Reed Richards" "don't Make Me Beg."????

[LouFerignoDemon]

No, what you asked was why WASN'T he this brawler.

I don't twist things. That speaks of low intellect.

 

[Darthphere]

Forgive me milady!!! But when I say that Reed should be more rugged (like he use to be) and then you twist it to mean that he should be like LOBO, that's an extreme agument.


Like I said....feast or famine with you and Darth. No in-between. Oh well.

This coming from a guy who posts an article about an arab man running over someone and proclaiming it as a terrorist act and as proof that all Arabs/Muslims are out to get us. True story, you posted this, its fact. So youre nobody to judge.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Actually, as far as Reed being a rugged adventurer goes, Cell Dog is absolutely correct.

Check out Before The Four: Reed Richards mini series. Reed was adventuring long before he formed the FF. He's also a master of judo, iirc.

I just dont agree that he was actually "begging" Commander Hill.

 

[Roughneck]

.... He's totally spineless now!! ... He had principles and back bone!!

Well he technically has no spine.

 

[Cyclops]

Dude, man's man is like the Bounty paper towel man, reed has always been nerdy science geek. A couple of exceptions doesnt make him a man's man. Thats like syainf Wolverine is a romantic because he hits on chicks all the time. Flawed logic. And dude, dont even start on me with that childish ****, im like half your age and show twice the maturity you do. Fact.

Also, you can have credentials, you cant be one.

EDIT: And when exactly was he a war veteran, being a military scientist doesnt make you a war veteran.

Just because he's arguably the most brilliant scientific mind on the planet, that somehow makes him less masculine?

 

[Kevin]

I think Reed's fine. Sue is badass though. Way tougher than Reed, But i'm not saying that in a bad way.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

All his Galactus point proved that is if you go up against Galactus, if youre anybody, you automatically beocme a man's man. I personally, if I was arguing to agree with you wouldve brought up Unthinkable, but thats me.

No I did not argue that at all. I, like Captain Stacy, was showing that Kirby (who wrote the Galactus story) portrayed him as a man's man. I was using one example of a moment where he showed courage under fire when other men did not. Standing up to Galactus is a fairly big deal, and very few Marvels have shown the fortitude to do so. However certainly exploring other worlds, sticking up for Ben Grimm no matter what, protecting his family even at the cost of his life, standing trail for letting Galactus live, freeing the Hulk in a court room despite the possible cosequences, going up against Dr Doom without the aid of powers...all point to a masculine, gutsy man's man.

Perhaps he is a massive brain, but as Celldog actually smartly pointed out, you're arguing in extremes. He is really smart therefore he must fill the "smart guy" role and nothing else. Ben is the "brawny one". But comic book characters ceased being one dimensional when FF#1 came out. Kirby and Lee envisioned a world where Superheroes grew and developed traits of normal human beings.

Spider-Man, for example, is not written as a introverted teen anymore. He may be extremely gifted and smart, but he does not have any major social disorders when it comes to women.

Batman is a massive intellect who also is a brawler and resident JLA badass. However many fans quote his intellect as being a chief strength. Same with Richards. He just doesn't fulfill "X" role and that's it. He does many things that indicate he is no mere brainiac. He shows bravery, and has an adventurers spirit...both of which qualify as manly qualities.

You're just arguing in black and whites to be combative with Celldog it seems.

 

[Darthphere]

Actually, as far as Reed being a rugged adventurer goes, Cell Dog is absolutely correct.

Check out Before The Four: Reed Richards mini series. Reed was adventuring long before he formed the FF. He's also a master of judo, iirc.

I just dont agree that he was actually "begging" Commander Hill.

Which is what im mnainly arguing against too, but I just dont agree that he is somehow a man's man or rugged. I dont think these are two attributes that can be placed on Reed Richards. Wolverine is rugged IMO, Stever Rogers is a man's man, thats when i think of when I hear those wrods, never have I or will I put those words towards Reed Richards. Brave? No doubt. Adventurous? Absolutely.

 

[Darthphere]

Perhaps he is a massive brain, but as Celldog actually smartly pointed out, you're arguing in extremes. He is really smart therefore he must fill the "smart guy" role and nothing else. Ben is the "brawny one". But comic book characters ceased being one dimensional when FF#1 came out. Kirby and Lee envisioned a world where Superheroes grew and developed traits of normal human beings.

Dude, im not saying that reed is just the smart guy as I said before. Im just saying that calling him a man's man or rugged is off base, see the response I gave Cap'n Stacy. Im not saying that Reed is just the smart guy and has never done anything courageous in his life or masculine. Im saying that those two speciific words dont fit the mold IMO for him. Because at the end this is all about opinion, and my opinion is no less valid than celldog's, but I disagree, and I will voice my disagreement. Its not aboutt me wanting to argue with Celldog, frankly arguing with celldog is frustrating, its about me disagreeing with what hes saying.

He in order to present a *****fied present Reed Richards has played up a side of reed Richards that isnt a main attribute of reed. I like Reed because hes brainy and he can get down for a fight, but I like him more as the brainy guy who is inventing some weapon to take down Annihilus rather than some big macho tough guy Celldog is trying to present him as, because yes, I admit he has that side, but thats not his primary character trait. He talks things out, puts a plan together then gets down to ass kciking always as a last resort, thats the way hes always been.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Which is what im mnainly arguing against too, but I just dont agree that he is somehow a man's man or rugged. I dont think these are two attributes that can be placed on Reed Richards. Wolverine is rugged IMO, Stever Rogers is a man's man, thats when i think of when I hear those wrods, never have I or will I put those words towards Reed Richards. Brave? No doubt. Adventurous? Absolutely.

So exactly what makes adventurous, couragous characters like Wolverine and Cap man's mans...and not Reed...because you say he is not. Because you don't picture Reed Richards in your mind's eye...

- Captain America is a master of Judo...so is Reed. Reed has seen just as much combat as Cap...maybe even combat far more dangerous. Alien Invasions vs. Nazi Invasions...I think I'd rather fight the humans.
- Wolverine was beaten by Reed Richards on two separate occasions....but Wolverine is somehow the man's man and Reed isn't.

The only argument you've presented to the contrary is that Reed is smart. Well Doom, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Batman and Black Panther are all probably on par with Reed...are they now all removed from the badass or man's man category?

 

[Darthphere]

So exactly what makes adventurous, couragous characters like Wolverine and Cap man's mans...and not Reed...because you say he is not. Because you don't picture Reed Richards in your mind's eye...

- Captain America is a master of Judo...so is Reed. Reed has seen just as much combat as Cap...maybe even combat far more dangerous. Alien Invasions vs. Nazi Invasions...I think I'd rather fight the humans.
- Wolverine was beaten by Reed Richards on two separate occasions....but Wolverine is somehow the man's man and Reed isn't.

The only argument you've presented to the contrary is that Reed is smart. Well Doom, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Batman and Black Panther are all probably on par with Reed...are they now all removed from the badass or man's man category?

Ive argued my points to death and were going around in circles here but let me put it the best way I can since youre pushing the issue. Heres a definition for rugged:

rug‧ged 
–adjective
1. having a roughly broken, rocky, hilly, or jagged surface: rugged ground.
2. (of a face) wrinkled or furrowed, as by experience or the endurance of hardship.
3. roughly irregular, heavy, or hard in outline or form; craggy: Lincoln's rugged features.
4. rough, harsh, or stern, as persons or nature.
5. full of hardship and trouble; severe; hard; trying: a rugged life.
6. tempestuous; stormy: rugged weather.
7. harsh to the ear: rugged sounds.
8. rude, uncultivated, or unrefined.
9. homely or plain: rugged fare.
10. capable of enduring hardship, wear, etc.; strong and tough: rugged floor covering; a rugged lumberjack.

Would those really apply to reed Richards? Any of those 10 defintions. I know what youre going to say but ill let you argue the one I know youre going to say. But on the flip side, doesnt that definition define Wolverine perfectly? Im sorry, but I dont see Wolverine ebing anything like Reed Richards, complete opposites actually.

And you ask me why i see Captain America as man's man and not reed? Well I think its fairly obvious. Cap in his essence is the american dream, baseball and apple pie, fought in World War II up until recently fought for his country everyday. You might disagree with this, but Reed and the rest of the F4 mostly just do battle when something happens to pop up. That aside, Cap is Mr. All America. Someone you can go hunting with, share a beer and watch a football game with, I dont see these traits in reed Richards.

So exactly what makes adventurous, couragous characters like Wolverine and Cap man's mans...and not Reed...because you say he is not. Because you don't picture Reed Richards in your mind's eye...

To answer this question specifically yes, its called opinion, feel free to disagree as youre already have, but I probably wont change my mind anytime soon.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

10. capable of enduring hardship, wear, etc.; strong and tough: rugged floor covering; a rugged lumberjack.

Would those really apply to reed Richards? .

That one. Right there.

 

[Darthphere]

That one. Right there.

I knew you were, but what does the example say? Like a rugged Lumberjack. See thats what i see, its all about perception, the example given agrees with my view of the definition, I dont see Reed as a rugged lumberjack or the Brawny man. What we have here is a very semantical argument. Im not going to change my mind on this, but you can continue trying to do so. By that definition as well you can define almost any hero as rugged, would Speedball be rugged?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

And you ask me why i see Captain America as man's man and not reed? Well I think its fairly obvious. Cap in his essence is the american dream, baseball and apple pie, fought in World War II up until recently fought for his country everyday. You might disagree with this, but Reed and the rest of the F4 mostly just do battle when something happens to pop up.

So wait...are you trying to tell people here that World War II did not pop up. Because it seems to me Captain America had nothing to do with starting that war, and like the Fantastic Four enlisted to fight it because he felt a responsibility to whom it was affecting...namely his country.

How is that any different from preforming your civic duty by fighting off alien invasions, and monsters. And I also note Reed did this before he had any powers. (Marvel Saga #1)

 

[Darthphere]

So wait...are you trying to tell people here that World War II did not pop up. Because it seems to me Captain America had nothing to do with starting that war, and like the Fantastic Four enlisted to fight it because he felt a responsibility to whom it was affecting...namely his country.

How is that any different from preforming your civic duty by fighting off alien invasions, and monsters. And I also note Reed did this before he had any powers. (Marvel Saga #1)

For the United States no. WWII started in 1939, we didnt get into until December 7, 1941. So it was already going on for two years when Cap and his boys got into it (Cap making his first appearance in Captain America Comics #1 March 1941. So, for the US and Cap, it didnt just pop up. Remember when you said I was taking things to extremes? Thats exactly what youve just done, because thats not what I said at all.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I knew you were, but what does the example say? Like a rugged Lumberjack

I think there has been a discussion about dictionaries elsewhere...rarely do they encompase the entirety of words...in that case it gives one example. However not all Lumberjacks in the world qualify as rugged...or fit the definition of being strong, tough, and capable of dealing with hardship...I guarentee you...nor do all people who are not lumberjack's fail this definition. Definitions in the dictionary rarely play out in the real world.

See thats what i see, its all about perception, the example given agrees with my view of the definition

So then stop arguing.

"It's my perception deal with it"

If that's you're argument then you have no purpose here. If you have no foundation other than random impressions of what you think might possibly be.

Most people here have shown Reed Richards can fall under this definition...as vague as you've presented it. Unless you have some foundation for it, you're argument holds no water. Besides the example doesn't fall under #10...it usually is just to give you an idea of where to use it in a sentence.

And furthermore, yes most comic characters qualify as man's mans...it's kind of the idea behind a Superhero in the first place.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

For the United States no. WWII started in 1939, we didnt get into until December 7, 1941. So it was already going on for two years when Cap and his boys got into it (Cap making his first appearance in Captain America Comics #1 March 1941. So, for the US and Cap, it didnt just pop up. Remember when you said I was taking things to extremes? Thats exactly what youve just done, because thats not what I said at all.

But it wasn't around forever and enternity. It did just "pop up".

No I haven't taken an extreme...in fact you have...by drawing distinct lines between "what is" and "what isn't"...that is an extreme.

 

[Darthphere]

Im giving my perception on the word and how I dont feel like it fits with describing Reed Richards. Telling me stop arguing isnt going to actually make me stop arguing. So you can stop doing that. Its relevant because the way you see a word applies to the way the word is used. Again this argument is all types of semantics and its getting quite boring. Feel free to disect further posts. Either way, if you dont like my views or opinions there is always the ignore function, I suggest you use it if you dont feel like arguing with me. Of course, thats not somethign I would do. Either way, the whole point behind my argument is not to show Reed as a pansy or a *****, its quite the opposite. The whole point was to show why Reed is currently not a ***** or a pansy and how Celldog was playing up a small part of Reed as if it was the primary trait. For the sake of ending this snesless debate, because its not always about me, ill agree, hes rugged and adventurous and man's man, show me how Celldog is right to say hes a ***** now? Because thats what im doing, I hate to use this example again but he was playing him as Rambo, which he is not to show some type of *****fication in the present. Thats what at the core im disagreeing with. If you want to make it somehting else go ahead.

 

[Darthphere]

But it wasn't around forever and enternity. It did just "pop up".

No I haven't taken an extreme...in fact you have...by drawing distinct lines between "what is" and "what isn't"...that is an extreme.

2 years is a long time.

 

[Caliber]

So what did Hill do to Reed in Frontline?

 

[Cyclops]

Ohhhhhh I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay,
I sleep all night and I work all day.

I chop down trees,
I skip and jump,
I go to the lava'try.
On Wednesdays I go shopping,
and have buttered scones for tea.

I chop down trees,
I wear high heels,
suspenders and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie,
just like my dear papa.

 

[celldog]

2 years is a long time.

By the way...the O.S.S. was the precursor to the C.I.A.
Basically Reed was a spy. Behind enemy lines, no less.

 

[celldog]

http://www.toonopedia.com/sgt_fury.htm

 

[celldog]

http://www.toonopedia.com/sgt_fury.htm

 

[ShadowBoxing]

http://www.toonopedia.com/sgt_fury.htm

"Another aspect of that style was frequent use of crossovers. Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic), who was known by Fantastic Four readers to have seen combat in World War II, turned up in the third issue"