Comics Off-the-Rack - Your first Issues!

[KaineMorrison]

They may have been doing bad, but The Clone Saga was consistently selling out...
I hate the people that act like Marvel going Bankrupt is because of that single Storyline...
I grew up with reading Peter Parker and I knew the characters and watched everything.
When Ben came back, it was very enjoyable. And as someone who didn't really know all the stories "in's-and-out's" I was putting the pieces of the past together through flashbacks and back issues.
The Jean DeWolfe Annual from when Ben was in the suit was kinda huge, because I didn't really know when Ben was first created and so, with Pete having the Symbiote I realized it was a long time before Venom was created.
It made me feel like an Anthropologist, putting together all of these clues and hints and forming a huge multi-layered backstory.

People say that the writers didn't care about continuity back then, but they are wrong, everything was built out of something.
Unlike today where these "unrevealed" stories just all of a sudden happen... Look at the upcoming Spider-Man Dr. Ock team-up... there is and never was any basis for that.
All I can think of when this was solicited is that they will be either:
- Merged or
- Otto will have a new body and still be an "Anti-Hero"

 

[Spider-Gnome]

back then, Larsen came onto the Spidey scene right after MacFarlane left... seeing how Todd gave Spidey that spidery look and feel to him, Larsen, I felt, took Spidey's poses and anatomical positionings a bit on the extremely painful-looking side, but I still liked it... but when I look at Erik's work back then NOW, it just seems to turn me off with the physical impossibility of his poses...

as for Bags, I will ALWAYS enjoy his work... he was on for a pretty long stretch, honing those Spidey skills, before heading on over to his crowning Spidey achievement with the USM book... too bad Marvel's animation department couldn't or wouldn't use the comic as the basis for the wretched animated series that they have on now...

Funny thing is I was never really a Bags fan. I loved when McFarlane came aboard. His style was fresh and new at the time. When Larsen came on, it seem to be an imitation of McFarlane. But soon, I saw it for a style of its own, and I liked it. Then when Bags came on, it felt like a further imitation of Larsen imitating McFarlane. So, it felt a bit blander, for lack of a better term.

I do like his work better on Ultimate than his work on Amazing.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

As far as the Clone Saga, I was actually really into it at the time. A new issue every week. The whole mystery and ties to the 70's storyline. It was only when they said the Pete I had followed for the past 20 years was a clone that I turned on it. That plus they stretched it out with all the other stuff.

 

[Themanofbat]

In regards to the Clone Saga, like Gnome says... everything was fine up until the reveal... after that, we had about 4 months of consistent Ben Reilly Spider-Man stories, and then there was the back'n forth, back'n forth...

When Jurgens left Sensational after only six issues, there was clearly a sentiment that Ben wasn't going to last, because they gave him that book because of the fresh begining and the creation of new cast members... but they still went back'n forth, back'n forth... after a while, I just didn't care... and once the "quick fix" Norman reveal came out, I basically had enough and stopped buying Spider-Man for about 4 years...

 

[KaineMorrison]

What Back and Forth though?
Pete was thrown into doubt early on.
Ben was then confirmed to be the Real one.
The Skeleton only threw into doubt Peter's "Line of Succession" as to when he was Clones.
Then Norman came back and everything went back to Status Quo...

 

[runawayboulder]

The back and forth was the removal of Peter, MJ and their friends to bring them back just a few months later. Plus there were a lot of uncertainty of the roles for Gaunt, The Traveller and the Scriers. A lot of things were changed about where they were going with them and a lot of things were not answered. The Onslaught crossover pushed things back even further.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

... and once the "quick fix" Norman reveal came out, I basically had enough and stopped buying Spider-Man for about 4 years...

I actually liked the Osborn reveal. Since he basically died when I came on board, this was a chance to experience Norman tales first hand! I know that's not a popular opinion, but hey, Norman's my favorite Spidey villain!

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

in regards to the Clone Saga, I just felt overwhelmed by so many interlocking titles coming out per week and the way they were all weaving in and out of one another... it got to the point that the stories didn't follow and flow into the right title properly, because of the faulty release scheduling, and it all wound up being allover the place and just one huge clusterf**k of a mess...

and when that 'reveal' that the Peter that we knew for the last 20 years was not the real deal, that REALLY stunned me and pissed me off... the reveal that the real Peter was dead and had been pitched down that smokestack years earlier was just unbelievable and too much to take, but I kept on with it all...

it was a relief when the whole thing finally ended with the return of Norman... whether you thought it was a proper solution or not, for ME, I was just glad the whole thing was over with... it all started with the 'mystery man', who turned out to be the clone coming back and it all ended with Norman returning... a three year mess that never should have happened... it may have started on the right path, but it swerved somewhere down the road and ended up with so many editors and writers making it up as they went along after a certain point when they realized that they had f**ked up on so many different points... basically, a plan that went all wrong and evolved into a massive and uncoordinated mess that left a bad taste in a lot of reader's mouths, mine included...

and even AFTER it all, there were quite a few stories that really went OTT, that involved Norman, such as Identity Crisis, Gathering of Five and a few others that I've just put out of my head and behind me... and one of the BIGGEST things that pissed me off back then was the baby May storyline, which wound up being tied to the death of Aunt May story... and what do they do?... interconnect those two plots together and ruined a beautiful farewell to Aunt May by the use a lame plot revelation of a death that never really happened...

storyline-wise, those were some bad times, iMho...

 

[Picard Sisko]

What did you think of the original clone Saga from the 70s?

 

[KaineMorrison]

What did you think of the original clone Saga from the 70s?

I loved it!

 

[Themanofbat]

It was great and unique...

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

for the stories back then in the 70's, it was different, but I liked it, though I never imagined back then that it would ever be brought back up to the extent that it was in the 90's...

 

[runawayboulder]

It's a shame that the debacle of a sequel tainted the original story. Marvel was too afraid to quickly pull out of something they knew was ultimately going to fail.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

... and one of the BIGGEST things that pissed me off back then was the baby May storyline, which wound up being tied to the death of Aunt May story... and what do they do?... interconnect those two plots together and ruined a beautiful farewell to Aunt May by the use a lame plot revelation of a death that never really happened...

storyline-wise, those were some bad times, iMho...

Ugg, you are so right. First, I was real excited by the baby plotline, as I could relate because around the time of Revelations, I was expecting my first born. Of course, Marvel got cold feet. And then they get your hopes up that Pete would find baby May, only to find Aunt May and totally ruin issue 400 (which was very touching and moving) with a stupid retcon.

What did you think of the original clone Saga from the 70s?

It was great! I loved the Jackal. Gwen's death was the second issue of Amazing I ever got and it was wild that Gwen was back. I was already pulling for Pete and MJ at that point (yup, shipping from way back when!) so I was wondering about the outcome.

So, when they brought up the story line again in the 90's, at first I thought cool! little did I know...

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

Ugg, you are so right. First, I was real excited by the baby plotline, as I could relate because around the time of Revelations, I was expecting my first born. Of course, Marvel got cold feet. And then they get your hopes up that Pete would find baby May, only to find Aunt May and totally ruin issue 400 (which was very touching and moving) with a stupid retcon.



It was great! I loved the Jackal. Gwen's death was the second issue of Amazing I ever got and it was wild that Gwen was back. I was already pulling for Pete and MJ at that point (yup, shipping from way back when!) so I was wondering about the outcome.

So, when they brought up the story line again in the 90's, at first I thought cool! little did I know...

still never forgot those lead-in issues where the 'mystery man' was on his way to New York, and it finally led to that face-to-face confrontation on that hospital roof between Pete and Ben... wow, THAT threw me and was a WTF moment...

and I also remember one bit of follow-up to the original clone saga of ASM #146-149 that occurred about 20 issues later or so, around ASM #169 where, if I remember correctly, Jonah had received photos of Spidey disposing of the body of 'Peter Parker' down the smokestack... the photos being mailed to Jonah anonymously by Harry Osborn, I think... or was it Bart Hamilton?... it's been so long that I can't remember precisely who it was...

 

[Picard Sisko]

So I have a question. TASM volume 1 ends with Ben Reilly, right? Then the relaunch started and did a "reboot?"

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

wrong... that was TASM #441 with Peter Parker all the way.. and then the vol 2 series began with a new #1 with him in it, as well... it was just a relaunch, not really a reboot...

Ben Reilly bought it in Peter Parker Spider-Man #75...

 

[Picard Sisko]

Oh okay, I wasn't sure. I sort of read a large number of TASM comics from the late 90s with only Ben Reilly, and read that Peter moved away with MJ to retire. Must have gotten series mixed up, so thanks for clarifying!

Does "Spider-Man: Chapter One" count as canon?

 

[KaineMorrison]

Oh okay, I wasn't sure. I sort of read a large number of TASM comics from the late 90s with only Ben Reilly, and read that Peter moved away with MJ to retire. Must have gotten series mixed up, so thanks for clarifying!

Does "Spider-Man: Chapter One" count as canon?

Unfortunately yes, but also, thank goddess no!


When Mackie was writing, yes, but it's been completely ignored once JMS came aboard...

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

Oh okay, I wasn't sure. I sort of read a large number of TASM comics from the late 90s with only Ben Reilly, and read that Peter moved away with MJ to retire. Must have gotten series mixed up, so thanks for clarifying!

Does "Spider-Man: Chapter One" count as canon?

that whole bit of nonsense was pretty much ignored and forgotten about in a rather short amount of time, surprisingly...

and I believe Pete and MJ moved out west during the Lost Years miniseries...

 

[Picard Sisko]

The Lost Years miniseries? Never heard of it actually. Is that worth getting into?

 

[Themanofbat]

They moved to Portland at the end of Spectacular #229... Ben takes over as new Spider-Man... We next see Peter & MJ in the Spider-Man: Final Adventure mini series...

 

[Picard Sisko]

When does Peter return as Spider-Man exactly?

 

[KaineMorrison]

Spectacular Spider-Man 226 is when Pete and MJ left.

Lost Years is great!
If you aren't able to get the Trade PaperBack, make sure you get all 4 issues.
#'s 0,1,2,3.

Peter returns in Peter Parker: Spider-Man 75.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Spectacular Spider-Man 226 is when Pete and MJ left.

Lost Years is great!
If you aren't able to get the Trade PaperBack, make sure you get all 4 issues.
#'s 0,1,2,3.

Peter returns in Peter Parker: Spider-Man 75.

I'm actually writing all of this down, thanks!