Public Domain and the battle of 2019

[Human Torch]

Frankly,as a writer I was never to eager to write existing characters.I want my own "sandbox" I suppose.But in the case of someone who's been around for ages like Superman for example,I don't think there's a whole heck of a lot I could do that hasn't been done at this point.So the prospect of creating stories with pre-existing universes never really appealed to me.

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

Just so we're clear, are some people here actually seriously arguing for perpetual copyright? I just want to make sure what degree of lunacy we're dealing with here.

I'm sure these people responsibly cash a check to Baum's estate after watching Oz The Great and Powerful, and won't watch The Mask of Zorro on TV without paying the original authors.

I mean, if we establish that we believe copyright is eternal and it's compensation exclusively monetary, we would be irresponsible and unethical, then, to enjoy "copyrighted" characters from the early 20th century without paying the "owners". I'm not calling up preclassic texts, here. You can still follow the bloodlines.

Hell, the descendants of Victor Hugo are still around and accounted for, and recently threw a big "non" at a planned "Les Miserables" sequel.

 

[Human Torch]

How is it "lunacy" to want your creations regulated after your death by people you trust and not to have everybody crap on them in any way they want,because they couldn't be bothered to come up with their own concept?

Condescending much?

 

[The_Mighty_Thor]

When you can't win the argument just insult the other side!

 

[The_Mighty_Thor]

I'm sure these people responsibly cash a check to Baum's estate after watching Oz The Great and Powerful, and won't watch The Mask of Zorro on TV without paying the original authors.

I mean, if we establish that we believe copyright is eternal and it's compensation exclusively monetary, we would be irresponsible and unethical, then, to enjoy "copyrighted" characters from the early 20th century without paying the "owners". I'm not calling up preclassic texts, here. You can still follow the bloodlines.

Hell, the descendants of Victor Hugo are still around and accounted for, and recently threw a big "non" at a planned "Les Miserables" sequel.

Actually a part of our movie ticket or cable bill should be going to them but it's the film makers who stole the material instead of coming up with something of their own as well as the theatres and broadcasters that should pay for the rights! They're the ones making money off someone else's property. That's how it works when there are copyrights in place and that's how it should work with the expired material since it shouldn't have expired.

 

[Thundercrack85]

How is it "lunacy" to want your creations regulated after your death by people you trust and not to have everybody crap on them in any way they want,because they couldn't be bothered to come up with their own concept?

Condescending much?

You do realize that all of these copyrighted characters are themselves derivative of preexisting, public domain characters right? Culture is built on top of culture.

It is lunacy to think you can have a monopoly on an idea after you die. Quite frankly, you should be grateful if anyone gives a damn about your work after you die.

Are you familiar with the concept of giving something back?

That said, given some of the responses, I am apparently not nearly being condescending enough. What a sorry state our culture is in.

At this rate, our culture will be remembered not just for its derivativeness, but for its greed and selfishness.

You think any of the characters you guys love so much would be around in their current form if the creators of their predecessors behaved in this fashion?

 

[Superwoman Prime]

^ Nope. As has been pointed out in this thread multiple times and conveniently ignored by a certain group: Disney used public domain characters.

 

[Human Torch]

I think having something derived/inspired by something is different than outright handing the house and car over to anyone and everyone and saying "have fun".

I mean,one of the best examples is Star Wars.Lucas wanted to do Flash Gordon.Couldn't do it,so he was forced to come up with his own 'Flash Gordon'.Not only was it just as good,it was arguably better than the source that inspired him.

Another that comes to mind is Darkman.Raimi wanted to do the Shadow.They wouldn't let him,so took his inspiration and put it into his own character.

I'm sure as any writer would tell you,there are no "new" concepts/ideas/characters.It's all been done/told for thousands of years.What a writer of any worth does,is not jump on to their favorite character with a death grip and demand to use them,but take what they like from a story/concept/character and put their own spin on it in a new setting/context.

It's been done like that for years and it's forced writers to create some great and admittedly not so great characters and concepts.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

The universe of fan fiction might attest to many fans preferring to write for characters and settings without adulterating them.

I'm for copyright, but would need really damn good reasons the rights should be perpetual.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The universe of fan fiction might attest to many fans preferring to write for characters and settings without adulterating them.

I'm for copyright, but would need really damn good reasons the rights should be perpetual.

As am I. Hell, originally copyright didn't even last as long as its creator. I think it would be great for a creator to release the rights to the public domain in his lifetime, but I can see why they might want to keep it for life. But that should be it.

 

[SuperFerret]

Being in the public domain has worked wonders for Sherlock Holmes. Having the character controlled by only one person/company just lets that character be held hostage by someone who may not just "crap on them in any way they want", but also prevent ANY good stories to be told about those characters.

For the character of Superman, one needs only to look at the division of the character's fandom to see that any portrayal of the character disappoints some group of people. If he were to be allowed into the public domain, we can get Nu52 Superman, Post-Crisis Superman, Pre-Crisis Superman, and a plethora of others, AND a choice of which version we want to support.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's not like DC couldn't keep making Superman comics and movies. They just wouldn't have a monopoly on it... forever.

Hell, while it's hardly a perfect analogy, imagine if the Kane estate did have sole rights to the character of Batman, and had said no one could ever use him again, or make a film adaption. Some of you would miss out on your favorite movies, and probably not be here.

 

[SuperFerret]

DC would also have the ability to advertise their Superman stories as the "REAL Superman", and I guarantee that a majority of fans will stick with those versions only.

Same with Holmes fans who only consider Doyle's work to be canon.

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

It's a funny thing to try to "protect" a property from the grave. After three generations, all thats left of an author's will is speculation and heresay. In the link i provided a locksmith claims his ancestors will in terms of a sequel to his work. Over a hundred years later. Theres an actual Les Miserables fighting game with a robo Valjean but this guy draws an arbitrary line at "sequel". It's insane.

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

DC would also have the ability to advertise their Superman stories as the "REAL Superman", and I guarantee that a majority of fans will stick with those versions only.

Same with Holmes fans who only consider Doyle's work to be canon.

Agreed. As of now itll take till 2033 just to for the initial gun happy Batman. By then even the nu52 will be a hazy memory. DCs getting a 95 year headstart. It'll take until nearly the year 3000 until Batman inc enters the public domain.

 

[jmc]

DC would also have the ability to advertise their Superman stories as the "REAL Superman", and I guarantee that a majority of fans will stick with those versions only.

Same with Holmes fans who only consider Doyle's work to be canon.

That's exactly right. What companies like DC and Disney need to realize is that their name will always be attached to their character regardless if they have a monopoly on them or not. The thing also is just because the character becomes part of the public domain doesn't mean every publisher or movie studio under the sun is suddenly going to produce their own version of Superman or Mickey Mouse.

 

[Mike_D202]

When you can't win the argument just insult the other side!

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

All aside, "crapping" is relative. Maybe lesbian innuit cannibal Superman wouldnt be so bad. Again, Disney, American McGee and Tim Burton(uh...thats disney too?) all had different takes on Alice. Were hardly overflowing with people crapping on Alice. Why assume it will be so with Superman. And more importantly, just because everyone and their granny can work on a character it dont mean they will. Hell, have you even seen Felix the Cat in anything lately? He's PD hes not even getting tshirts.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

What do you think fanfiction is full of? The only difference here is the ones who have something good will be the ones we see getting popular and rewarded for their efforts. Without worrying about some faceless corporation suing them into poverty.

Those characters don't belong to the fans in the first place. They are someone elses intellectual properties and should be protected.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Those characters don't belong to the fans in the first place. They are someone elses intellectual properties and should be protected.

Protected from what? People reading them? Whose making money from their fan fiction?

 

[Superwoman Prime]

All aside, "crapping" is relative. Maybe lesbian innuit cannibal Superman wouldnt be so bad. Again, Disney, American McGee and Tim Burton(uh...thats disney too?) all had different takes on Alice. Were hardly overflowing with people crapping on Alice. Why assume it will be so with Superman. And more importantly, just because everyone and their granny can work on a character it dont mean they will. Hell, have you even seen Felix the Cat in anything lately? He's PD hes not even getting tshirts.

Agreed.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I honestly feel like people dying to use protected properties fighting the public domain laws are being greedy. We have all the ideas that our creative minds can possibly conceive, but we want to complain because we can't write or create with someone else's property? That just sound silly to me. We don't have a right to other people's creations no matter how long it's been. It'd be fun to use them, yes, but we aren't owed anything.

And no, I don't care about previous works that are now in the public domain like Dracula, Frankenstein, etc. Heck, there are great superheroes in the public domain already. If people are so hot to tell stories with established characters, use those. Black Terror, Green Llama, Pyro-Man... all great characters to tell stories with. But as far as I'm concerned, they could have all stayed in the estates of their creators.

I'd rather see people come up with something new and innovative than rip off other people's already established ideas. I and many like me are bored of constant retellings of old stories. Hollywood, comics, etc.

Exactly.

100%

On an only semi-related note, this is why I hate reboots. We don't need anyone and everyones "take" on a work of fiction.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Protected from what? People reading them? Whose making money from their fan fiction?

Protected from YOU or people like you.

If I create a work of fiction, it is not YOUR fiction to create with. It is mine. And I do not want you to have access to it to create your own stories with.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

You failed to answer my questions.

"Protected" from what? How does fan fiction harm your work? Consider those rhetorical questions, because you're without an answer.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Creator, and owner are two very different things.

I believe the creator deserves certain rights. But once they die, that's it. Then it belongs to the world.

I can only thank the public domain Judeo-Christian God I don't believe in that our ancestors didn't have your mindset. For one thing, you might not have your beloved Thor.

So you're telling me that when Stan Lee dies, Spiderman, Hulk, X-Men, etc. should all become public domain??

Please.