Religious Figures

Discussion in 'Marvel Comics' started by The Geek Vault, Dec 24, 2007.

  1. The Geek Vault Come at me bro

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    What do you guys think of having realigious figures in comics? I mean like God and Jesus? For instance in a F4 issue way back The Thing died and went to Heaven and God was revealed to be a comic artist at a desk. Do you guys believe that this is ok? Would you guys subject if they had Satan in a comic? Cain and Able have been in a few comics what are your views? What if Sampson from the Bible was brought into comics? Would that cross the line?
     
  2. DoomJester A side-kick no longer.

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    For the most part I think the "gods" in the comics don't even strike me as "religious" figures. They are "powerful beings" but somehow not much more powerful than some of the characters you read about, and they are rarely objects of worship. So I don't even care that much.

    When it comes to say more mainstream religious figures, Christian figures, it depends. On the context and my mood. Being a Christian I am a little sensitive at times because I feel when people talk about "God" or stuff it is almost always the Christian god. I feel like no one really talks about other religions, except for say some very Eastern religions which are often more like philosophies. So that puts me on edge every once and while.

    But I let the stuff go-- irreverence is par for the comics course, and I don't cry about every little thing. Besides whenever comics do say stuff about religion or gods (and it's usually God, and it's usually bad), it is often juvenile in its manner. I've never heard a good argument against religion in a comic, and usually the "Christianity" in the books is Manichaeism anyways, so I think a lot of the issues are misunderstandings.

    Besides, it's a story, I can't assume because the author writes a certain thing that they believe it. I think that is what allows me to shrug off a lot of what is said. I mean, comic writers write about crime and beating people up and I can't assume they "support" that. So I'm not going to get in a knot about religion because it could very well be a story to them, and as long as I don't feel they are trying to offend I'm fine.

    What about bringing Sampson into a comic? Well, he was in All Star Superman, and my head asploded. No I'm kidding about my head. I don't care. I mean, I was looking through say Battle Pope and I decided it wasn't something I'd read but I'm not going to go on some anti-Kirkman rant. I wonder what people would say if something like that were done to some other religious figure(s) but as for me I just wouldn't read it.

    In general though, I don't expect any of the mainstream books to ever actually pick a "god" for there universe (in the single omnipotent being sense) because it isn't really necessary and would from a marketing perspective cause more problems than not.
     
  3. Kirk Langstrom FRANCINE!!!!

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    Well, the JLA had an Angel, Zuriel, in their line-up...if there are Angels in the DC universe, is it safe to say there is a biblical God?
     
  4. The Geek Vault Come at me bro

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    Well I know that thor and Ares and Mephisto are all aliens who basically just play off the legends right? Like if Jesus was drawn in a comic would that offend you? Also, in one of the first of Hudlin's Black Panther runs they sent Black Knight to go to Wakanda and there's this whole thing about how they will convert people. What do you guys think of that. In Black Panther he has physically seen his "panther god" ya know, does this mean there are multiple gods in the Marvel universe. Also Does anyone mind if I bring up my epic harry potter discussion? I really wanna hear feed back on this?
     
  5. GoldenAgeHero Registered

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    thor isn't an alien:huh:
     
  6. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    No, they're not aliens. The first ones were formed from the "godstuff" that every planet has in its formative years, which is why planets throughout the universe all have gods. The rest are just the biological, godly children of those gods. Hell, Thor's mom is Mother Nature, so he can't really get more tied to Earth than he is.
    There is indeed a biblical God in the DC universe. Zauriel, Asmodel, and all the other angels, arranged in four hosts that match the animals associated with each of the gospels--eagle, bull, lion, and man--all report to Him. Eclipso was His divine wrath back in the Old Testament days and the Spectre is His wrath now.

    The DC universe also has a bona fide Satan--the biblical Lucifer, for whom there's been a whole Vertigo series, which is in continuity because it's from back in the days when DC still allowed Vertigo titles to publish stories about mainstream DC characters. He's even said in the Sandman series to be second only to God in power. Of course, Mike Carey takes a decidedly Milton-esque approach to Lucifer, presenting him with some heroic qualities, and he and Gaiman threw in a bunch of weird quirks to top DC's Lucifer off--like the fact that he got bored of ruling Hell and abandoned it, leaving a couple of angels to rule it in his stead.

    Personally, I love the addition of Judeo-Christian religious figures in DC's cosmology. I don't really draw any distinction between the figures of those religions and the ancient myths' gods, except that the former are clearly intended to be far more powerful and a bunch of people still believe in them. Plus, avoiding them just makes everything seem far faker and more manufactured. It's ironic that Marvel only just recently added a true Satan to its ranks, rather than its running commentary that various demons, including Marduk Kurios and Mephisto, have posed as Satan but none are the true being, since Marvel has always prided itself on being the "more realistic" of the big two universes.
     
  7. Kirk Langstrom FRANCINE!!!!

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    That's interesting...do you mean the recent Ghost Rider book in regards to Satan appearing in the Marvel Universe, or have there been other comics?
     
  8. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    I meant Ghost Rider. At least, that's the only time I know of a dude calling himself Lucifer or Satan and no one behind the scenes at Marvel objecting via a little box or Handbook entry that says he's just some other demon masquerading as Satan.

    Given the recent big revelation concerning GR, it seems we may be seeing more of the Judeo-Christian guys upstairs, too. I still don't really like that Mephisto's role in his origin was changed to Lucifer with no explanation whatsoever, but it's nice that at least one book is integrating some modern theology into the Marvel universe.
     
  9. Mr. Green Where the Wild Hulks Are

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    I wouldn't do it if I were a writer. But personally, there was a religious "character" in a comic that I objected to, I wouldn't cry about it like a little *****. I just wouldn't buy the comic.

    Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to read/watch/listen to things that you object to.
     
  10. Anubis Sup?

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    If you're willing to read about Thor then super Jesus shouldn't bother you one bit.
     
  11. Mr. Green Where the Wild Hulks Are

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    Coming Soon: Super Jesus Vs. Galactus Vs. Goku thread!
     
  12. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    I wrote and drew a comic where Jesus fights a toilet one time.
     
  13. sandwraith The Trailblazer Awakens

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    Who won dare I ask???
     
  14. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    I think the toilet got away. It's been a while since I looked at it.
     
  15. Banshee Registered

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    Preacher is ****ing awesome.


    That is all.
     
  16. sandwraith The Trailblazer Awakens

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    I wouldn't mind a comic which featured Lot's niece. She's probably got lots of stories to tell. Under the Vertigo or MAX imprint of course.
     
  17. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    I don't mind it at all, but I do worry about them getting it wrong sometimes.

    I really liked it way back when DC characters universally referred to God as "the Presence." It was like, hey, God is so goddamn real here, he literally has a title specifically designed for this 'verse. They don't do it anymore, which is just not fun:(.
     
  18. yenaled 3X2(9YZ)4A

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    I always thought the Presence was a very good way of explaining religion and the God.
     
  19. Xofenroht The Mad Moreno

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    1) These religious figures ARE mythological which means they came from the same place that our superheroes and other fictional characters came from. That place being the human imagination.

    2) That Fantastic Four issue where "God" was pictured as a comic book artist...well, that wasn't just ANY comic book artist, that was "THE KING", as in JACK "THE KING" KIRBY. Technically, he IS their God, considering he gave them shape and form. That was more of a nod to an icon than anything else.

    3) People take religion too seriously.
     
  20. DoomJester A side-kick no longer.

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    I say write your stories. Do you need Satan in the Marvel Universe? Well, you could always introduce a character for an arc and then never use the character again. There is nothing wrong with that, but is Satan really Satan? Is he the architect of most of the evil in the world? Or is he a guy named Satan so we know he's really bad? That's why it becomes complicated to add characters like that. I mean, I do remember earlier Marvel did the Hellstorm Son of Satan mini (the new Max one), which was just so slow and boring I stopped halfway through. But I don't know if that was in continuity.

    I don't mind seeing the stuff in comics/manga/games. In Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne (excellent RPG though a grinding RPG to the max) you encounter God. Although it had a decidedly darker take I won't get up and cry. Write your story. I think people can recognize when you let the story dictate what you are writing and when you are trying to shove a particular point down someone's throat. I mean, Lady Death was very manichaeistic, but it featured God and Devil all the time but there was no real philosophical point. The two characters had (in someways regrettably) been relegated to characters in story, but what happened was dictated by the plot.
     
  21. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    Ditto. If you've got a story featuring God, by all means, go for it. Don't shy away from it just because religious fundamentalism and political correctness are like warring cancerous plagues in the USA. People need to realize that God in a comic book is God in a comic book. It doesn't necessarily affect your actual religious beliefs unless you let it.
     
  22. Kitsune Fox of Ages

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  23. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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  24. Kitsune Fox of Ages

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    This one is funny too.
    [​IMG]
     
  25. DareDemon Hi! I like shorts!

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    Way I figure it, most of the time it isn't the actual God or Satan, just powerful beings pretending to be.

    On a similar note, I just beat Big Red Lou in Guitar Hero 3 and now I am calling myself the God of Rock. Expect lots of suffering.
     

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