Prove Your Point: Is our country moving toward Socialism?

[Heretic]

Excel has a crystal ball that can predict what will happen.

Government is not usually one to surrender control over something once it has it...so exactly when do you look like a fool when the gvernment keeps taking ownership of things?? 5 years? 50 years? 200 years? What is your timeline. Our timeline is RIGHT NOW, these acts are leading in that direction, whereas your timeline involves some potential future event which may occur.

Then again...what do i know?? Im the one who predicted a month or so ago on these boards that the gvernment would unleash a flu virus to scare the populace which would be a first step toward tyranny...and that didnt happen...oh wait...yes it did.

 

[Arc-Light]

Excel has a crystal ball that can predict what will happen.

Government is not usually one to surrender control over something once it has it...so exactly when do you look like a fool when the gvernment keeps taking ownership of things?? 5 years? 50 years? 200 years? What is your timeline. Our timeline is RIGHT NOW, these acts are leading in that direction, whereas your timeline involves some potential future event which may occur.

Then again...what do i know?? Im the one who predicted a month or so ago on these boards that the gvernment would unleash a flu virus to scare the populace which would be a first step toward tyranny...and that didnt happen...oh wait...yes it did.

Look up paranoid delusions.......

 

[Excel]

Our timeline is RIGHT NOW, these acts are leading in that direction.

Are they? Is Obama telling us where to live? Is he saying where we can work? Is he saying who we can marry, how many children we can have? Is he truly redistributing the wealth, so we all actually make the same amount, like I make the same amount as Warren Buffet because my taxes are so much less than his? Is that what Obamas been up to the past few months? Enlighten me please because my memory is a bit hazy and clearly you hold the crystal ball about things when it comes to gov, I mean after all, YOU PREDICTED SWINE FLU!

Or is Obama simply doing what is nessecary to stop a mountain slide of events that threatened to destroy the u.s.? If what Obama is doing is socialist, than socialism must be looking pretty good right now because there aint another damn option I heard about yet that made even a fraction of sense.

 

[Carcharodon]

Are they? Is Obama telling us where to live? Is he saying where we can work? Is he saying who we can marry, how many children we can have? Is he truly redistributing the wealth, so we all actually make the same amount, like I make the same amount as Warren Buffet because my taxes are so much less than his? Is that what Obamas been up to the past few months? Enlighten me please because my memory is a bit hazy and clearly you hold the crystal ball about things when it comes to gov, I mean after all, YOU PREDICTED SWINE FLU!

Or is Obama simply doing what is nessecary to stop a mountain slide of events that threatened to destroy the u.s.? If what Obama is doing is socialist, than socialism must be looking pretty good right now because there aint another damn option I heard about yet that made even a fraction of sense.

You're part of the conspiracy.

 

[Kelly]

Are they? Is Obama telling us where to live? Is he saying where we can work? Is he saying who we can marry, how many children we can have? Is he truly redistributing the wealth, so we all actually make the same amount, like I make the same amount as Warren Buffet because my taxes are so much less than his? Is that what Obamas been up to the past few months? Enlighten me please because my memory is a bit hazy and clearly you hold the crystal ball about things when it comes to gov, I mean after all, YOU PREDICTED SWINE FLU!

Or is Obama simply doing what is nessecary to stop a mountain slide of events that threatened to destroy the u.s.? If what Obama is doing is socialist, than socialism must be looking pretty good right now because there aint another damn option I heard about yet that made even a fraction of sense.

The thing about Socialism, is it has never been a large change all at once......my question was not, are we a Socialist government now?

Prove to me that we are "not" moving toward a socialist government, instead of simply saying..."we arent' there yet..."

 

[Heretic]

Look up paranoid delusions.......

Um...its not paranoia when you're right....

Thats the thing about how the world views "conspiracy nuts" like me. Over the last few years we've said A, B, C, D, E, and F were going to happen, leading to a one world totalitarian government. A happened, and we were still crazy. B happened, C happened, D happened...and we're still crazy. I'm not a psychic...but I'm not paranoid either.

In fact, I would consider it reverse paranoia...almost a deathwish...to have people telling you what will happen...all of those things happen...and you still deny the truth of it in order to maintain weakness.

We arent going to be a Socialist or Totalitarian state next week...these things take years to come about...decades even. We are taking the next step now under Obama (we took a few under Bush as well). Depending on how gullible the people are will determine how fast the change takes place.

 

[Excel]

The thing about Socialism, is it has never been a large change all at once......my question was not, are we a Socialist government now?

Prove to me that we are "not" moving toward a socialist government, instead of simply saying..."we arent' there yet..."

Thats too vague. Aspects of our society might be such as the forementioned healthcare, but by and large...no. No at all.

 

[Matt]

brilliant argument.

 

[Scarlet spidey]

Thats too vague. Aspects of our society might be such as the forementioned healthcare, but by and large...no. No at all.

So, some aspects of our country are moving towards socialism, but others aren't. (yet) So, we aren't moving towards socialism?

 

[Paradyme]

That is one bill among many. Did you happen to see the one currently making the rounds giving the AG the right to ban whatever gun they decided should be off the street? Our current AG believes ALL guns should be banned...

I notice you didnt seem to notice all of the bills restricted the sale and ownership of guns...or the treaty with Mexico which restricts the reloading and cleaning of guns. Oh, we're not restricting guns...we're just banning ammo.

While I'm happy at the passing of the Pro-Gun/Credit Card Bill, that doesn't mean I drop my defense and trust the federal government will not take my weapons away or try to outright ban them.

I'm speaking in general and not to anyone specifically but you'd have to be pretty naive to think that the government, because they do one favorable thing, is now your most trusted best friend.

 

[Amero]

I believe our country is headed towards Socialism. It's ironic in that it appears to confirm Karl Marx's theory of history.

In his theory first capitalism, free market will lead to an economic collapse, which will lead to socialism as a reaction. In reality banking deregulations were signed into law by President Bush way back in 2001 which have now caused an economic collapse. As a result the government and the taxpayers bailed out many corporations. We now own a large chunk of these corporations. Shared ownership by the country is what we now have.

Universal Health Care is also socialism. Everybody is sharing in the costs equally and everybody is guranteed health care.

I for one believe it doesn't matter if it's socialism, capitalism, or whatever it is. All that matters is if it's going to work.

And to be a little clearer on the first post, socialism does not mean that nobody owns private property. It means we all share ownership over the planet or country's corporations and resources. I can still own this computer. What I can't own is half the country's farmland, or an oil reserve, a street etc.

 

[Kelly]

I believe our country is headed towards Socialism. It's ironic in that it appears to confirm Karl Marx's theory of history.

In his theory first capitalism, free market will lead to an economic collapse, which will lead to socialism as a reaction. In reality banking deregulations were signed into law by President Bush way back in 2001 which have now caused an economic collapse. As a result the government and the taxpayers bailed out many corporations. We now own a large chunk of these corporations. Shared ownership by the country is what we now have.

Universal Health Care is also socialism. Everybody is sharing in the costs equally and everybody is guranteed health care.

I for one believe it doesn't matter if it's socialism, capitalism, or whatever it is. All that matters is if it's going to work.

And to be a little clearer on the first post, socialism does not mean that nobody owns private property. It means we all share ownership over the planet or country's corporations and resources. I can still own this computer. What I can't own is half the country's farmland, or an oil reserve, a street etc.

You need to email Webster's Dictionary....

 

[Amero]

You need to email Webster's Dictionary....

When studying Political ideologies I was taken by that as well. I actually consider myself a socialist, and as soon as I heard the part about private property I thought, "whoa I'm not a socialist after all." My professor clarified for me during the classroom discussion, and through the assigned readings it was also clarified again. By private property they mean things like resources, water, farm land etc.

A good example of socialism is Iran's situation with the oil. The oil is owned by the government. The revenue pays for government spending, thus it is owned by the entire country.

Another example would be streets and roads in the United States, not counting privately owned highways where you pay a toll fee. We all share in the cost of building them and the right to use them freely when we choose.

 

[Paradoxium]

Owning a company or private property but having little to no control or discretion with it, is as meaningless as not owning it.

 

[Kelly]

When studying Political ideologies I was taken by that as well. I actually consider myself a socialist, and as soon as I heard the part about private property I thought, "whoa I'm not a socialist after all." My professor clarified for me during the classroom discussion, and through the assigned readings it was also clarified again. By private property they mean things like resources, water, farm land etc.

A good example of socialism is Iran's situation with the oil. The oil is owned by the government. The revenue pays for government spending, thus it is owned by the entire country.

Another example would be streets and roads in the United States, not counting privately owned highways where you pay a toll fee. We all share in the cost of building them and the right to use them freely when we choose.

Nice try Spider-bite......see ya.

 

[Excel]

Owning a company or private property but having little to no control or discretion with it, is as meaningless as not owning it.

This is how it is for every company in the U.S. now/how it will be soon?!?

 

[Paradoxium]

Would it not be comedic after GM and Chrysler is bankrupt and get run by the government - to of which they are mandated to make certain green cars - they do not make a profit and continuously lose money and go bankrupt again?

As far as I am concerned it boils down to economic thought, capitalism vs (economic) socialism (and it is scaled). Knowledge and lack-of are the foundations to which people form sociological and policy preferences.

In has been on the favor of socialism. And you might as well ask not if we are heading towards socialism, but what justifies it given what is known empirically and historically. As far as the two party system goes, both Republicans and Democrats' foundation is very socialized where action and policy is concerned.

I do recognize the many flaws of capitalism, including not being able to account for the predictable irrationality of people and asymmetry of information. This irrationality is what accounts for how pay does not reflect actual merit in some instances. Maybe because the said employee is hot or nepotism. I have no problem with merit-to-pay scales, it is just in many cases it does not always reflect that. The socialist has a problem with merit-to-pay scales in of itself; they are predicated on equal outcomes. And equal outcomes =/= equal opportunities. So for every one flaw there is in capitalism, there are much more with socialism.

As I said in the past, most normal people are well intended, but they underestimate the laws of unintended consequences. This law is what pushed me into being a capitalist

 

[Marx]

Excel has a crystal ball that can predict what will happen.

Government is not usually one to surrender control over something once it has it...so exactly when do you look like a fool when the gvernment keeps taking ownership of things?? 5 years? 50 years? 200 years? What is your timeline. Our timeline is RIGHT NOW, these acts are leading in that direction, whereas your timeline involves some potential future event which may occur.

Then again...what do i know?? Im the one who predicted a month or so ago on these boards that the gvernment would unleash a flu virus to scare the populace which would be a first step toward tyranny...and that didnt happen...oh wait...yes it did.

Oh. Dear. Lord.

:facepalm

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

...

I wonder if he keeps his pee in bottles.

Just in case the nuclear fallout happens this week.

I kid, I kid. But seriously...that's pretty paranoid.

 

[Bathead]

I would ask what proof Heretic has that the govt. is responsible for the Swine Flu.

 

[Carcharodon]

I would ask what proof Heretic has that the govt. is responsible for the Swine Flu.

His prediction came true. Duh.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Look up paranoid delusions.......

It's not paranoia when Obama has kept a lot of the Bush era powers. If he won't give those up, how can we say for certain that his measures of the government owning companies like GM are temporary.

 

[Carcharodon]

It's not paranoia when Obama has kept a lot of the Bush era powers. If he won't give those up, how can we say for certain that his measures of the government owning companies like GM are temporary.

I think he was referring to Heretic's little conspiracy theory about swine-flu...

 

[Arc-Light]

I think he was referring to Heretic's little conspiracy theory about swine-flu...

Bingo was his name-o...............

 

[Scarlet spidey]

I'm still waiting on SARS or Anthrax to come get me.