NYPD Round Up Mentally Ill Before They Commit Crimes

[Hotwire]

Yeah, it really depends why people are being court ordered medication.

Maybe someone like Chris Brown should be forced to take zoloft for something he did years ago. Maybe a person a schizophrenic had good reason to fight someone at a baseball game and shouldn't be forced to take a drug for the rest of their lives.

It's really fall into subjective and less clear cut areas sometimes.

A recent study determined that half of all inmates suffer from mental illness.

Are we prepared as a society to ignore a million Americans constitutional rights and drag these people out of their homes and force them into an institution whenever the police see fit regardless if these people were actively causing any trouble.

It's a slippery slope when 20% of Americans are on a psychiatric drug.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/11/17/one-in-five-american-adults-takes-psychiatric-drugs/

Again, you're taking the Orwellian stance. You know nothing about why these people were ordered onto medication and yet, you seem to assume it was just because the court thought it was a good idea.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Exactly. I see no reason to assume Orwellianism at this point.

How does a judge determine someone's actions were based on psychosis or mental illness?

Do they always use a respected doctors opinion before issuing court ordered medication?

Isn't it a little Orwellian or even unconstitutional to round up people who weren't harming anyone or themselves simply because horrible things two other, unrelated people did?

 

[ThePhantasm]

How does a judge determine someone's actions were based on psychosis or mental illness?

Is it not because lot of times it is because the person in question, along with their lawyer, make that their case in order for more lenient sentencing?

 

[Victarion]

Isn't it a little Orwellian or even unconstitutional to round up people who weren't harming anyone or themselves simply because horrible things two other, unrelated people did?

It would be, if the people were not violating a court order given to keep them from harming themselves or others.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Again, you're taking the Orwellian stance. You know nothing about why these people were ordered onto medication and yet, you seem to assume it was just because the court thought it was a good idea.

No one around here knows whether all these people were legitimately court ordered to medicate and their actions were proven to have a 100% relation to an active mental illness which also reasonably justifies a life-time of monitored drugging.

Yet you assume all this in order to defend the actions of the NYPD.

I guess you're fine with the NYPD knocking down your door down in the middle of the night because a computer says you missed your last refill.

No strange or unruly behavior needed.

These aren't probation violators. They should be treated like any free American until they bring attention to themselves. Not rounded up and force injected like animals based on the crazed actions of a couple other, unrelated people.

 

[Hotwire]

How does a judge determine someone's actions were based on psychosis or mental illness?

Do they always use a respected doctors opinion before issuing court ordered medication?

Isn't it a little Orwellian or even unconstitutional to round up people who weren't harming anyone or themselves simply because horrible things two other, unrelated people did?

Well, there's usually a trial after the person in question has done something harmful. In those trails, respected doctors are often called upon to offer their testimony in regard to the person in question. Then, once a verdict is handed down, a sentence is issued. In some cases, that's medication. Also, just because a person stops hurting other people doesn't mean their sentence is automatically ended. If that were the case, we would let murderers out of prison as soon as they stopped killing people.

Again, you are still taking the stance that the courts are doing this to completely innocent people who have done nothing to warrant being court ordered to take medication.

 

[Victarion]

At this point, I have no reason to question the NYPD.

 

[Hotwire]

No one around here knows whether all these people were legitimately court ordered to medicate and their actions were proven to have a 100% relation to an active mental illness which also reasonably justifies a life-time of monitored drugging.

Yet you assume all this in order to defend the actions of the NYPD.

I guess you're fine with the NYPD knocking down your door down in the middle of the night because a computer says you missed your last refill.

No strange or unruly behavior needed.

These aren't probation violators. They should be treated like any free American until they bring attention to themselves. Not rounded up and force injected like animals based on the crazed actions of a couple other, unrelated people.

Actually, they are pretty much the same as a probation violator. Also, if I break the law, I would have to expect that at some point, the cops could come knocking down my door.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Is it not because lot of times it is because the person in question, along with their lawyer, make that their case in order for more lenient sentencing?

Bingo.

So is it fair to round up orderly people based on some tactical lawyer defense that resulted in court ordered medication rather than based on a psychiatrist's studied recommendation to the judge that results in court ordered medication?

THe judge court ordered these people because the lawyer wanted shorter sentences, not because the person was convicted for crimes of insanity. It never needs to be proven in court that these are crimes of insanity.

It's actually a very hard thing to prove.

So these people could be dragged from their homes and injected with drugs because a lawyer told them they should bring up mental illness to shorten a sentence in the distant past, not because they really needed medication to be civil.

 

[Hotwire]

Bingo.

So is it fair to round up orderly people based on some tactical lawyer defense that resulted in court ordered medication rather than based on a psychiatrist's studied recommendation to the judge that results in court ordered medication?

THe judge court ordered these people because the lawyer wanted shorter sentences, not because the person was convicted for crimes of insanity. It never needs to be proven in court that these are crimes of insanity.

It's actually a very hard thing to prove.

So these people could be dragged from their homes and injected with drugs because a lawyer told them they should bring up mental illness to shorten a sentence in the distant past, not because they really needed medication to be civil.

So, the lawyers and their clients defraud the system by claiming a nonexistent mental illness and then, when the cops come to enforce the warrant because they don't show up for their medication, they're suddenly an innocent victim who never did anything wrong.

 

[ThePhantasm]

So, the lawyers and their clients defraud the system by claiming a nonexistent mental illness and then, when the cops come to enforce the warrant because they don't show up for their medication, they're suddenly an innocent victim who never did anything wrong.

Exactly.

The fact still remains that a crime was committed. The state takes preventative measures to ensure the crime isn't repeated. Said measures might be imprisonment. For those who claim mental illness, the measures might mean medication.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So, the lawyers and their clients defraud the system by claiming a nonexistent mental illness and then, when the cops come to enforce the warrant because they don't show up for their medication, they're suddenly an innocent victim who never did anything wrong.

Well then punish them for "defrauding" the system in a way that doesn't trample their constitutional rights.

Discover their crime was not related to mental illness and then punishing them for perjury. But the police forcing their way into people's homes and dragging them away simply because someone else committed a crime is not justice.

If these people aren't hurting anyone why should they be closely studied, dragged out of their homes, and injected? Because of what a couple people did on the other side of the city? Because they used a technicality to avoid a harsher sentence? That would be abuse of the justice system to treat these people like that based on those things.

 

[Victarion]

Well then punish them for "defrauding" the system in a way that doesn't trample their constitutional rights.

Discover their crime was not related to mental illness and then punishing them for perjury. But the police forcing their way into people's homes and dragging them away simply because someone else committed a crime is not justice.

If these people aren't hurting anyone why should they be closely studied, dragged out of their homes, and injected? Because of what a couple people did on the other side of the city? Because they used a technicality to avoid a harsher sentence? That would be abuse of the justice system to treat these people like that based on those things.

If these people are on medication for a psychiatric problem, there is a good chance they would have a higher propensity to harm themselves or someone else.

 

[Hotwire]

Well then punish them for "defrauding" the system in a way that doesn't trample their constitutional rights.

Discover their crime was not related to mental illness and then punishing them for perjury. But the police forcing their way into people's homes and dragging them away simply because someone else committed a crime is not justice.

If these people aren't hurting anyone why should they be closely studied, dragged out of their homes, and injected? Because of what a couple people did on the other side of the city? Because they used a technicality to avoid a harsher sentence? That would be abuse of the justice system to treat these people like that based on those things.

If they aren't hurting anyone, they wouldn't have found themselves in court in the first place. You don't get to defraud the system and then cry foul when they come after you for what you claim you did.

 

[Baramos]

You're being a bit unreasonable, or pointing to the wrong thing. You seem to have issue with the fact that they were court-ordered to take medication or psychiatric treatments in the first place, the system itself. It makes little sense to call out the NYPD for actually getting around to enforcing the law they're supposed to enforcing.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Exactly.

The fact still remains that a crime was committed. The state takes preventative measures to ensure the crime isn't repeated. Said measures might be imprisonment. For those who claim mental illness, the measures might mean medication.

I depends on the crime.

If you murdered someone and in order to get released from a prison hospital you agreed to stay on your meds then that would warrant strict life long medication enforcement.

If you assaulted someone for insulting your girlfriend and your lawyer advised you to use your bipolar disorder for your defense:

A) You're not a trained psychiatrist and can't be blamed for misdiagnosing the cause of the assault.

B) Shouldn't be punished indefinitely with draconian enforcement for using a technicality that might helped you avoid prison rape.

It was reasonable and every lawyer uses loopholes if they can find them to protect their client. It's the justice systems responsibility to close loopholes in fair and rational ways. Not resort to indirectly punishing people who may or may not have tried to exploit the system with unprompted round ups and forced hospital stays for everyone who's not up to date on their court ordered medication. Let them show at least a little mental instability before you resort to invading their homes and dragging them away. They're not hurting or bothering anyone.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If these people are on medication for a psychiatric problem, there is a good chance they would have a higher propensity to harm themselves or someone else.

Anyone with psychiatric problems could be potentially destructive and harmful. Why not break down all their doors and drag them to psych wards?

Half of all inmates are mentally ill. She would force them all to stay on meds for the rest of their lives.

What about sociopaths who have exhibited violence? Should we find medication and force them to take it for the rest of their lives? All it takes is a quick brain scan of every convict then we can do it.

 

[Baramos]

Your argument hinges on it being based around extreme behavior which is all well and good but let's assume they have caught all the people forced to take medication for violent behavior and rape, should they never move onto people forced to take medication for some other less dangerous illness?

I suppose it is profiling which is wrong but going after people with warrants is still a function of the police department. I agree it makes more sense to go after violent people first (and this would include non-mentally ill murderers, a rather large amount of people as well), though. But someone who had assaulted their girlfriend would come under the heading of "violent" to me.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You're being a bit unreasonable, or pointing to the wrong thing. You seem to have issue with the fact that they were court-ordered to take medication or psychiatric treatments in the first place, the system itself. It makes little sense to call out the NYPD for actually getting around to enforcing the law they're supposed to enforcing.

I take issue with courts having no proof a crime is motivated by inanity before requiring people to stay on meds their whole lives and I take issue with the NYPD for responding the way they did despite the system being broken.

How many of these people deserved to be treated as seriously as the subway murderers?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Your argument hinges on it being based around extreme behavior which is all well and good but let's assume they have caught all the people forced to take medication for violent behavior and rape, should they never move onto people forced to take medication for some other less dangerous illness?

I suppose it is profiling which is wrong but going after people with warrants is still a function of the police department. I agree it makes more sense to go after violent people first (and this would include non-mentally ill murderers, a rather large amount of people as well), though. But someone who had assaulted their girlfriend would come under the heading of "violent" to me.

I think we should separate people who are being forcibly medicated for past murder or past rape and people who are being forcibly medicated for non-murder and non-rape crimes.

The latter should never be treated under the assumption that they will do the crimes of the former.