Nigeria - Boko Haram

[Breogan]

It's been pointed out - 12 killed in Paris, foreign leaders and over 1.5 million people link arms in historic march.
Meanwhile that same week, Boko Haram militants killed up to 2,000 people, mostly civilians, in a massacre, culminating with explosives strapped to a 10-years-old girl who detonated on Saturday, killing at least 20.

It's been asked, where's the march? Where's the coverage? Where's the thread?
OK, so here it is.


Are we involved?

Should we be?

Where do we go from here ?


Discuss.

Infamous Boko Haram leader: "We will sell the girls on the market..." vid.
[YT]shhj3LQrHKE[/YT]

 

[Silvermoth]

I'm not sure what you mean by "are we involved?" I don't think the west orchestrated the attack but if you mean are we involved in the defence, the west has sent billions and defence personal to train people in a response.

It's pretty obvious we do need to get involved. Besides the obvious human rights issue, Nigeria plays a critical role in african solutions for african issues so it deserves the same level of respect and help as Paris did.

Where do we go from here is tricky. The Nigerian government is not great when it comes to incorruptibility so just sending help won't solve it. Ultimately focusing on community based solutions as well as defensive is the best way to help as well as redusing income disparity between the oil rich North and the poor but potentially radicalised South

 

[Venomfan]

I haven't heard anything about this in the media. I've just read about it on forums where people are asking why the Paris thing has gotten so much attention and this hasn't when it was a much larger tragedy. The only reason I can think of is that Paris is part of the western world, but still really strange as I remember the kidnapped girls having quite a large social media movement last year

 

[DeadPresident]

With Charlie Hebdo's attack there was an assault on the liberty that France, and a lot of Europe, was built on. So there was solidarity amongst the Europeans and the Western world at large.

Boko Haram is tearing Nigeria apart. Why aren't Nigerians and other African countries showing solidarity? The entire world can't look to the the West to be offended on their behalf when any atrocity occurs. People need to realize international peacekeeping organizations like the UN are completely toothless and they should look for internal avenues to solving their problems.

 

[Chesterfield]

If that's the case then the West need to keep their noses out of a African affairs in all matters and stop pillaging their natural resources to which the West fundimentally owes so much for.

 

[DeadPresident]

If that's the case then the West need to keep their noses out of a African affairs in all matters and stop pillaging their natural resources to which the West fundimentally owes so much for.

I believe you'll find that China is most active in pillaging natural resources from Africa at the moment. In terms of past pillaging I'd agree, but then there should be an official policy of reparation rather than some socially implied vague line of compensation. What does the Queen of England need to repay South Africa before she's "paid off" the Cullinan Diamond for example? If the West actually wants to right past wrongs things need to be fleshed out a bit more than "we'll save you from the odd civil war every 10-15 years".

Either way, the West isn't responsible for remedying the social ills of any and all country's once touched by colonialism.

 

[Venomfan]

With Charlie Hebdo's attack there was an assault on the liberty that France, and a lot of Europe, was built on. So there was solidarity amongst the Europeans and the Western world at large.

Boko Haram is tearing Nigeria apart. Why aren't Nigerians and other African countries showing solidarity? The entire world can't look to the the West to be offended on their behalf when any atrocity occurs. People need to realize international peacekeeping organizations like the UN are completely toothless and they should look for internal avenues to solving their problems.

I get that, but the kidnappings had quite a big social media presence despite being in the same country with the same perps. Maybe its just because of timing? The france thing is too big because of the reasons you've mentioned?

 

[Cobblepot]

The US already trained Nigerian law enforcement, that didn't go well. Most of the invested money went to corrupt politicians.

 

[Venomfan]

watching this now
Why isn't the world rallying against Boko Haram?
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2648167299/
[YT]i78FX72FOnc[/YT]

 

[Victarion]

Cynical as it sounds, probably because they don't pose a threat to the interests of those that rallied for the Paris attacks?

 

[tzarinna]

^Bingo. Those poor people.

 

[Victarion]

I saw this getting some coverage tonight.

 

[Thundercrack85]

While I'd be all for some air strikes, the Nigerians need to fight this battle.

The problem is that Nigeria even without Boko Haram is a mess. There is constant religious conflict between the Muslim and Christians halves, which could turn into a civil war. Then there's the usual corruption, and a history of military coups.

Boko Haram is just part of a larger religious conflict that has been going on for some time.

 

[DeadPresident]

I get that, but the kidnappings had quite a big social media presence despite being in the same country with the same perps. Maybe its just because of timing? The france thing is too big because of the reasons you've mentioned?

It's because of timing, but also because African/peripheral international news doesn't get as much coverage as Western news. Everyone can play the imperialism/Western hegemony card, but the fact of the matter is that events outside of Japan, China, Russia, EU and North America simply don't have as much effect on the global economic or geopolitical arenas, so they don't get reported on as much.

I don't think it's quite "learned helplessness" yet, but I find it ironic that when there's a tragedy like Boko Haram's murders everybody asks why "the world" (i.e, the West) doesn't get involved. Oftentimes when the West does get involved, they'll still be criticized because they didn't do X/Y/Z "correctly" according to all the armchair critics.

When Charlie Hebdo happened nobody asked for solidarity from Africa, Asia, etc. I'm assuming it's because the underlying assumption is that Europe can look after itself. With various third world tragedies everyone looks to the West for help, the underlying assumption probably being that these countries can't solve their own problems. It's 2015, it's time for these countries to learn how to take care of themselves. If the structures of power aren't benefitting the people it's the people that need to unify and achieve change. Nigeria has almost 200 million people, if they're all so concerned about their own citizens surely they can stand together? If not, I guess those lives don't matter to Nigerians as much as they do to the bleeding hearts trendy liberals in the West.

I don't condone Boko Haram's actions, but every country can't suddenly look to North America/Europe for help when they let barbarians take over a province in their country. Has anyone seen any reports of the Nigerian president speaking out against Boko Haram? Does anybody even know who the Nigerian president is? It may sound cruel but people only care about Boko Haram because it's a hot topic right now, it'll cool off and everyone will forget that 200 girls were kidnapped. For interest's sake, the Nigerian president Goodluck Jonathan only made a recent visit to Borno because of upcoming elections. He didn't intervene after any of the atrocities. Not even their own president gives a **** about what's going on, why should anyone else? I'd like to see a change in the situation, but I'm not going to lay that responsibility at the door of the global arbiters of civilized morality, I'll lay it at the door of the person who is in charge of the welfare of all his citizens.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Boko Haram Suspected in Cross-Border Attack and Kidnapping

Fighters suspected of being members of Boko Haram kidnapped around 80 people Sunday in an attack on villages across the border from Nigeria in Cameroon, Reuters reports. Many of those taken were children.

"According to our initial information, around 30 adults, most of them herders, and 50 young girls and boys aged between 10 and 15 years were abducted," a senior army officer told Reuters.

Cameroon's Information Minister Issa Tchiroma Bakary confirmed the attacks to the BBC. "They burnt to ashes almost 80 houses," he said, saying also that the exact number of people kidnapped had not yet been confirmed.

Cameroon's border with Nigeria is "long and porous," the BBC reports; Boko Haram's leader recently warned that raids across the border will increase in intensity.

Thousands of Cameroonian troops have been deployed to the region, supplemented by troops from Chad. According to the BBC, Chad's military has "an impressive record of taking on insurgents."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/18/us-nigeria-violence-cameroon-idUSKBN0KR0R420150118

Something should be done about these monsters but I doubt the USA will be the one to pull the trigger on these guys

 

[Victarion]

What exactly do these people believe they are fighting for or fighting against?

 

[Thundercrack85]

For Islam, against everything else, but particularly Christianity.

 

[Red Mask]

After the "Bring Our Girls Back" tagline died off, I realized Nigeria was truly on its own. Hundreds more have been kidnapped since, many others killed.

If anybody is still wishing the Black Panther would handle this then grow up first.

 

[the gael]

The situation in Nigeria is a mess. And, sadly, it can spread to other countries, like Cameroon.

Nigeria is divided between a muslim north and an animist and christian south. frequently, at "the border" between muslim and christian Nigeria (like the cities of Jos and Abuja), there are some bloody incident between the two communities.

And the vast oil reserves of the country tempt many people.

the nigerian army is a big mess, like many other african armies (look at what happened to the Mali, which had to call France to stop the djihadist who invaded the country). They aren't able to fight back and stop Boko Haram.

The only way to stop Boko Haram is to have another occidental nation do the job, and it's sad, because african countries should be able to do the job alone. You are really independant only if you can protect your border alone.

These Boko Aram guys are really mad and dangerous. I have seen report that they do things that even Hitler would have done. They should be stopped but... how, if Nigeria is not able to protect itself ?

 

[terry78]

Someone from the outside could assist, but if they don't want to accept and prefer taking care of their own house, what can you do?

 

[Venomfan]

Someone from the outside could assist, but if they don't want to accept and prefer taking care of their own house, what can you do?

surely there has to be a point when someone has gone too far though. Like if Hitler never invaded Poland and we still knew what he was doing to the Jews and other minorities, at some point someone would intervene right?

 

[terry78]

Well, you got some places that would rather implode than accept help from any of us.

 

[Red Mask]

surely there has to be a point when someone has gone too far though. Like if Hitler never invaded Poland and we still knew what he was doing to the Jews and other minorities, at some point someone would intervene right?

There's already a doctrine about this entitled The Responsibility to Protect. Ironically, it was partially created by African representatives in the United Nations and published in 2001. It has been used to support action taken in places like Darfur, Southern Sudan, the Ivory Coast, Liberia, Libya, Syria, and Mali.

Why this hasn't been used to combat Boko Haram, I don't know. But I don't expect Powell's Africom to solve the problem.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

At Least 200 Killed in Boko Haram Assault on Major Nigerian City

Islamist group Boko Haram launched an assault from three fronts on Maiduguri, a city of 2 million people in Nigeria's northeast, early Sunday morning, the Associated Press reports. This latest attack was repelled, and at least 200 combatants were killed.

"Certainly this is the most serious attack yet," Kashim Shettima, the governor of the state of Borno, told the New York Times. "We faced a really existential threat." Maiduguri—which the AP describes as the "birthplace" of Boko Haram—is the capital of Borno.

"In the early hours of the day the Boko Haram wanted to come into town," an anonymous federal police official told the Times. "But by the grace of God, we have repelled them."

Even as bombs dropped on insurgent positions around Maiduguri, however, Boko Haram fighters reportedly overran a major military installation in the smaller city of Monguno to the north. The BBC reported that Nigerian soldiers who had fled Monguno were arriving in Maiduguri. Sahara Reporters, however, reported that that attack was also repelled.

On Saturday, Boko Haram released 190 captives in the state of Yobe, Reuters reported. On Friday, at least 14 people were killed when suspected Boko Haram fighters torched the village of Kambari, three miles from Maiduguri.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7687...acks-northeastern-nigerian-city-dozens-killed

One wonders how far they will go before someone with the firepower to stop them will step in?

 

[DeadPresident]

surely there has to be a point when someone has gone too far though. Like if Hitler never invaded Poland and we still knew what he was doing to the Jews and other minorities, at some point someone would intervene right?

Nope. One of the biggest and most important aspects of any nation state is sovereignty. All other nations must recognize each other's territory and sovereignty. Unless one country asks another for assistance, it'll take something much more than a few thousand deaths for some Western savior to intervene. Nigeria's own president hasn't been to Borno more than a couple of times. He's apparently promised to go all out against Boko Haram, but we'll have to see if that was empty bluster to appease his people.

It's going to take a lot more than what's happened right now for a Western force to interfere. If al-Assad could (allegedly) kill several hundred of his own citizens with chemical weapons without repercussions I don't think anybody is going to help the Nigerians. The UN lied when they said "Never Again" after WWII, it's been happening at least once every decade for the past 60 years and still nobody intervenes.

Supposedly before the Rwandan genocide it was known between 2-4 years prior that something about killing all Tutsis was brewing. Various signs were there related to what they were importing that something wasn't quite right a year beforehand, and yet over half a million Tutsis were killed before anybody could run around all the red tape to attempt to help.