Ridley Scott's "Exodus" - Part 1

[Nolan-TDKR]

Well, folks, we can forget getting an extended cut.

At around 2hrs 25 minutes into the making-of documentary of Exodus, that's exclusive to the deluxe edition blu-ray, the lead editor says that him and Ridley discussed doing an extended cut and that both of them agreed it wasn't necessary and that everything cut was cut for a good reason and that the theatrical cut is the best cut.

Ridley Scott believes that a theatrical cut has to be within a certain length due to what he has dubbed "bummic factor", which is probably the real reason behind the many cuts.

What would be the point in mentioning that there is a four hour cut that works perfectly if you have no intention of releasing it.

 

[Schlosser85]

Everyone is right. Exodus is a mess, and unfortunately better editing wouldn't fix the miscasting, bad acting, or poor narrative choices.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Scott lost his touch, man.

Hell, I told myself I wouldn't see another one of his films after that wine movie he made with Crowe. Marion Cotillard is lovely to look at and who wouldn't move to france for her? But goddamn.

 

[Marvolo]

Everyone is right. Exodus is a mess, and unfortunately better editing wouldn't fix the miscasting, bad acting, or poor narrative choices.

Speaking of the casting, Scott had this to say John Turturro's casting

I like going with people who haven't done it before. And uh I like to shock by casting people so people say, "Who's that? Oh, my God, that's John Turturro." I love to do that. Particularly when they're really working, they're pulling it off. So A, you're getting a character who's usefully, from the commercial aspect of the film, because it's very nice to have these kind of weight of actors as part of the ensemble. But at the same time, 'cause they're not used to playing this kind of role, it's a surprise piece of casting, which also makes it fresh.

From Keepers of the Covenant Making Exodus Gods and Kings

Was it good casting? No. It's a bit too distracting to be good. But this quote proves what I said in here multiple times. Scott is a studio friendly director. He casts based on commercial aspects and apparently for shock. He wasn't being racist.

As for Bale, and Bale corroborates this, they had talked four or five years ago about doing something together. Bale approached him back then. Scott remembered this and thought he'd be good for Moses. Bale initially was skeptical and not being religious he didn't know much about Moses but he said he started reading the Torah and tho he didn't want to do the Heston type of Moses and wanted to avoid a Mel Brooks type Moses he felt he could really do something with the character so he took the role.

 

[Schlosser85]

Well Bale also referred to Moses as barbaric and schizophrenic.

 

[Marvolo]

Well Bale also referred to Moses as barbaric and schizophrenic.

I think any non religious person would think he was. He heard voices and led a 40+ year campaign that resulted in who knows how many deaths of men women and children.

this?

Yep. I watched the whole scene. What happens is Ramses is on a snake hunt with his servants and his bodyguards. Moses and a group of his rebels are waiting to capture him. That's Moses's plan A. Capture Ramses and hold him hostage til he gives into their demands. So Ramses walks ahead of his servants and guards. And he is out of their sight wrangling a cobra. Moses steps from behind some tall grass and has a bow and arrow trained on Ramses. Ramses turns around and then a bunch of other Jews pop up from behind rocks and they all have bows. Moses says that Ramses is coming with them. Ramses asks Moses if he wants him to bring the snake. Ramses says "Well, no I guess not. You never liked them." He acts like he is going to put it down then he throws the snake right at Moses's face. Moses reacts and points his bow and arrow at the snake but a hawk swoops down and grabs the snake before it can bite Moses. Ramses screams for his guards and runs. A short skirmish between Moses and his men and the guards. Then later Moses goes to talk with God and he thanks God for sending the hawk to save him from the snake.

Another deleted scene is an extension of the scene where God tells Moses that "For now all you have to do is watch." As Moses is walking away God tells Moses to put his sword into the water and see what happens. Moses goes to the Nile and places his sword into the water and when he pulls it out there is this sort of unfinished effect of him seeing something on his sword then birds fly from the tall grass and the crocs go into the water and attack the fishers.

I wish they had left those two things in because it makes Moses look less like someone who is attributing natural disasters to God. God is actively protecting Moses from harm and Moses actually starts the plagues with his sword.

 

[Schlosser85]

It's hard to tell what the movie was trying to say, given the shoddy editing and vague ambiguity of everything, but something I wondered...

We get the bit with Ramses playing with his cobras and injecting their venom into a jar, and like next scene Seti is suddenly deathly ill....

Was the movie trying to hint Ramses poisoned his father?

 

[Marvolo]

It's hard to tell what the movie was trying to say, given the shoddy editing and vague ambiguity of everything, but something I wondered...

We get the bit with Ramses playing with his cobras and injecting their venom into a jar, and like next scene Seti is suddenly deathly ill....

Was the movie trying to hint Ramses poisoned his father?

I don't think so. Ramses was drinking that poison. The belief was that repeatedly ingesting small doses of poison could build an immunity to the poison so if he got bit he might not die. He even says that in the film. And with him hunting cobras in a deleted scene I'm guessing that's all it ever was meant to be. Him making himself stronger.

 

[Schlosser85]

I feel the movie did a terrible job with character development. I felt like they couldn't make up their mind how they were portraying Moses, and that Ramses felt really ill-defined as to how villainous we were supposed to view him.

 

[Marvolo]

I feel the movie did a terrible job with character development. I felt like they couldn't make up their mind how they were portraying Moses, and that Ramses felt really ill-defined as to how villainous we were supposed to view him.

Ramses doesn't strike me as a villain. Just a man desperately trying to keep things under some semblance of control. He has a rebellion going on and a plague and crises on his hands. And Moses is bat**** crazy running around the city instigating trouble.

The rewatch definitely helped me with the movie, but the character development really is lacking largely due to the material chopped out of the first third. Ramses decision to exile Moses makes little sense without the conversations between Ramses and his mother Tuya. As it stands he exiles him even though he believes it isn't true and doesn't want to do so. He is king he didn't need to. The missing scenes however make it an issue of power. Tuya presents it as a pragmatic decision to shore up power for himself and keep Moses from gaining it. She presents a good argument and that's what pushes Ramses to exile him. And Tuya's words feed his fear of the prophecy. All that got left on the cutting room floor. So whats left is a murky friendship that goes sour because a thief tells him a story. Things move fast and without logical motive.

And Moses...well Bale played him a bit too crazy. Skeptical pre concussion Moses was great imo. He was confident. He was kind of funny. He would put someone in their place. He was a leader. Then he gets hit on the head and he becomes this bedraggled dirty yelling rebel hobo who sees a little angry kid that no one else can see. It's just not good. The Moses that occupies the second half of the movie isn't pleasant at all. He fits the profile of a crazy religious leader, but it's not the Moses that any of us really care to watch for over an hour. Whether we be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or non religious the crazy Moses isn't enjoyable. Imo he comes across much weaker than the Moses that occupies the first half of the film.

 

[Warhammer]

Marvolo, you hit a home run with that post.

 

[Apollo]

It is a wasted opportunity if they don't to the extended cut.. All that unused footage that could have made it a lot better... what a waste.

 

[chamber-music]

Ridley is definitely a more studio friendly and commercially minded director these days.

 

[Warhammer]

I just wish they went ahead and made this movie straight up Biblical. Or hell, even them making Moses an unapologetic nutcase would have been better. When you make a film like this, you don't pander to everyone because then nobody ends up liking it.

Like The Last Temptation of Jesus Christ. It is a huge deviation and even offended many people...but it was a good film. With each new film, Scott disappoints me more and more. I keep thinking "Holy damn, this is it. He will return to what he used to be". Then I am disappointed.

 

[dark_b]

I just wish they went ahead and made this movie straight up Biblical. Or hell, even them making Moses an unapologetic nutcase would have been better. When you make a film like this, you don't pander to everyone because then nobody ends up liking it.

.

but that way they made a lot money. look at those numbers. 400 millions domestic and 800 millions worldwide. its the biggest movie in human history.t:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=exodus.htm

i knew what would happen. they were casting white actors because they thought that it will make more money. BS. it underperformed. or is this an official bomb?

 

[Marvolo]

but that way they made a lot money. look at those numbers. 400 millions domestic and 800 millions worldwide. its the biggest movie in human history.t:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=exodus.htm

i knew what would happen. they were casting white actors because they thought that it will make more money. BS. it underperformed. or is this an official bomb?

Well considering the tax incentives from Spain and the DVD and blu-ray sales it won't be a bomb, but it wasn't a particularly profitable venture either. Fox is probably not rushing to green light other biblical epics in the near future.

 

[Nolan-TDKR]

I am not sure if he is serious or not but during the last question of the interview he says that he is planning to release an extended cut of the movie: http://www.dga.org/Events/2015/Jan2015/Exodus_QnA.aspx

 

[Marvolo]

I am not sure if he is serious or not but during the last question of the interview he says that he is planning to release an extended cut of the movie: http://www.dga.org/Events/2015/Jan2015/Exodus_QnA.aspx

That was posted a while back, but the editor of the movie said in the making of documentary him and Ridley agreed one wasn't necessary and that one wasn't going to be released. Regardless of whether Scott wants one or not, if DVD and blu-ray sales aren't good Scott may not be able to get the green light to make one. The cut scenes are very rough, and would need VFX, grading, and sound mixing completed. That's not cheap. So anyone who is hoping for or wanting an Extended Cut needs to go out and buy the theatrical cut because good sales of the current blu-ray and DVD are what will fund the release of an extended cut. We have to show them that their is demand otherwise they won't supply, and even then they might not. Scott has a lot of projects on his plate over the next 3-4 years.

 

[Warhammer]

Give me my Prometheus sequel, damn it. And make it decent this time, Scott. For you and for me.

 

[MrCandy]

I'm getting really concerned for Ridley Scott, his last two films(The Counselor and Exodus) are absolute crap and easily the worst of his career. The only movies in the last 10 years thats hes done that I enjoyed are American Gangster and Prometheus. If his next film The Martian(which is based on a critically acclaimed book) is crap, then I think hes officially done as a serious filmmaker.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

So did this perform well at the box office or under perform?

 

[Nolan-TDKR]

That was posted a while back, but the editor of the movie said in the making of documentary him and Ridley agreed one wasn't necessary and that one wasn't going to be released. Regardless of whether Scott wants one or not, if DVD and blu-ray sales aren't good Scott may not be able to get the green light to make one. The cut scenes are very rough, and would need VFX, grading, and sound mixing completed. That's not cheap. So anyone who is hoping for or wanting an Extended Cut needs to go out and buy the theatrical cut because good sales of the current blu-ray and DVD are what will fund the release of an extended cut. We have to show them that their is demand otherwise they won't supply, and even then they might not. Scott has a lot of projects on his plate over the next 3-4 years.

I would imagine the making of exodus documentary was already finished when the DGA interview took place, maybe he changed his mind?

 

[Ridlazz]

I got really pissed off when i saw that there were many deleted scenes, that wasnt included in the deleted scene section of the BLU-RAY !

Its Blu-ray....ffs you can put on those things !

I had the same reaction when i discovered that for body of lies they filmed some hot sex scens with that really hot red haired chick from game of thrones, but its not included in the deleted scens !

 

[Herolee10]

After seeing this film once more for some perspective, I'm kind of curious to hear what others thought on this topic...but based on how the situation was presented in the context of the film itself, did you guys interpret that God...or Malak (Angel of God as he's called in the Wiki article) was actually just a hallucination created by Moses from his accident on Mt. Sinai?

Or was there enough evidence, provided in the events of the film, to suggest that despite the head injury, that what Moses was real and not a figment of his imagination?

And just to clarify, I'm not trying to start a Atheists vs Religion topic; I'm only talking about the context of this film and this film alone.

 

[Marvolo]

Moses was a bit too lucky in the film for there not to be some sort of higher power at work. The plagues, Ramses chariots avalanching down the mountain, the asteroid and tsunami pulling the water out so they could cross, and then Moses and Ramses surviving thousands of tons of water landing on them... a higher power is the only way that stuff doesn't seem like absurdly convenient timing, coincidence, and superhuman strength.

If the Boy wasn't a delusion then it definitely wasn't an angel. He says that he is "I AM." The implication of that phrase is a being that is existence itself. Nothing imparted existence onto Him. He is the original existence from which all other things received existence from. That's the meaning behind that phrase in the Bible. However Scott and the writer muddied the waters. At times the Boy comes across as someone who isn't all knowing, and Moses calls him a messenger. The Jews called Angels "messengers". If the boy really was "I AM" then he would have corrected Moses. Heck, Moses wouldn't have called him a messenger in the first place. Not after He said "I AM". I suspect the writer, who
Scott said was an atheist, simply isn't well versed in Judeo/christian theology.