Now Introducing HBO Max Classic

[Iceman]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling the only reason Jenkins and Gadot already got extra pay check is because Wonder Woman is the only release set in stone. They're sacrificing it 100% to see how it works out for them. The rest is up in the air depending on initial results.

Yeah, longer term plans can change depending how WW performs.

 

[Iceman]

WB, At&T —whoever shouldve talked to these people. Theres no debate about that. Theyre in the wrong for that. They took the “easiest” path of least resistance. Maybe they felt there was no point in telling these people who were gonna get mad anyway and they didn't wanna deal with a bunch of kicking and screaming because they were going to move forward with this plan come Hell or high water regardless. I dont know. But theyre wrong and they messed up badly there.

But there is a very real concern about what to do with these movies and how long they can keep pushing them back. I admire Disney for holding the fort with BW but its becoming more and more likely that movie’s gonna under perform. Its not gonna hit a billion thats for sure. Theres a very real chance that even if WB didnt do this and held out that we’d be in this same spot come next June where once again theaters arent a safe and viable profitable option.

Yeah you always talk to people, not doing that part was dumb regardless of their plans and their firmness about them.

 

[Fincher]

It really feels like some people just can't accept the suggestion that maybe the best way to watch a movie isn't in your living room with the lights on in pajamas, where you can just pause what's happening every time you want to check your phone or go to the bathroom or get more pizza rolls. Or that the people who make our movies are artists who want their work to be fully realized and experienced as it was meant to be. We've become so obsessed with convenience and individual-specialization that any pushback is declared "elitist" or "just about money."

Watching at home is the best way for me. Maybe it isn't the best way for the artist sometimes (if I made a movie, I wouldn't care), but just like how I feel about their movie or how I interpret their movie, it isn't always up to them. That's the nature of art/entertainment being an interaction between the creator and the audience. Now to a point they can control how I experience it (to the extent that those who actually own the rights go along with it), but I always have the option of waiting for DVD or not watching at all.

 

[BatLobster]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling the only reason Jenkins and Gadot already got extra pay check is because Wonder Woman is the only release set in stone. They're sacrificing it 100% to see how it works out for them. The rest is up in the air depending on initial results.

You could be right. Either way, it's a bit of a potential bait and switch-- either on their talent or on the subscribers they are trying to entice right now. It just seems like not a good way to do business. I do not trust AT&T in the slightest here.

WB may be a part of the Hollywood machine and a huge company in its own right. But they understand the movie business on a fundamental level that it's becoming clear AT&T simply does not. There is a set of brand values there that this move turned completely on its head.

This became even more clear to me with Disney's announcements yesterday. Yes, The Mouse is a juggernaut, and it's frankly kinda scary. And we can have a whole discussion about how the iron grip on the entertainment business probably helped bring about the AT&T merger. But at the very least, I can say that they really understand the business that they're in and are extremely effective at operating in that space. It doesn't mean that they don't make mistakes. But on the whole, the track record is phenomenal.

 

[Micromind]

While I'm all for preserving theatrical experience and vision of film-makers, it would be disingenuous to think of only one section of people (that is, the Producers, screen-artists, directors and film crew) and not about safety of movie going audience.

Same day /date release gives audiences a choice, which is the right thing to do in face of ongoing pandemic. The plan may sound anti-film makers at first but you have look at the wider-picture.

 

[BatLobster]

While I'm all for preserving theatrical experience and vision of film-makers, it would be disingenuous to think of only one section of people (that is, the Producers, screen-artists, directors and film crew) and not about safety of movie going audience.

Same day /date release gives audiences a choice, which is the right thing to do in face of ongoing pandemic. The plan may sound anti-film makers at first but you have look at the wider-picture.

It's a false choice though. There were other options. Other studios are waiting to see what happens. Announcing the full slate a year in advance has nothing to do with "doing the right thing" in the pandemic, and everything to do with a desperate stunt to try to goose their subs for a struggling streaming service in order to puff up the stock price while using the pandemic as an excuse.

How about making some great original HBO Max exclusive content and earning those subscribers the old-fashioned way? Rather than hijacking the work of filmmakers who did not sign up for that, and specifically had signed on to make movies for the big screen. While cannibalizing a big piece of your own business that may still have a chance to flourish when we're back to some version of normal.

Like....I used to happily subscribe to HBO (still do, cause I can't get Max as a Roku user) because they had the best content in TV, bar none. Now the best they've got is this gimmick?

 

[Micromind]

How about making some great original HBO Max exclusive content and earning those subscribers the old-fashioned way? Rather than hijacking the work of filmmakers who did not sign up for that, and specifically had signed on to make movies for the big screen. While cannibalizing a big piece of your own business that may still have a chance to flourish when we're back to some version of normal.

Who says they're not going to do that ?

 

[Erzengel]

Like....I used to happily subscribe to HBO (still do, cause I can't get Max as a Roku user) because they had the best content in TV, bar none. Now the best they've got is this gimmick?

HBO Max I feel has the best library but in terms of new content as in HBO Max exclusive, I think I've only watched the Action Park documentary but I hear good things about Raised by Wolves but other than that, none of it has been very sci-fi/comic/action (geek) friendly.

 

[BatLobster]

Who says they're not going to do that ?

Then do it, announce what you've got in the works, and use that to entice subscribers. If they were confident about that, they wouldn't be simultaneously using and cannibalizing a whole other division of the company right now.

I'm sure more original content is part of the overall plan. But I'm sorry, if your only method of jumpstarting your subscription service is by offering same-release theatrical movies, then clearly you are in fear that you service is severely lacking somehow. Cause last time I checked, streaming has been thriving just fine without that gimmick.

And it's a shame, because HBO Max does have fantastic content. This isn't necessary. They should've done a much better job with the rollout and marketing. It was a clusterf***.

Now WB and the filmmakers it partnered with are paying the price for AT&T's incompetence.

 

[Micromind]

Eh, those movies were going to either underperform or bomb, at least the simultaneous release in theatres and HBO Max will ensure that many people will get to see it, and they now have the freedom to choose theatres or their home, we will have to see if the audience supports it.

The Studio will still lose money though (piracy), only benefit is gaining more subscribers but that will prove profitable only in long run.

 

[Mysteryman]

Seeing the Disney+ announcements today, it seems pretty clear why HBO MAX feels like they need content, and Disney+ doesn't.

IT SURE DOES!

 

[TheVileOne]

AOL used to own Time Warner everyone. Remember that?

 

[CaptainWagner]

AOL used to own Time Warner everyone. Remember that?

Break up AT&T and bring back AOL

After yesterday, it's truly incredible how badly HBOMax has been fumbled. WB owns the rights to so many incredible franchises and obviously has huge buying power, and yet they've offered up nothing but some vague DC projects and a Fresh Prince reboot, all with little fanfare. They got a freaking Ridley Scott show, but barely marketed it. It's just amazing the minimal effort they're putting into this project.

But seriously, though, break up AT&T. That merger never should have been allowed in the first place.

 

[TheVileOne]

I totally foresaw stuff like this happening. It's why I didn't support the merger. It should not have been approved.

Say what you will about Disney, but at the end of the day, Disney is an entertainment company, not a telecommunications one.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

AT&T is already selling off assets because they're under so much debt. Like DirecTV and Crunchyroll. As a telecom in some metrics they've fallen to third after Verizon and the T-Mobile/Sprint merger. Who knows, they could sell off Time Warner in the future but hopefully not to Disney.

 

[kguillou]

Man Villaneuve’s words are brutal but I understand him. I’ll be honest the more I read about this the harder it is for me to be in WB’s corner and I admit i was for their decision to do this at first.

Ok, with this damage done and all of their best filmmaker’s about to create mutiny. What is WB’s move here to fix this? Can they fix this? Do they hold the line?

 

[Detective Conan]

Christopher Nolan Doubles Down on Warner Bros.: ‘A Sign of Great Danger’ for Unions, Artisans

 

[BatLobster]

Christopher Nolan Doubles Down on Warner Bros.: ‘A Sign of Great Danger’ for Unions, Artisans

This is consistent with what he was cautioning about in his op-ed earlier this year. He raises extremely valid points.

 

[kguillou]

@Comicbookguy339 posted this in the JL Lounge but this is juicy s*** right here guys. So this is all Toby Emmerich’s doing apparently. He spearheaded this decision so that he could look like the pioneering savior of HBO Max and rise in the corporate ranks. In other words, this is the JL fiasco all over again with Tsujihara wanting to crap the movie out fast to get their bonuses.

Emmerich felt it was all worth the risk of damaging the ties with their filmmakers.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Break up AT&T and bring back AOL

After yesterday, it's truly incredible how badly HBOMax has been fumbled. WB owns the rights to so many incredible franchises and obviously has huge buying power, and yet they've offered up nothing but some vague DC projects and a Fresh Prince reboot, all with little fanfare. They got a freaking Ridley Scott show, but barely marketed it. It's just amazing the minimal effort they're putting into this project.

But seriously, though, break up AT&T. That merger never should have been allowed in the first place.

And they are selling off Crunchyroll so losing all that anime.

@Comicbookguy339 posted this in the JL Lounge but this is juicy s*** right here guys. So this is all Toby Emmerich’s doing apparently. He spearheaded this decision so that he could look like the pioneering savior of HBO Max and rise in the corporate ranks. In other words, this is the JL fiasco all over again with Tsujihara wanting to crap the movie out fast to get their bonuses.

Emmerich felt it was all worth the risk of damaging the ties with their filmmakers.

At least WB is consistent with their higher ups looking out for themselves above everything else.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

@kguillou

Didn't know there was a thread, thanks for tagging me.

Very curious to see what will happen with this theaters vs streaming situation. Personally I think that theaters will be decimated this year because it will take longer than many think to get the pandemic under control, even with vaccines. But I also don't think they'll be gone forever. 2022 will probably start a slow but steady comeback for theaters.

I'm mixed on AT&T's decision to release Warner's 2021 slate simultaneously in theaters and streaming. On the one hand, I think it's the right call in 2021. As I mentioned before, I believe it's way too optimistic to think that movie-going will return to more or less normal by mid-year (Black Widow will either prove me right or wrong) so a simultaneous release on two different platforms might actually make more money than putting a movie in theaters only.

The concerns of directors (and actors) seem to be two-fold. Firstly, they think AT&T's plan will screw them out of residuals because an added streaming option will cut down box office revenue. If they think that theater attendance will return to normal relatively soon then I can understand the argument but again I think they're being very optimistic. I don't think the added option of streaming will make a big impact on the box office in 2021. Even if streaming isn't an option then a lot of people would still skip theaters and these movies would lose money. I'm sure Villeneuve and others would be happy if Warner (and other studios) delayed their movies another year if theaters don't recover fast enough but in that case studios would have to stop making new content until they can unload the stuff they already have finished. Doesn't make sense to go into production on new projects when you have a huge backlog that is costing you money to sit on every month. Add in shareholders who are getting antsy and another year-long delay just isn't very feasible.

Secondly, there's this argument that if AT&T puts these movies on streaming then theaters will die forever. Basically, we will become so accustomed to this model that we'll never want to go back to theaters. On the one hand, I understand the concern that streaming won't be able to support big tent-poles like box office revenue can. But I don't think one year's worth of movies going to streaming will necessarily do that. And if people really don't want to go back to cinemas then maybe theaters don't deserve to survive. Instead of Nolan and Villeneuve lecturing moviegoers, they should perhaps reflect on why many are so quick to abandon theaters (bad video and sound quality, bad experiences due to theater owners not enforcing any rules, insane ticket and concession prices etc.) and try to change that side of the business.

I'm not anti-theater or anti-creator but I dislike the arrogance displayed by some of these directors and actors. They think this pandemic should not affect them one bit. Studios should delay movies until they can net the directors and stars extra millions on top of the millions they got upfront or the masses should cram into theaters during a pandemic.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The one thing Disney did well in regards to their movies was to split them. They announced some for Disney+ and some still for theaters. Raya and the Last Dragon is for both. Marvel is under the Disney umbrella and they made zero changes in regards to moving any of next year's movies to Disney+ as all of their movies will still be headed to theaters (that might change for Black Widow but we'll see). What Warner Brothers did was to put all movies, including those scheduled for theaters to HBO Max without consulting any of the filmmakers.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

The one thing Disney did well in regards to their movies was to split them. They announced some for Disney+ and some still for theaters. Raya and the Last Dragon is for both. Marvel is under the Disney umbrella and they made zero changes in regards to moving any of next year's movies to Disney+ as all of their movies will still be headed to theaters (that might change for Black Widow but we'll see). What Warner Brothers did was to put all movies, including those scheduled for theaters to HBO Max without consulting any of the filmmakers.

Right now it's likely that Black Widow will be the first big movie to hit theaters next year. Ghostbusters, Morbius and Bond are scheduled for March-April but Sony and MGM seem to be very hesitant about being the first ones out of the gate so it all comes down to how Black Widow performs in May. If it does great then I think Warner might rethink their streaming plan but if it seriously under-performs then Warner will stay the course and everybody else will have to come up with a new plan.

 

[TheVileOne]

Right now it's likely that Black Widow will be the first big movie to hit theaters next year. Ghostbusters, Morbius and Bond are scheduled for March-April but Sony and MGM seem to be very hesitant about being the first ones out of the gate so it all comes down to how Black Widow performs in May. If it does great then I think Warner might rethink their streaming plan but if it seriously under-performs then Warner will stay the course and everybody else will have to come up with a new plan.

I want to see all these movies in theaters but that's also a very optimistic prediction.

 

[kguillou]

@kguillou

Didn't know there was a thread, thanks for tagging me.

Very curious to see what will happen with this theaters vs streaming situation. Personally I think that theaters will be decimated this year because it will take longer than many think to get the pandemic under control, even with vaccines. But I also don't think they'll be gone forever. 2022 will probably start a slow but steady comeback for theaters.

I'm mixed on AT&T's decision to release Warner's 2021 slate simultaneously in theaters and streaming. On the one hand, I think it's the right call in 2021. As I mentioned before, I believe it's way too optimistic to think that movie-going will return to more or less normal by mid-year (Black Widow will either prove me right or wrong) so a simultaneous release on two different platforms might actually make more money than putting a movie in theaters only.

The concerns of directors (and actors) seem to be two-fold. Firstly, they think AT&T's plan will screw them out of residuals because an added streaming option will cut down box office revenue. If they think that theater attendance will return to normal relatively soon then I can understand the argument but again I think they're being very optimistic. I don't think the added option of streaming will make a big impact on the box office in 2021. Even if streaming isn't an option then a lot of people would still skip theaters and these movies would lose money. I'm sure Villeneuve and others would be happy if Warner (and other studios) delayed their movies another year if theaters don't recover fast enough but in that case studios would have to stop making new content until they can unload the stuff they already have finished. Doesn't make sense to go into production on new projects when you have a huge backlog that is costing you money to sit on every month. Add in shareholders who are getting antsy and another year-long delay just isn't very feasible.

Secondly, there's this argument that if AT&T puts these movies on streaming then theaters will die forever. Basically, we will become so accustomed to this model that we'll never want to go back to theaters. On the one hand, I understand the concern that streaming won't be able to support big tent-poles like box office revenue can. But I don't think one year's worth of movies going to streaming will necessarily do that. And if people really don't want to go back to cinemas then maybe theaters don't deserve to survive. Instead of Nolan and Villeneuve lecturing moviegoers, they should perhaps reflect on why many are so quick to abandon theaters (bad video and sound quality, bad experiences due to theater owners not enforcing any rules, insane ticket and concession prices etc.) and try to change that side of the business.

I'm not anti-theater or anti-creator but I dislike the arrogance displayed by some of these directors and actors. They think this pandemic should not affect them one bit. Studios should delay movies until they can net the directors and stars extra millions on top of the millions they got upfront or the masses should cram into theaters during a pandemic.

Yes. Even though I absolutely feel where these directors are coming from and I agree WB’s approach was shady but there needs to be an acknowledgment that we are still in a pandemic and people do not feel safe going to the theater and that at the end of the day is the primary reason the theater industry is in trouble.

I get it, you made these movies to be seen in theater. Nolan made Tenet to be seen in theater, it went to theater and look what happened. It will be a miracle if Black Widow makes $500 million next May, its not going to hit close to a billion for surs.