My thoughts on the Obama era

[Paradoxium]

bash Bush on his spending and double down on spending yourself

 

[chaseter]

I'm not sure where you are getting 11%

I apologize, I was looking at Bush 1's numbers and not Bush 2's. It is 6.5% according to the census bureau.

But still, 95% is unheard of and again I am not trying to make it a blanket statement. I am only mentioning that race played an issue while the media and the left will have everyone believe that Obama won on his own merits. It was like a TDK perfect storm of events. Bush 2, an amazing campaign, historical implication of the first black president, and he was young while McCain was old. I would even say that age played a huge issue in the last race. I remember the hysteria that McCain might die and Palin would be president. That's ageist. I am just tired of all the people crying racism in their alphabet soup but they won't bring up racism from any other color that isn't white.

Voting for someone based on their race is racist. Plain and simple. People can deny it all they want but I just feel had McCain won over Obama, the charges for white racism would be every where. It's a double standard we have.

But who cares. I was just bringing up another side to the OP's post.

 

[Paradoxium]

As I pointed out a million times: Obama in practice was raised like a white progressive bohemian. Of his halves, he is more white than black. He is a white boy.

 

[chaseter]

The media even mentions him as being a black man and an African American. He is neither. It's just good business to use the race card.

 

[8wid]

Being killed didn't help. But JFK did have several legacies. He helped usher in the space age, and did a lot for the civil rights movement (especially compared to his predecessors).

If he had lived he would have ended the moon race to compromise with the Russians, end nuclear testing, withdrawn US advisers from Vietnam, create Medicare and Medicaid, start public broadcasting, and probably have been able to end the Cold War, even to coexist with Cuba.

But I have to say, black, white, or green, U.S. Presidents are in a corrupt system by its nature and each have their own flaws.

 

[DACrowe]

The media even mentions him as being a black man and an African American. He is neither. It's just good business to use the race card.

He's not black or African-American because he doesn't fit a stereotype? Granted, there are some in the black community who do consider black Americans not descended from slaves to be not real African-Americans. However, that in itself is a marginal view and I doubt what you are describing.

 

[hippie_hunter]

If he had lived he would have ended the moon race to compromise with the Russians, end nuclear testing, withdrawn US advisers from Vietnam, create Medicare and Medicaid, start public broadcasting, and probably have been able to end the Cold War, even to coexist with Cuba.

Yeah.....none of that would have ever happened. JFK's inability to work with Congress would have never created Medicare and Medicaid or public broadcasting and he was so obsessed with being a Cold Warrior that he would have never agreed to co-existing with Cuba (he personally ordered to invade Cuba half-assed and attempted to assassinate Castro several times under his watch) and he never would have ended the Cold War. And the Moon Race, he sorta initiated that too.

JFK is the most overrated President to have ever existed.

 

[SentinelMind]

Today I was thinking about how excited we were 3 years ago to see a black man run for President-we saw a world full of promise and possibilities. Promises that remain unfulfilled.

I don't say this because he has failed us thus far. I don't fully blame him for this country's sorry state of affairs. But many of us celebrated his victory on November 4, 2008 and seemed to believe that the world had miraculously changed. But what changed? Prejudice and ignorance are just as prominent as ever. The people who went to sleep the night before with hate and distrust in their hearts woke up the same way. Black people are still not getting a fair shake in the workplace or the legal system. But worst of all, we haven't changed. I heard a few people say, that if a man of Obama's humble background can make it to the White House, then the rest of us have no excuse. But excuses are rampant. We are still doing nothing. Not only did we abandon the man almost immediately after his inauguration, we turned our backs on his message. Did we band together to work toward a brighter future or did we continue to rob and kill each other for stupid reasons? Did we speak from our hearts with pride or did we continue to call ourselves n*****s? Did we start to treat the ladies in our community with love or did we continue calling them b*****s and h*'s? Did we collectively put down the joint/crackpipe and pick up a book? Did we put down the guns and look for jobs? Did our kids turn away from the rappers and athletes and look to Obama for inspiration and motivation? Did the rappers and athletes clean up their act, knowing that so many young, impressionable people consider them role models? Did we stop supporting the movies that cast us in a negative light? These are all rhetorical questions, mind you. We know the answers.

50 years from now, when our descendents read about the first time one of us was actually elected President, it should matter.

First, I disagree with the notion that Obama grew up from humble beginnings, he had Ivy League legacy and wealthy, connected white grandparents. He's an intelligent and educated man, but he was born closer to to third base than vast majority of Americans, Black or White.

The Black community should not be placing our hopes and aspirations
in one man. While it was nice to finally see a Black President, I was never emotionally invested in Obama's candidacy and I'm not emotionally invested in his re-election campaign. Our community needs to continue to promote education, church, and other family oriented institutions, not on searching for a messiah figure to turn around our culture. It will take hard work, but we have to begin with ourselves.

I don't know how the Obama era will turn out, but I knew that these leftwing government programs were not sustainable and that liberalism is an irresponsible ideology, no matter how rose-colored the glasses person in office is wearing. I'm not trying to attack the President, as I said before he is intelligent and talented, but I think he bought into his own hype in his ability to transform the dynamics of the world that he truly didn't fully understand. I tend to be very cynical, but I think viewing the world through grounded lens is the most responsible and satisfying way to live your life.

 

[8wid]

Yeah.....none of that would have ever happened. JFK's inability to work with Congress would have never created Medicare and Medicaid or public broadcasting and he was so obsessed with being a Cold Warrior that he would have never agreed to co-existing with Cuba (he personally ordered to invade Cuba half-assed and attempted to assassinate Castro several times under his watch) and he never would have ended the Cold War. And the Moon Race, he sorta initiated that too.

JFK is the most overrated President to have ever existed.

Perhaps you should watch this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqEJnVly8Jc

 

[hippie_hunter]

Perhaps you should watch this documentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqEJnVly8Jc

An incredibly biased documentary based on What Ifs and JFK's potential. JFK had the potential to do that stuff, but the facts are clear that he consistently butted heads with Congress and that he consistently fought the Commies as much as he could.

LBJ deserves almost all of the credit JFK gets. And even though I am not a fan of LBJ's policies, it's why I consider him to be the most underrated President, simply because everyone gives credit to JFK for all of his accomplishments.

 

[Kelly]

Same for Hoover and FDR....what FDR got passed, Hoover tried but couldn't get it through a Democrat run Congress...

 

[DACrowe]

An incredibly biased documentary based on What Ifs and JFK's potential. JFK had the potential to do that stuff, but the facts are clear that he consistently butted heads with Congress and that he consistently fought the Commies as much as he could.

LBJ deserves almost all of the credit JFK gets. And even though I am not a fan of LBJ's policies, it's why I consider him to be the most underrated President, simply because everyone gives credit to JFK for all of his accomplishments.

I won't comment on the what ifs of JFK, because the honest to God truth is that nobody knows. He did prevent escalating Vietnam into a full fledged war six times during his presidency (six more times than LBJ did) and being a WWII veteran had strong insights into what the cost of war was. I would not call him a hawk. The Bay of Pigs disaster he signed off on was the Pentagon's show and afterwards he publicly accepted the blame and never trusted the Pentagon again. I'd say he butted heads with the Joint Chiefs just as much as with Congress. That skepticism is what led to his finest moment during the Cuban Missile Crisis when his Administration pretty much saved the world despite the Pentagon seeing this as an opportunity to redeem themselves with a war after Bay of Pigs (and Nixon likely would have seen it as a challenge/test of his manhood, as he did so many things).

Would we have gone to a real war in Vietnam with JFK? He seemed reluctant and preferred special operations over military involvement so I'd like to think not, but we'll never really know so it's moot. Same goes with Civil Rights and Voting Rights. There is no doubt that master statesman LBJ used Kennedy's assassination as a catalyst into galvanizing his party to real action despite the Dixiecrats and the political repercussions (which his party still feels to this day every election). But they were on JFK's agenda and after CMC and the ascension of fringe candidate Barry Goldwater to the Republican nomination makes it likely he would have been reelected. If JFK lived to serve five more years, maybe he would have succeeded? This was the decade of King after all. But we'll never know.

I do agree though that Medicare and especially Medicaid were LBJ's initiatives and only his presidency made them a reality. LBJ is a lot like Nixon, IMO. Two men who did a number of great things and had enough achievements that they both could have gone down as two of the best presidents of all time....except they each made one mistake (or in Nixon's case, two) that were so tragically large that they can never be forgiven or reconciled with their accomplishments. It's why despite their successes, few historians will ever defend them. Vietnam, Cambodia and Watergate were just too costly, too tragic and too permanently damaging to the country to ever be overlooked, in my opinion.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I won't comment on the what ifs of JFK, because the honest to God truth is that nobody knows. He did prevent escalating Vietnam into a full fledged war six times during his presidency (six more times than LBJ did) and being a WWII veteran had strong insights into what the cost of war was. I would not call him a hawk. The Bay of Pigs disaster he signed off on was the Pentagon's show and afterwards he publicly accepted the blame and never trusted the Pentagon again. I'd say he butted heads with the Joint Chiefs just as much as with Congress. That skepticism is what led to his finest moment during the Cuban Missile Crisis when his Administration pretty much saved the world despite the Pentagon seeing this as an opportunity to redeem themselves with a war after Bay of Pigs (and Nixon likely would have seen it as a challenge/test of his manhood, as he did so many things).

To be fair, I think common sense was what prevailed with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Would we have gone to a real war in Vietnam with JFK? He seemed reluctant and preferred special operations over military involvement so I'd like to think not, but we'll never really know so it's moot. Same goes with Civil Rights and Voting Rights. There is no doubt that master statesman LBJ used Kennedy's assassination as a catalyst into galvanizing his party to real action despite the Dixiecrats and the political repercussions (which his party still feels to this day every election). But they were on JFK's agenda and after CMC and the ascension of fringe candidate Barry Goldwater to the Republican nomination makes it likely he would have been reelected. If JFK lived to serve five more years, maybe he would have succeeded? This was the decade of King after all. But we'll never know.

Now that is a far more reasonable assessment. Maybe he would have, but maybe he wouldn't have. You're absolutely right in the regard that we'll never know.

I do agree though that Medicare and especially Medicaid were LBJ's initiatives and only his presidency made them a reality. LBJ is a lot like Nixon, IMO. Two men who did a number of great things and had enough achievements that they both could have gone down as two of the best presidents of all time....except they each made one mistake (or in Nixon's case, two) that were so tragically large that they can never be forgiven or reconciled with their accomplishments. It's why despite their successes, few historians will ever defend them. Vietnam, Cambodia and Watergate were just too costly, too tragic and too permanently damaging to the country to ever be overlooked, in my opinion.

Exactly.

 

[Kelly]

I wish that the people in government during LBJ, would have had the same visionary ability as our writers of the constitution did....and realized that there could be a possibility that our life spans may change over time as medical care gets better.....but alas, politics outweighed vision.

 

[8wid]

An incredibly biased documentary based on What Ifs and JFK's potential. JFK had the potential to do that stuff, but the facts are clear that he consistently butted heads with Congress and that he consistently fought the Commies as much as he could.

LBJ deserves almost all of the credit JFK gets. And even though I am not a fan of LBJ's policies, it's why I consider him to be the most underrated President, simply because everyone gives credit to JFK for all of his accomplishments.

Have you even watched it before? It sights six major events where JFK prevents action against the Russians such as in Laos, the Berlin Wall, and Bay of Pigs where he lowered the political pressure of the Pentagon and prevented war. He did authorize a few assassinations, but had ordered the removal of 1,000 US advisers from Vietnam three weeks before his own assassination.

LBJ did all of the work when Kennedy died for the real bills, but I think two terms of JFK could have gotten it through in time.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Have you even watched it before? It sights six major events where JFK prevents action against the Russians such as in Laos, the Berlin Wall, and Bay of Pigs where he lowered the political pressure of the Pentagon and prevented war. He did authorize a few assassinations, but had ordered the removal of 1,000 US advisers from Vietnam three weeks before his own assassination.

That's because anyone with a sane mind isn't want to go to war with the Russians. War with Russia guaranteed the destruction of the United States and vice versa. If you or I were President, I guarantee that we would have done the exact same things.

But he sure did enjoy picking on smaller Communist countries like agreeing to go forward with Bay of Pigs or sending advisers into Vietnam.

LBJ did all of the work when Kennedy died for the real bills, but I think two terms of JFK could have gotten it through in time.

LBJ got it done because he knew how to work Congress. He was in Congress a decade longer than Kennedy and was the Senate Majority Leader.

The mere fact that JFK couldn't get along with a Congress with absurdly large Democratic majorities (even bigger than the one than Obama had), kinda shows how bad JFK was with Congress.

LBJ deserves all of JFK's credit.

 

[Snare]

Please don't compare people taking potshots at each other on Twitter to the bloodiest war in American history.

America has always had two political parties that don't agree on anything. It's tradition.

That would probably be the one where you nearly wiped out an entire race.

 

[chaseter]

He's not black or African-American because he doesn't fit a stereotype? Granted, there are some in the black community who do consider black Americans not descended from slaves to be not real African-Americans. However, that in itself is a marginal view and I doubt what you are describing.

African American is an out dated term. He is literally not from Africa and most of the people living here today are not from Africa either. They are Americans. Charlize Theron is an African American. Lastly, he is just as much white as he is black. While he can be proud to be a black man, more power to him, I just find it funny that the media largely leave out the white half as if it takes away something from him.

 

[Kelly]

I agree...

 

[DACrowe]

To be fair, I think common sense was what prevailed with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Common sense did prevail, but it took strong leadership to allow it. The Pentagon wanted to invade Cuba immediately and almost was able to when one of our stealth pilots was shot down and again when they fired over a ship at the blockade. The blockade itself was Kennedy's solution and it was their back channels with Russians that allowed Khrushchev the ability to negotiate around his hawks that wanted war.

Throughout history we've had leaders who may not have been so reasonable. Nixon after promising to end Vietnam escalated it by secretly bombing North Vietnam during negotiations to prove he was tough and started a secret war in Cambodia. Frankly, Nixon was too paranoid and saw everything as a challenge to his masculinity. I dread how he would have handled the crisis. Or a narrow minded leader like George W. Bush who thought he was always doing God's work. Or if Stalin had been the premiere of the Soviet Union.

History is full of examples of people behaving not in their best interest or ignoring common sense. JFK being able to stand up to the military and do that is a testament to his leadership and the shining moment of his short presidency.

Now that is a far more reasonable assessment. Maybe he would have, but maybe he wouldn't have. You're absolutely right in the regard that we'll never know.


Exactly.

Indeed, very much so.

 

[Kelly]

He's not black or African-American because he doesn't fit a stereotype? Granted, there are some in the black community who do consider black Americans not descended from slaves to be not real African-Americans. However, that in itself is a marginal view and I doubt what you are describing.

He might have been raised by his mother, but according to the census he is black, because that is the race of his father.

 

[DACrowe]

My point was that he is black and I find it odd that people say "he's not really black" because he does not act like what they classify as typical behavior of blacks. I won't go further than that. I also don't think he shies away from his racial duality as he wrote a whole book on it. One of the finest memoirs by a politician I ever read btw....because he wrote it before he went into politics, so it rang more of truth than pretense as the second one did.

 

[Kelly]

Well, by way of the census, he is black.....but if you look at his upbrining, his father had very little influence in his life. He was raised by his white mother and grandparents.

He is looked at as black, and he is judged according to whatever people think of blacks.

So, all I can say is.....depends on who is looking at him. IMO, he is bi-racial, upper middle class, ivy league, well educated man.

 

[Paradoxium]

It's just the racist fringe element who try to shoehorn him as "he is black", whereas the more reasonable people look at his actual background first.

 

[chaseter]

My point was that he is black and I find it odd that people say "he's not really black" because he does not act like what they classify as typical behavior of blacks.

Those people would be racists.

Black typically refers to a person of African ancestry. White typically refers to a person of Caucasian ancestry. Obama is technically half black, half white. And again, I think the terms African American and Caucasian American or whatever the **** the PC police call white people today are outdated, ignorant, blanket terms. My point was that the media and the left seem to want to ignore his white ancestry as if it makes him as a person and his historical significance any less, when it really doesn't. It doesn't and shouldn't because we shouldn't be about race anymore in this country and 2008 was all about that. Right now race is being used as a political ploy and that is wrong.

Biological speaking, two white parents of white ancestry can have a black child. In today's world, he would be labeled as African American. That's stupid. Everyone talks about wanting to get past race in this country but everyone brings it up at the drop of a hat.