Pre E3 Splinter Cell images...

[WhatsHisFace]

SplinterCell is awesome. I need to pick up Choas Theory one day.

 

[imdaly]

Could be wrong, but I'm betting this game wouldn't run on a ....sigh...."Wii".

Cause isn't the Wii supposed to be still wiiker than the first XBOX?

 

[Phaser]

First of all, the actual definition of a "spy" for all you tools out there:

spy [spī]
noun (plural spies)
1. somebody employed to obtain secret information: an employee of a government who seeks secret information in or from another country, especially about military matters
2. employee who obtains information about rivals: an employee of a company who seeks secret information about rival organizations
3. secret observer of others: a watcher of other people in secret
4. act of spy: an instance of acting as a spy

Yeah, I know hired by the government but Im just saying spying isnt just sneaking around CIA HQs, if you do that in real life (anything in SC and MGS) you wont make it past five minutes.

Spies rarely, if ever, "sneak around". And you should have listened to me when I told you to learn what a spy actually is. Goes to show you're too ****ing dumb to even open a dictionary for such a common word.

Hitman is more realistic as far as interaction goes, deception, using disguises to gain trust and info sounds more spy than walk through dark corridors and hack a computer.

Hitman is an assassin. His sole purpose is to kill, not extract sensitive information. Deception and disguise are simply one of his means to get to his target. But as a hired killer, his goals are completely different from that of spies.

In real life spys dont shoot out light or knock on walls; again you are being an idiot, you can call it anything to a certain extent but at its core it is just a sneaking game with spying and espinage thrown in to make it cooler add a story to it.

The only element the Splinter Cell series shares with real-life spying espionage is the considerable focus on extracting sensitive intelligence. The whole "Double Agent" element is also another similiarity. Other than that, a Splinter Cell as shown in the game is as much "real life spy" as James Bond. For crying out loud, read my previous posts you dumbass.

Go watch Spy Game to get an idea of what real-life spies are like. But don't put it high up your list of priorities, chimpy...you've got a brain to find and desperately need some basic nursery schooling.

 

[Liquid Snake]

First of all, the actual definition of a "spy" for all you tools out there:

spy [spī]
noun (plural spies)
1. somebody employed to obtain secret information: an employee of a government who seeks secret information in or from another country, especially about military matters
2. employee who obtains information about rivals: an employee of a company who seeks secret information about rival organizations
3. secret observer of others: a watcher of other people in secret
4. act of spy: an instance of acting as a spy



Spies rarely, if ever, "sneak around". And you should have listened to me when I told you to learn what a spy actually is. Goes to show you're too ****ing dumb to even open a dictionary for such a common word.



Hitman is an assassin. His sole purpose is to kill, not extract sensitive information. Deception and disguise are simply one of his means to get to his target. But as a hired killer, his goals are completely different from that of spies.



The only element the Splinter Cell series shares with real-life spying espionage is the considerable focus on extracting sensitive intelligence. The whole "Double Agent" element is also another similiarity. Other than that, a Splinter Cell as shown in the game is as much "real life spy" as James Bond. For crying out loud, read my previous posts you dumbass.

Go watch Spy Game to get an idea of what real-life spies are like. But don't put it high up your list of priorities, chimpy...you've got a brain to find and desperately need some basic nursery schooling.

I just ****ing agreed with you idiot. The only this "spy" in the game is the story element s and few other things but as far as hitman, his mission might be to kill someone, yeah he is an assasin but he uses techniques ehich a spy would use. (In MGS3 snake does use disguise to get info)

 

[WhatsHisFace]

Snake's the first person whose thoughts are too large for his mind.

 

[lars573]

The problem with portraying realistic spies in a game is that they would be pretty boring games.

Let's see.
Mission 1
Get plans for new missile out of company building it.
phase 1- find a list of who workd there and what they are like.
phase 2- make a list of potential recruits.
phase 3- feel them all out and see who will steal what you need.
phase 4- get your operatives information from the dead drop.
phase 5- get the information to your masters.

rinse repeat until the operative is caught tried and executed for being a spy or you get all the info.

Exciting huh?

 

[Phaser]

I just ****ing agreed with you idiot. The only this "spy" in the game is the story elements and few other things...

And I had already implied that here in this post. I was only reiterating what I said earlier, you moron.

And no, you DIDN'T agree with me:

In real life spys dont shoot out light or knock on walls; again you are being an idiot...

...because you somehow seemed to think I meant real life spies "knock on walls and shoot out lights", which was not at all what I said. I guess calling someone an "idiot" is your own asinine way of agreeing with someone, eh?

but as far as hitman, his mission might be to kill someone, yeah he is an assasin but he uses techniques ehich a spy would use.

That still doesn't make him a spy, as such techniques are not exclusive to spies and are known to be used by assassins as well. Which consequently means the Hitman games fail to qualify as "spy" games in any way whatsoever.

(In MGS3 snake does use disguise to get info)

So does Cloud in Final Fantasy VII when he dresses up like a girl. Oh oh, final fntasy is teh spy!11!!

 

[Horrorfan]

Let me get this straight......a guy who likes metal gear, which involves a vampire and a guy using a cardboard box for a disguise, is slamming splinter cell for not being realistic?

 

[lars573]

So does Cloud in Final Fantasy VII when he dresses up like a girl. Oh oh, final fntasy is teh spy!11!!

More like reveals her true self.

 

[Indiglo]

SplinterCell is awesome. I need to pick up Choas Theory one day.

I hope you understand SC1&2 = about a 7.0 and SC Chaos Theory is probably a 10.5

 

[Phaser]

The problem with portraying realistic spies in a game is that they would be pretty boring games.

Let's see.
Mission 1
Get plans for new missile out of company building it.
phase 1- find a list of who workd there and what they are like.
phase 2- make a list of potential recruits.
phase 3- feel them all out and see who will steal what you need.
phase 4- get your operatives information from the dead drop.
phase 5- get the information to your masters.

rinse repeat until the operative is caught tried and executed for being a spy or you get all the info.

Exciting huh?

That's just a basic laundry list of what spies have to deal with. You forgot all about things like:

-detective work such as gathering intel or researching information
-soliciting information from assets
-using others to do your dirty work
-engaging in surveillance utilizing more grounded and realistic techno-wizardry
-creative assassinations by means of unsuspecting ways (traps, rig the victim's place with drugs and make it look like suicide or a case of OD, bust his car's brakes etc)
-manipulating, blackmailing and backstabbing people
-shaking off those who risk blowing your cover using a variety of different methods

Granted, real-life spies see a lot less action than we are led to believe by these so called "spy movies", but the focus of such a game should never be on the action, but rather an open-ended and self-aware environment that gives players a chance to get resourceful and inventive enough to enact the cunning and trickery of a real-life spy as well as face the dangers associated with the profession. It could be a thrill unlike any other.

 

[Phaser]

Let me get this straight......a guy who likes metal gear, which involves a vampire and a guy using a cardboard box for a disguise, is slamming splinter cell for not being realistic?

You've only just begun to know the abomination that is Liquid Snake.

 

[Indiglo]

Phaser, were you around when he made, like, 6 mgs3 threads a day for a straight month?

 

[Phaser]

Phaser, were you around when he made, like, 6 mgs3 threads a day for a straight month?

How can I forget? His stupid antics actually made me dislike MGS, temporarily of course.

 

[Liquid Snake]

First of all I am not bashing anyone for or not being realistic. The arguement started when lars said something like SC is teh real spy game and MGS3 is not, and I replied back saying non of them are teh real spy games, if anything Hitman uses more spy than either.

 

[Liquid Snake]

Let me get this straight......a guy who likes metal gear, which involves a vampire and a guy using a cardboard box for a disguise, is slamming splinter cell for not being realistic?

No Not at all if you have half a brain you'd know I was puting MGS/SC vs Hitman, and that is the oldest ****ing comeback ever, MGS has all that thats why its better than watching cnn.

 

[Horrorfan]

No Not at all if you have half a brain you'd know I was puting MGS/SC vs Hitman, and that is the oldest ****ing comeback ever, MGS has all that thats why its better than watching cnn.

Can you translate that into 'coherant' for me?

 

[Liquid Snake]

Can you translate that into 'coherant' for me?

Everyone knows MGS is not as realistic blah blah blah, are you seriously that ******ed? I never said MGS is more realistic; realisitic doesnt nessecerily mean better so whatever

 

[Phaser]

First of all I am not bashing anyone for or not being realistic. The arguement started when lars said something like SC is teh real spy game and MGS3 is not, and I replied back saying non of them are teh real spy games, if anything Hitman uses more spy than either.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Horrorfan]

Everyone knows MGS is not as realistic blah blah blah, are you seriously that ******ed? I never said MGS is more realistic; realisitic doesnt nessecerily mean better so whatever

I'm sorry, I'm not fluent in 'bull****'

 

[lars573]

That's just a basic laundry list of what spies have to deal with. You forgot all about things like:

-detective work such as gathering intel or researching information
-soliciting information from assets
-using others to do your dirty work
-engaging in surveillance utilizing more grounded and realistic techno-wizardry
-creative assassinations by means of unsuspecting ways (traps, rig the victim's place with drugs and make it look like suicide or a case of OD, bust his car's brakes etc)
-manipulating, blackmailing and backstabbing people
-shaking off those who risk blowing your cover using a variety of different methods

Granted, real-life spies see a lot less action than we are led to believe by these so called "spy movies", but the focus of such a game should never be on the action, but rather an open-ended and self-aware environment that gives players a chance to get resourceful and inventive enough to enact the cunning and trickery of a real-life spy as well as face the dangers associated with the profession. It could be a thrill unlike any other.

Basic laundry list is all I was really going for, mostly to show that it could be dead boring. You could make a realistic (in terms of what's done) and engaging spy game. But it might not be comercially viable to do so. Remeber the game Republic that was supposed to be a political simulator of a formerly communist eastern european country? I never tried it but appearantly it was a piece of crap.

 

[Phaser]

Basic laundry list is all I was really going for, mostly to show that it could be dead boring.

Which is why to counter your point, I presented possibilities that could make the game a pure thrill to play.

You could make a realistic (in terms of what's done) and engaging spy game. But it might not be comercially viable to do so.

How so? It only seems like a more complex version of Hitman with very different objectives and a lot more freedom.

Remeber the game Republic that was supposed to be a political simulator of a formerly communist eastern european country? I never tried it but appearantly it was a piece of crap.

There's a big difference between living a virtual life as a spy and a political simulator, with the former being a much more exciting option. True, it might not have as much gunplay or direct stealth missions like people are used to, but rather a hybrid of RPG and adventure elements with a little of GTA and Deus Ex mixed in to boot.

Oh and Republic was a great game. I still play it from time to time. The only things that bogged down the game was a number of technical problems and a couple poorly defined game mechanics. Aside from that, it was an amazingly deep, complex and engrossing title. Very ambitious and very detailed. It is one of the most open-ended and underrated games I've ever played. It's a shame Elixir Studios won't be making a sequel that would have ironed out all the problems and showed everyone the true potential of the unique premise.

 

[Zenien]

Those are typical Ubi touched up screens, but I'm more interested in this game then I have ever been on any previous Splinter Cells.

 

[lars573]

How so? It only seems like a more complex version of Hitman with very different objectives and a lot more freedom.

Hitman has the "money shot" of killing someone in every mission. A spy game wouldn't have that kind of payoff most of the time. A realistic spy game could be great, but it would take one hell of a developer to do it right and make it fun. IMO Splinter Cell is a good hybrid of action and espionage. It's fun to play, if only for Micheal Ironsides vioce over. And gives a reasonable attempt at showing what being a covert operative is like.

There's a big difference between living a virtual life as a spy and a political simulator, with the former being a much more exciting option. True, it might not have as much gunplay or direct stealth missions like people are used to, but rather a hybrid of RPG and adventure elements with a little of GTA and Deus Ex mixed in to boot.

Oh and Republic was a great game. I still play it from time to time. The only things that bogged down the game was a number of technical problems and a couple poorly defined game mechanics. Aside from that, it was an amazingly deep, complex and engrossing title. Very ambitious and very detailed. It is one of the most open-ended and underrated games I've ever played. It's a shame Elixir Studios won't be making a sequel that would have ironed out all the problems and showed everyone the true potential of the unique premise.

Republic got a lot of bad reviews and crappy sales. But like I said I never tried it. I only used it to give an example of how a very different type of game like a spy-sim could go very wrong.

 

[Phaser]

Hitman has the "money shot" of killing someone in every mission. A spy game wouldn't have that kind of payoff most of the time.

No, the payoffs would be even better than killing someone in every mission. Like the feeling of being the ultimate badass when you play both sides and manipulate two of your enemies into killing each other, two birds with no stone. Or extracting sensitive intel from your target and framing him in the process lest he become a possible threat to you. Or effortlessly socializing your way into elite circles and charm them into leaking their most valuable secrets for you to use them as assets and perhaps even blackmail them with as a means of persuasion to work for you. All that sounds like the ultimate satisfaction to me.

A realistic spy game could be great, but it would take one hell of a developer to do it right and make it fun.

I agree that it would take a hell of a developer to get it right. The essentials to nailing such a game is open-ended gameplay with an excellent variety of missions and methods to achieve your objectives. It must not at all be restrictive (aside from crucial and realistic mission parameters) and push the player to be tactical, cunning and resourceful. Believe you me, such a game would make the very idea of firing a gun in a game obsolete.

IMO Splinter Cell is a good hybrid of action and espionage. It's fun to play, if only for Micheal Ironsides vioce over. And gives a reasonable attempt at showing what being a covert operative is like.

Yes, Splinter Cell is a good hybrid, but I want something that is all pure espionage.

Republic got a lot of bad reviews and crappy sales. But like I said I never tried it. I only used it to give an example of how a very different type of game like a spy-sim could go very wrong.

Republic got decent to good reviews. Sales were crappy because it's incredibly hard to get into the game at first since it has a ridiculously steep learning curve. It takeS you quite a while to figure out the game's mechanics, which most gamers don't have the patience for. Thankfully my persistence paid off and I was able to enjoy a game that gives you a chance to play as a true puppetmaster behind the curtain.