of ways to explain why she, untrained, is so powerful and not all of them have to do with the SW parentage we're aware of. In TPM, we had Anakin's parentage explained. I think there's going to be some explanation of Rey's powers and think I would use it to set the stage for further episodes.

I sort of feel like leaving as is would leave a bit of an unexplained hole in the story. It doesn't have to be the typical explanation, but I'd like to hear something.

 

[Steamteck]

A I'm glad he didn't just pull that x-wing out of the water and swoop in during the Crait battle. It's so predictable.

Sometimes things are predictable because they're a really good option and sometimes things are unpredictable because they are a really poor option.
Pushing 60, more and more that seems why things are sometimes unpredictable to me. Sometimes I can't believe moviemakers would be so stupid.

 

[The Riddler]

A flawed Luke Skywalker is far more fascinating than some super-powered Jedi version who would show up with all of the answers. Who learns anything from that?

It was a little like Han in TFA. He still had a bit of his swagger, but you could see how broken-hearted he was over losing Ben.

being "flawed" does justify betraying the characterization established in the first three films and turning one of the most beloved heroes in cinema into a pathetic coward, but to each his own.

 

[Lantern Venom]

being "flawed" does justify betraying the characterization established in the first three films and turning one of the most beloved heroes in cinema into a pathetic coward, but to each his own.

He wasn't a coward at all, but a former idealist who had lost his taste for the endless cycle of war and betrayal.

 

[The Riddler]

I don't call him a coward....I call him a man with PTSD.

PTSD from what exactly? i get he was disillusioned with teaching the jedi methods, but i don't see how it's anything but out of character (or lazy, convenient writing) for luke to literally leave kylo to snoke (and arguably the universe for that matter). there's literally no inkling of hero in him...no consideration to confront snoke or to win back kylo. if anything, luke should have wanted to destroy snoke and end the jedi...effectively bringing balance to the universe by destroying the dark side and never again perpetuating the jedi ways. for him to be a hermit and ending the jedi...while letting snoke and kylo run rampant is the worst case scenario: a critical imbalance towards the dark side.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So Luke is a pathetic coward.

Did you guys see the last 20 minutes of the movie?

It's called a character arc and it works, especially towards the end.

Playing safe would've ultimately been a waste. TFA played is pretty safe and most people left it behind pretty quick.

Luke got his moment and it was made better by his conflicts and baggage from earlier in the film.

Imagine the same scene if Luke was noble and selfless the whole movie. Much less impact and importance to the saga.

 

[C. Lee]

PTSD from what exactly?

Oh, let's see.....

He was a soldier that blew up a space station killing thousands of people.

He discovered his father was a mass murderer who was the right hand man of the most evil tyrant in the galaxy....and dad cut his hand off.

He discovered he had fantastic powers that could make him godlike and was in a constant struggle to not be seduced by the dark side of that power.

He took it on himself to recruit and train others with this power in an attempt to restart a religion that had been destroyed by the systemetic murder of all who practiced it.

Through his powers he psychically discovered his nephew was being drawn to the dark side of this power, and in a moment of weakness contemplated murdering the nephew instead of talking to him....and the nephew saw him in that split second of temptation and attacked him back leaving him for dead, and then killing most of the other students and taking the survivors away with him as he joined the new evil menace of the galaxy.

Other that that, I don't know what could have stressed him out.

 

[Clark-Kent]

Oh, let's see.....

He was a soldier that blew up a space station killing thousands of people.

He discovered his father was a mass murderer who was the right hand man of the most evil tyrant in the galaxy....and dad cut his hand off.

He discovered he had fantastic powers that could make him godlike and was in a constant struggle to not be seduced by the dark side of that power.

He took it on himself to recruit and train others with this power in an attempt to restart a religion that had been destroyed by the systemetic murder of all who practiced it.

Through his powers he psychically discovered his nephew was being drawn to the dark side of this power, and in a moment of weakness contemplated murdering the nephew instead of talking to him....and the nephew saw him in that split second of temptation and attacked him back leaving him for dead, and then killing most of the other students and taking the survivors away with him as he joined the new evil menace of the galaxy.

Other that that, I don't know what could have stressed him out.

 

[Aximili86]

C. Lee with some much-needed sanity.

I mean, genuinely feeling that your nephew's about to go bat****, join up with marauding space-Nazis and run a reign of terror on the galaxy, and you were the one who enabled him to that through training, and in a moment of (horrible but probably justified) panic you feel you have no choice but to kill him in his sleep.

Yeaaahhh. That in itself is going to break a person. Let alone all the rest.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Self awareness is a two edged sword. [BLACKOUT]Luke's sense of himself was damaged in that moment of weakness and then Ben's actions only compounded that. Luke lost faith in himself, his character, his morals and his judgement.
He was weighed down by guilt and doubt. The same self awareness that allowed him to stop himself from giving into the dark side in the throne room on the second Death Star in this case fed into his self loathing. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[spider-neil]

Oh, let's see.....

Other that that, I don't know what could have stressed him out.

t:

 

[Leenie]

Luke's characterization in this movie reminds me of the Indiana Jones South Park episode. Just's saying.

Spoiler

Luke makes no heroic sacrifice whatsoever at the end of the movie. He wasn't there. He didn't really face Kylo and the First Order. Luke just literally phoned it in, after being a pathetic *****ebag throughout the entire film (with a seriously unsatisfying explanation, if you ask me).

You know all of the cool stuff that happened when the AT-ATs shot him down and he just walked out of those blasts like it was nothing? That coolness and the "wow" factor of that scene are immediately deflated when it's revealed that Luke isn't physically there. Yay? And for those saying that Luke surviving those blasts wouldn't be realistic: Leia. In. Space. I don't need to say any more.

And after phoning it in, Luke dies being "at peace" with himself. Glad he's satisfied over doing the bare minimum. What a satisfying "character arc" ...

The movie literally had Luke's X-Wing in the film; perfect setup for him to come in and become a hero again. What a joke.

Needless to say, I'm mortified by how Luke was handled in this movie.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[Leenie]

 

[Herolee10]

Well to be honest, I was actually expecting to see a lot more people be upset with how Luke was used in this film, namely because of how many people I remembered posting (after TFA came out) that they couldn't wait to see the type of action sequences they would have Luke involved in for the sequel, let alone on how far his lightsaber skills have progressed since ROTJ.

Plus, I don't think anyone was expecting for him to die in this episode. The last film of this trilogy sure but in the middle of it? And to have died in a way where he never corrected his mistakes.

As a self contained/elsewhere story, I can appreciate this take. But in the grand scheme of things and to the overall legacy of the Skywalker mythology, I feel like this film will ultimately be far more detrimental to it than beneficial.

Plus to feed Luke to the guy that already took Han Solo from us is so messed up.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Well to be honest, I was actually expecting to see a lot more people be upset with how Luke was used in this film, namely because of how many people I remembered posting (after TFA came out) that they couldn't wait to see the type of action sequences they would have Luke involved in for the sequel, let alone on how far his lightsaber skills have progressed since ROTJ.

Plus, I don't think anyone was expecting for him to die in this episode. The last film of this trilogy sure but in the middle of it? And to have died in a way where he never corrected his mistakes.

As a self contained/elsewhere story, I can appreciate this take. But in the grand scheme of things and to the overall legacy of the Skywalker mythology, I feel like this film will ultimately be far more detrimental to it than beneficial.

Plus to feed Luke to the guy that already took Han Solo from us is so messed up.

 

[FunkMiller]

So Luke is a pathetic coward.

Did you guys see the last 20 minutes of the movie?

It's called a character arc and it works, especially towards the end.

Playing safe would've ultimately been a waste. TFA played is pretty safe and most people left it behind pretty quick.

Luke got his moment and it was made better by his conflicts and baggage from earlier in the film.

Imagine the same scene if Luke was noble and selfless the whole movie. Much less impact and importance to the saga.

It baffles me why people just want Luke to be the same Luke he was in the original trilogy. What the hell’s point in that? Where’s the drama, or the tension in an all powerful Obi Wan Lukobi?

That ending was brilliant. It absolutely gave Luke the hero’s end he deserved. He took all of that guilt, anger and shame, and turned it around to save the only people left in the galaxy that he loved. He performed an act of such power with the force, it’ll never be matched by anyone again.

What difference does it make if he dies in this movie or the third? As long as his death serves the story, and carries a lot of weight and dramatic impact, it works.

I get the impression a lot of people think this trilogy is about the characters from the original trilogy. It’s not. They are supporting characters. They don’t have many of the big hero moments here, because they had them all in the last three movies. And Luke still gets the biggest hero moment of this film anyway, and yet some folks aren’t happy because he didn’t twiddle a lightsaber round?

I had no interest in more Star Wars films with Luke Skywalker as the hero. I had those. They were amazing. Now I want something different. I want Rey to be the hero of this story. I want Luke to be a supporting character that helps to enable her hero’s journey. And that’s exactly what I got.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It baffles me why people just want Luke to be the same Luke he was in the original trilogy. What the hell’s point in that? Where’s the drama, or the tension in an all powerful Obi Wan Lukobi?

That ending was brilliant. It absolutely gave Luke the hero’s end he deserved. He took all of that guilt, anger and shame, and turned it around to save the only people left in the galaxy that he loved. He performed an act of such power with the force, it’ll never be matched by anyone again.

What difference does it make if he dies in this movie or the third? As long as his death serves the story, and carries a lot of weight and dramatic impact, it works.

I get the impression a lot of people think this trilogy is about the characters from the original trilogy. It’s not. They are supporting characters. They don’t have many of the big hero moments here, because they had them all in the last three movies. And Luke still gets the biggest hero moment of this film, and yet some folks aren’t happy because he didn’t twiddle a lightsaber round?

Thank you!!!! Everyone is looking through these characters with rose colored glasses, ignoring the faults they had in the OT and rejecting where Luke went in this case, ignoring where he is by film's end. Where Luke ends this story is just wonderful and everything I could have asked them to do with him.

 

[Aximili86]

Luke makes no heroic sacrifice whatsoever at the end of the movie

He died to give the Resistance crew a chance to escape (a mere chance to escape, not even to prevail in battle, win the day, but just get out of there with their lives).

He friggin' spiritual-projection-kamikazed himself to save other people! What are you even talking about? t:

C'mon now.

 

[Mjölnir]

I love the way you're exploring this light-side/dark-side ratio as though it were actually quantifiable.

Plenty of official games have quantified it so yes, apparently it is.

But I'd be interested to hear you explain in what way it needs to be quantifiable in order to make it a truth that no other dark sider has had even remotely as much consistent pull towards the light as Kylo Ren. It's quite obvious in the scenes he has, and it's also quite obvious that they thought that would be a fresh and unique take on it.