Nine Eleven - let's open up a can of worms

[Lantern Venom]

I have never and will never buy into the theory that the U.S. government had any direct hand in the planning and execution of 9/11. I'm sure there is more to the story than what we know and I don't doubt that some monumental errors were made that could have prevented the massacre. However, I find it impossible to believe that our leaders, while flawed in many ways, would be so animalistic that they would knowingly sacrifice thousands or innocent lives for financial or political ends.
As far as the "scientific" evidence that 9/11 was fabricated, all I have seen so far are a bunch of amatuer Agent Mulders spouting half-baked conjecture. 9/11 was a colossal tragedy. Let's not turn it into a sideshow.

 

[Gerald Root]

You don't really know our government then. They have and are actively sacrificing lives for financial and/or political gain. It's been done before, it'll be done again and again and again in some form or another. Recently,it's been going on for the past 6 years now.

 

[Lantern Venom]

You don't really know our government then. They have and are actively sacrificing lives for financial and/or political gain. It's been done before, it'll be done again and again and again in some form or another. Recently,it's been going on for the past 6 years now.

Sorry but I'm not a nihilist or or a conspiracy junkie. I believe that the majority of our politicians are good people at heart not secret band of bloodthirsty, evil geniuses. Moreover, I don't sit in my parent's basement, listening to crackpots on the radio/internet and producing laughable theories with more holes in them than a mesh jersey.

 

[Hotwire]

Sorry but I'm not a nihilist or or a conspiracy junkie. I believe that the majority of our politicians are good people at heart not secret band of bloodthirsty, evil geniuses. Moreover, I don't sit in my parent's basement, listening to crackpots on the radio/internet and producing laughable theories with more holes in them than a mesh jersey.

So explain exactly why we are in Iraq right now. I'd ask you to remember that our initial reason for it all was that Saddam supposedly had weapons of mass destruction and was ready to use them on us. (For the record, he didn't.)

Also, remember Vietnam? That was started by the Bay of Tonkin incident. Back in 2005, it was revealed, that it never happened. So, yes. Our government has been, and will continue to be willing to send thousands to their deaths for political gain.

 

[Gerald Root]

I'm not a conspiracy theory junkie either. But it's not hard to understand why we are in Iraq right now with our soldiers being killed every day in a war that cannot be won. The government really doesn't give a **** about the everyday common man. They don't care. They give us just enough information to keep the big machine going, but they don't want an educated public, they don't want a public that knows everything. And, honestly, it works. It has worked. It's probably not going to change at all.

 

[Hotwire]

This I dont understand...Bush leaving instantly would have simpyl added to the chaos and confusion; it would have sent a message that our President was scared so obviously we should be. I hate Bush with a passion but thats a stupid insult.

No, it would have sent the message that, "WTF!?!?! We're under attack!?! Sorry folks, but there is someplace I need to be right now. Gotta go!" I can think of only three reasons why a president would just sit there.
1. He knew it was going to happen and was not worried about it.
2. He thought it was a nuclear attack and knew that they would all be vaporized any minute anyway.
3. He was simply dumbstruck. In which case he had no business being our Commander in Chief.

 

[Lantern Venom]

So explain exactly why we are in Iraq right now. I'd ask you to remember that our initial reason for it all was that Saddam supposedly had weapons of mass destruction and was ready to use them on us. (For the record, he didn't.)

.

Bush had that planned ( thought not well thought-out ) before his presidency. His goal was to "clean up" his dad's legacy. 9/11 just gave him a diluted excuse to go after Saddam.

 

[Hotwire]

Bush had that planned ( thought not well thought-out ) before his presidency. His goal was to "clean up" his dad's legacy. 9/11 just gave him a diluted excuse to go after Saddam.

That was pretty much my point. Others would contend that we have a legit reason for being there, but us conspiracy junkies say otherwise.

 

[Gerald Root]

Bush had that planned ( thought not well thought-out ) before his presidency. His goal was to "clean up" his dad's legacy. 9/11 just gave him a diluted excuse to go after Saddam.

Even if that were the one true and only reason, don't you think the point has been made by now? Saddam's dead! We caught him, he was taken to court and he was executed. What are we still doing there? And again, being that reason to clean up his dad's legacy being the main reason as you say, how is US soldiers getting killed because of nothing more than a bruised ego of one man not an example of people being sacrificed for a minority's gain, in this case and by your logic, one or two ****ing people. Get a grip man.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I have never and will never buy into the theory that the U.S. government had any direct hand in the planning and execution of 9/11.

This is why they got away with it, because they knew that most people, rather than being interested in the TRUTH, would feel like that.

I have seen this often in anti-conspiracy people.
They don't just say that they don't believe it, they often have to expose their mindset by adding, "I will never believe it."

Meaning, you can PROVE it to them, and they don't care, they "will never believe".
That is such dangerous, dogmatic thinking, because guess what? You CAN be wrong about something.


I have talked to uninformed people who "would not believe" that our nation tested LSD on people without their knowledge, and Bill freaking CLINTON made a formal apology and announced the payment of reparations to the family of a "subject" who "killed himself" while on a mega dose of CIA LSD at a PRESS CONFERENCE, on video.

It's a F.A.C.T., and people will not believe it...making themselves fools.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Even if that were the one true and only reason, don't you think the point has been made by now? Saddam's dead! We caught him, he was taken to court and he was executed. What are we still doing there? And again, being that reason to clean up his dad's legacy being the main reason as you say, how is US soldiers getting killed because of nothing more than a bruised ego of one man not an example of people being sacrificed for a minority's gain, in this case and by your logic, one or two ****ing people. Get a grip man.

Dubya went into Iraq with little or no idea how to handle a post-Saddam country. Now, we are seeing how flawed that strategy was. Bush still believes that he's doing the right thing by trying to stabilize the country rather than pull out. The soldiers in the military understand they are taking a risk by enlisting. They know when they sign up that they might be deployed for reasons with which they don't agree. They accept that.

This scenario is wholly different than the tinfoil hat crowd's version of 9/11. They sit in their underwear ,eating cheetos with one hand and typing unsubstantiated fodder with the other. That's easier than talking to women, right? Bush may be inept, reactionary and tunnel-visioned but I will never believe that he's the head of a mass murdering washington illuminati until I have loads and loads and loads of hard facts.

 

[The Guard]

Bush still believes that he's doing the right thing by trying to stabilize the country rather than pull out.

At this point, it's debatable, given the context of the situation. Bush may have believed he was doing the right thing by getting rid of the existing dictatorship (with some fringe benefits for a certain group of friends and their businesses), but at this point, he really just has no choice but to stay because if we leave the region, things will be so, so much worse than they were before.

 

[Hotwire]

Some of you seem to be forgeting that after 9/11 Bush & Co. kept saying there were ties between Al Queda and Saddam, which was a lie. My point is, if the government was willing to lie about that, and lie about the Gulf of Tonkin, what about 9/11 is also a lie?

 

[Gerald Root]

At this point, it's debatable, given the context of the situation. Bush may have believed he was doing the right thing by getting rid of the existing dictatorship (with some fringe benefits for a certain group of friends and their businesses), but at this point, he really just has no choice but to stay because if we leave the region, things will be so, so much worse than they were before.

Oh no, he never would have left Iraq under his watch. He is putting that disaster off to whomever wins the election. And it is going to be a disaster of his making. To lie to us that Saddam was part of the 9/11 attack was the perfect excuse to get "some fringe benefits for certain friends". That's all it was ever about. It wasn't about doing the right thing. The image or idea of Bush thinking he was doing the right thing by invading Iraq is BS. It's what they want you think, that at the worst it was a bad decision made in a chaotic time in America, hoping for some of the blame and heat to be taken off the Bush admin. But it wasn't. I'm not saying Bush is the head honcho of all this, that he was the mastermind and he made it all up because that's just giving him too much credit. But there is no doubt he is part of it.

 

[jks]

*sigh*

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

http://powerflv.com/play2?cat=Docum...ew+Loose+Change&actual_title=Full+Documentary

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/911myths

http://www.debunking911.com/

I can go on and on. The laws of physics, science in general and common sense are telling you conspiracy nutjobs to move on before you embarrass yourself, what few friends you have, and your families any more than you already have.

 

[jks]

9/11 was staged by th government using state of the art never before seen "Blue Light" technology. Primarily, it involves setting up a series of giant holographic images, so life like, people would believe they're actually seeing a plane crash into the WTC. However, the truth is, the WTC was brought down by a controlled demolition by the government in order to begin this so called War on Terror and cause turmoil in the Middle East. Why? Gas Prices. The war in Iraq primarily has driven the price of oil to record highs. Meanwhile, all the big DC Politicians line their pockets with kickbacks from the Saudi's and other big oil companies.

Rofl, you might want to take that post down before someone thinks a human being is actually dumb enough to believe that.

 

[DorkyFresh]

jks, quit being a prick.

 

[Nightmare]

jks >>>>>>>> me

 

[jks]

jks, quit being a prick.

That might have carried some weight behind it if you were actually somebody.

 

[jks]

This is why they got away with it, because they knew that most people, rather than being interested in the TRUTH, would feel like that.

I have seen this often in anti-conspiracy people.
They don't just say that they don't believe it, they often have to expose their mindset by adding, "I will never believe it."

Meaning, you can PROVE it to them, and they don't care, they "will never believe".
That is such dangerous, dogmatic thinking, because guess what? You CAN be wrong about something.


I have talked to uninformed people who "would not believe" that our nation tested LSD on people without their knowledge, and Bill freaking CLINTON made a formal apology and announced the payment of reparations to the family of a "subject" who "killed himself" while on a mega dose of CIA LSD at a PRESS CONFERENCE, on video.

It's a F.A.C.T., and people will not believe it...making themselves fools.

you go on and on about the conspiracy of the govt being behind 9/11 as a F.A.C.T., yet you have no evidence or F.A.C.T.S. backing you up....making yourself a fool.

 

[Hotwire]

you go on and on about the conspiracy of the govt being behind 9/11 as a F.A.C.T., yet you have no evidence or F.A.C.T.S. backing you up....making yourself a fool.

Here are some facts.
1. The administration had been told Al Queda was planning an attack on U.S. soil using commerical airliners. They did nothing.
2. The president of this country was informed that the country was under attack. He did nothing for 12 minutes.
3. The administration took the fear, panic, and anger that our country was feeling, and used it to gain support for a war with a country that wasn't even involved.

 

[DorkyFresh]

That might have carried some weight behind it if you were actually somebody.

doesn't matter who i am. you came in here and immediately started blasting other people for their beliefs. this thread has been fairly civilized with only a couple of insults that, thankfully, haven't gone any further but the only posts you've made in this thread so far have included insults, all 4 of them. argue the topic, not the people. if you continue to make insulting posts (aka trolling) then you will be reported...


...how's that for weight?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I wouldn't be surprised if the goverment had something to do with 9/11. Planes did hit those buildings though, to believe anything differently is just silly.

 

[Captain Planet!]

What do I think? I think a lot of people died.

 

[DorkyFresh]

i don't think anyone will argue against those planes hitting the towers. if they do, then they're obviously delusional. what's questionable is who were operating the planes and why and why the towers collapsed in the first place.