The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[moviedoors]

Plenty of official games have quantified it so yes, apparently it is.

Games? Those carry no weight in my dojo.

The characters in the movie don’t have little meters next to their heads.

As it stands, Vader has more a pull towards the light, because he accepted it, something Kylo Ren hasn’t done so far.

 

[Mjölnir]

Games? Those carry no weight in my dojo.

The characters in the movie don’t have little meters next to their heads.

If they carry no weight then why did you only reply to that part of my post and not my question to you that was the actual response to what you said?

 

[Steyin]

I enjoyed his role/arc, but I felt Mark was being more Mark than Luke mannerism/character wise.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Plenty of official games have quantified it so yes, apparently it is.

But I'd be interested to hear you explain in what way it needs to be quantifiable in order to make it a truth that no other dark sider has had even remotely as much consistent pull towards the light as Kylo Ren. It's quite obvious in the scenes he has, and it's also quite obvious that they thought that would be a fresh and unique take on it.

Again, I think you're mistaking dialogue vs action. But, I think we already touched on this topic so I am not going to rehash all that. But I agree with the other guy, video games hold no merit when it comes to the movies.

 

[wampa1]

Yes. The complaint with TFA was that Han seemingly hadn't moved on in 30 years and was still a cocky smuggler. They could have made Luke a mass murdering Sith for all I care as there's been 30 YEARS of unseen development. When I have issues with movies they're from a technical or structural point of view. As long as characters are consistent within the confines of the standalone piece of drama that I'm watching I'm cool with that. It's why I don't *really* get too bent out of shape over Batman and Supes in BvS and genuinely don't mind the 'Martha' bit.

 

[Mjölnir]

Again, I think you're mistaking dialogue vs action. But, I think we already touched on this topic so I am not going to rehash all that. But I agree with the other guy, video games hold no merit when it comes to the movies.

Neither of you seem to have gotten that it was a joke because his statement about being quantifiable has no relevance to anything I have said. So there's the explanation for it.

 

[wampa1]

Yerp. It's like the film makers are scared to do things we all want to see because it's too obvious. Like Luke using his green lightsaber in a cool action scene. When Luke was like, "What, you expect me to use a laser sword to take on the whole first order?" I was like, "YES! DO IT!" But no. Of course not Rian. That would be too obvious.....and too awesome.
Instead, let's make him just chill on a rock using a forceogram and die from that..... :/

Obi-Wan in ANH was around Luke's age in TLJ. Were you disappointed that Obi-Wan didn't single-handedly take down the Empire and that he instead took on the guy with a red lightsaber to buy time for the heroes escape and then just decided to die because... of reasons...?

 

[Batgort]

Obi-Wan in ANH was around Luke's age in TLJ. Were you disappointed that Obi-Wan didn't single-handedly take down the Empire and that he instead took on the guy with a red lightsaber to buy time for the heroes escape and then just decided to die because... of reasons...?

Obi-wan was on the losing side in the prequels - literally defeated with all his friends killed.

Luke was on the winning side, who did charge in.

That's why this is weird, we get a 10 second flashback to a big off-screen era where he went from winner to loser, and so we have to then buy him as an obi-wan hermit.

Show me the full Luke and Kylo story, since when does Star Wars do flashbacks and give us just the spectacle? It made that moment feel cheap, we have no other basis for their relationship.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Obi-wan was on the losing side in the prequels - literally defeated with all his friends killed.

Luke was on the winning side, who did charge in.

That's why this is weird, we get a 10 second flashback to a big off-screen era where he went from winner to loser, and so we have to then buy him as an obi-wan hermit.

Show me the full Luke and Kylo story, since when does Star Wars do flashbacks and give us just the spectacle? It made that moment feel cheap, we have no other basis for their relationship.

You do know that before there was a PT, all we ever had in regards to Obi-Won and Vader's relationship was dialogue. Not even flashbacks, right? But even when we had just the OT, we accepted it.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Obi-wan was on the losing side in the prequels - literally defeated with all his friends killed.

Luke was on the winning side, who did charge in.

That's why this is weird, we get a 10 second flashback to a big off-screen era where he went from winner to loser, and so we have to then buy him as an obi-wan hermit.

Show me the full Luke and Kylo story, since when does Star Wars do flashbacks and give us just the spectacle? It made that moment feel cheap, we have no other basis for their relationship.

Yeah I would have much preferred some flashbacks to Luke training Kylo and the students, and seeing how it all went to pot in greater detail rather than the Canto Bight crap we got. It would have also lent greater focus to the overall narrative of the movie I think. As it is, the film feels messy.

 

[wampa1]

What else would you need to see? All the necessary back story is revealed. Arguably, the only outstanding thread would be the Knights of Ren and where they went. I perhaps would have expected a line in TLJ that suggests that Snoke's guards were the KoR.

 

[Mjölnir]

I don't think Luke should be able to take down the entire New Order. That's way beyond the powers of a Jedi, even if Luke would have had most of Anakin's potential and had managed to fulfill it (and it seems like at least the latter is false).

Obi-Wan did take up the fight when he was told he was needed though. He never turned his back on his friends and allies (what few of them were left), he went away because he was entrusted with an important task. Obi-Wan was a bigger hero than Luke in their respective ends.

 

[wampa1]

Not necessary at the end, but I agree that Obi-Wan *across the whole saga* fares better than Luke but Obi-Wan had full Jedi training from an early age. Luke was always going to be a bit hit or miss based on his lineage and age. TLJ got a bit meta when it came to Luke which I thought was kinda bold but equally you could argue that Star Wars should be not so self-referential.

 

[Mjölnir]

If we're not looking at the end but the peaks I think Luke's heroism in RotJ can stand up to anything. It's not about power (that's skewed by the various films having different technology and other development) but just being a hero.

 

[markjoedelonge]

What else would you need to see? All the necessary back story is revealed. Arguably, the only outstanding thread would be the Knights of Ren and where they went. I perhaps would have expected a line in TLJ that suggests that Snoke's guards were the KoR.

I would have liked Luke and Kylo's relationship to have been fleshed out more. It would have made the ending much more meaningful and would have helped us understand why Luke chose to exile himself. To see the good aspects of their relationship. Because as it is, all we see is the aftermath, and there's not enough emotional connection to it as I would have liked.

 

[wampa1]

I would have liked Luke and Kylo's relationship to have been fleshed out more. It would have made the ending much more meaningful and would have helped us understand why Luke chose to exile himself. To see the good aspects of their relationship. Because as it is, all we see is the aftermath, and there's not enough emotional connection to it as I would have liked.

Again though, what do we see of Vader's connection to Obi-Wan? That's entirely dialogue with no flashbacks at all. Arguably, the TLJ gives us a *more* fleshed out fallen student / teacher relationship than ANH.

And I'm not saying I would not have liked to see more Luke / Kylo but from a narrative perspective, everything that is needed to get you from A to B is there.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Again though, what do we see of Vader's connection to Obi-Wan? That's entirely dialogue with no flashbacks at all. Arguably, the TLJ gives us a *more* fleshed out fallen student / teacher relationship than ANH.

And I'm not saying I would not have liked to see more Luke / Kylo but from a narrative perspective, everything that is needed to get you from A to B is there.

People only think they did more with Anakin and Obi Won because we got prequels. But within the OT, it was just vague dialogue.

 

[Mjölnir]

People only think they did more with Anakin and Obi Won because we got prequels. But within the OT, it was just vague dialogue.

Having gotten more information many people like what's in ANH more. Just like many like Vader more in ANH after they saw him become a more fleshed out character in ESB.

With people now having been "spoiled" with that some want the new characters to be fleshed out like that as well. For example, the character Obi-Wan that the fans remember these days is the one that's been explained over four films (plus a little force ghosting). And it's perfectly possible to introduce new characters with more meat on them than Obi-Wan, Palpatine, etc had when we first saw them. Films do it all the time.

It's not what I've been asking for, or what I think has been the big weaknesses for me, but I understand their line of thinking.

 

[Limonade]

Yeah I would have much preferred some flashbacks to Luke training Kylo and the students, and seeing how it all went to pot in greater detail rather than the Canto Bight crap we got. It would have also lent greater focus to the overall narrative of the movie I think. As it is, the film feels messy.

I feel the same way.

Kylo is just... ughh... he's complex, yes. But a Son from Resistance fighter parents and the nephew of a Legendary Jedi.

Yet, the reason he turned was because of a fight or flight mode moment.

No understanding how Kylo even began to understand the Dark side. I'm just running on an assumption. I need more than just a reference otherwise it just feels hollow to me.

Sort of like in BvS, when throughout the movie people were saying that Batfleck was a different kind of mean... a different kind of mean from what exactly? That kinda of stuff can't be simply referenced... it needs to be shown. How was he before?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Not necessary at the end, but I agree that Obi-Wan *across the whole saga* fares better than Luke but Obi-Wan had full Jedi training from an early age. Luke was always going to be a bit hit or miss based on his lineage and age. TLJ got a bit meta when it came to Luke which I thought was kinda bold but equally you could argue that Star Wars should be not so self-referential.

Obi Wan witnessed a jedi turn evil and destroy everything once.

Luke witnessed it twice in a way (Vader and Kylo).

So Luke had way more reason to be cynical.

It's like if Bernie Sanders turned into a corporate stooge who destroyed all social programs after he was elected and then the next socialist who became president did the same thing. At some point even the most loyal Bernie Bro is going to get burned out and stop fighting for a socialist president.

 

[Aximili86]

Nah, he just embezzles money from universities he and his wife run. No room for cynicism here, move along, move along.

Heh. But yeah, that Luke Skywalker guy...

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Or a less partisan example, if West Point had a secret school that trained the best CIA/Special Forces/patriots but the star students kept turning and becoming powerful leaders for the Soviet Union or ISIS. The school eventually would be dissembled.

 

[moviedoors]

If they carry no weight then why did you only reply to that part of my post and not my question to you that was the actual response to what you said?

Because I’m in my phone and I’ll get to it later.

 

[InCali]

Oh, let's see.....

He was a soldier that blew up a space station killing thousands of people.

He discovered his father was a mass murderer who was the right hand man of the most evil tyrant in the galaxy....and dad cut his hand off.

He discovered he had fantastic powers that could make him godlike and was in a constant struggle to not be seduced by the dark side of that power.

He took it on himself to recruit and train others with this power in an attempt to restart a religion that had been destroyed by the systemetic murder of all who practiced it.

Through his powers he psychically discovered his nephew was being drawn to the dark side of this power, and in a moment of weakness contemplated murdering the nephew instead of talking to him....and the nephew saw him in that split second of temptation and attacked him back leaving him for dead, and then killing most of the other students and taking the survivors away with him as he joined the new evil menace of the galaxy.

Other that that, I don't know what could have stressed him out.

Being kissed by his sister and having the hots for her?

That family. I'll tell ya....they should have been on GoT.

 

[InCali]

Well to be honest, I was actually expecting to see a lot more people be upset with how Luke was used in this film, namely because of how many people I remembered posting (after TFA came out) that they couldn't wait to see the type of action sequences they would have Luke involved in for the sequel, let alone on how far his lightsaber skills have progressed since ROTJ.

Plus, I don't think anyone was expecting for him to die in this episode. The last film of this trilogy sure but in the middle of it? And to have died in a way where he never corrected his mistakes.

As a self contained/elsewhere story, I can appreciate this take. But in the grand scheme of things and to the overall legacy of the Skywalker mythology, I feel like this film will ultimately be far more detrimental to it than beneficial.

Plus to feed Luke to the guy that already took Han Solo from us is so messed up.

I think you must have seen the Ultimate Cut.....where do I find it?