Robert Downey Jr. Is Dr. Doom / Victor Von Doom - "Same task, new mask"

[Arachnerd]

This quote from the Sneider article is something I've also thought about since this announcement.

Imagine if this is how they get Tom Cruise involved.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Might have been me lol; this was my post from back in January. But, to be fair, I think a lot of people were expecting a AvX or Incursion to replace Kang

Ah yes haha! I had a feeling after posting but couldn’t find your post. It’s crazy to me because that idea would have been so much simpler than what they’re trying to do here. And so much more impactful.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Imagine if this is how they get Tom Cruise involved.

I was watching theory videos on YouTube and there was one where Victor Von Doom and Tony Stark switch bodies in the comics? Or something along those lines? Kind of like the movie Face/Off. Could they cast someone else to play Tony Stark, who's actual supposed to be Doom?

I don't know how well that would work on screen and I never read that comic.

 

[Venom 1988]

The Russo Bros' and RDJ's salaries make this so much worse. A "trailer encampment." LMAO

Pay no heed to the starving, underpaid VFX artists working 90-hour weeks there in the back.

Yeah. 80 million for the Russos plus 100 million and ridiculous amenties for RDJ. Given the climate the last few years reading this just gives off bad vibes. Don't get me wrong, when these giant companies are making billions of dollars, you should pay the people their worth. But like another user said, when someone like Iman Vellani is getting paid half a million or as you mentioned the vfx people are getting overworked/underpaid something is really wrong here.

 

[Iceman]

Are Marvel Studios forgetting that it's not just RDJ who is their biggest actor but also Iron Man is their biggest character. Sure he's played by RDJ but audiences liked to see Tony Stark in his red and gold armour. Playing Doom means people won't get to see Iron Man as a character or Tony Stark, unless he is still playing Stark and Doom is not really Doom but a variant.

Yeah, that's part of why this announcement didn't really give me what I want. I want RDJ back doing what he does best, and I don't mind a different version of Stark (like an evil one ).

 

[Iceman]

It's always possible RDJ will play a good Tony Stark/Iron Man variant in Secret Wars, while also playing Doom.

That way MCU could have their cake and eat it.

Without that I don't see it as something that will be an equivalent long term boost. It's (merely) big actor with nostalgic link to franchise takes big role. It's like NWH bringing Garfield and Maguire back but not having them play Spider-Man.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Without that I don't see it as something that will be an equivalent long term boost. It's (merely) big actor with nostalgic link to franchise takes big role. It's like NWH bringing Garfield and Maguire back but not having them play Spider-Man.

If Doomsday and Secret Wars will end up being 100% nostalgia fests with all the old cast returning then I think Marvel has really given up on these new heroes they've spent the last 4 years introducing. If these Avengers movies aren't used to give them a boost then Marvel is probably just banking on Mutants to carry the franchise forward.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

If Doomsday and Secret Wars will end up being 100% nostalgia fests with all the old cast returning then I think Marvel has really given up on these new heroes they've spent the last 4 years introducing. If these Avengers movies aren't used to give them a boost then Marvel is probably just banking on Mutants to carry the franchise forward.

I'm expecting a hard reboot after Secret Wars and they'll probably focus it's main energy on X-Men storylines, while introducing other big characters along the way.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

I'm expecting a hard reboot after Secret Wars and they'll probably focus it's main energy on X-Men storylines, while introducing other big characters along the way.

They won't do it because they can still get at least a few more solo movies out of some of the characters post-Secret Wars.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

They won't do it because they can still get at least a few more solo movies out of some of the characters post-Secret Wars.

Possibly....but then what? You're just gonna end everything with those solo movies? I feel this entire timeline/universe needs to end with a big movie.

 

[Venom 1988]

Possibly....but then what? You're just gonna end everything with those solo movies? I feel this entire timeline/universe needs to end with a big movie.

I do agree that there's probably going to be a reset after Secret Wars but I don't think it's gonna be a total reboot. Reason being is Feige's thought process on it.

"In a million years I would not advocate rebooting the Iron Man MCU. To me it's James Bond and we can keep telling new stories for decades even with different actors."

Now granted, this email from Feige (part of the Sony leaks) was from 14 years ago, long before they decided to kill off Tony. The MCU was in a vastly difference place then than it is now. People can certaintly change their minds on things, especially when billions of dollars is on the line. But I do think there is some aspect of this is still true. I do think there will be a reset but in a way that still keeps the MCU's history intact. I don't see them retelling people's origin stories again but I do think there gonna do something to reopen up the door to retired/dead characters.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Dark Raven]

Frank Langella as Skeletor might end up better than RDJ as Doom. At least Skeletor didn't crack jokes all the time.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Frank Langella as Skeletor might end up better than RDJ as Doom.

Doesn't he usually get praised for that role, even if the rest of the film is usually **** on?

 

[Dark Raven]

Doesn't he usually get praised for that role, even if the rest of the film is usually **** on?

Yep. He's what Doom should be like and what I hoped he would be like rather than a wise cracking billionaire.

 

[Kon]

If Doomsday and Secret Wars will end up being 100% nostalgia fests with all the old cast returning then I think Marvel has really given up on these new heroes they've spent the last 4 years introducing. If these Avengers movies aren't used to give them a boost then Marvel is probably just banking on Mutants to carry the franchise forward.

The announcement of RDJ returns implies they have already given up on the new heroes.

It's pretty likely they originally planned to bring RDJ back for a minor role in Secret Wars (not like Doom). However, they are using RDJ return as the big promotion for Avengers 5 and 6. That shows how little faith they have on the current Avengers members.

 

[Ironfan72]

Yep. He's what Doom should be like and what I hoped he would be like rather than a wise cracking billionaire.

I prefer RDJ as the wise cracking Billionaire, not Doom, but this is what we are getting, i doubt he will be like Stark though, Downey can act, so we will see a different side of him in the MCU, just not the side many wanted

 

[LoganPool]

Frank Langella as Skeletor might end up better than RDJ as Doom. At least Skeletor didn't crack jokes all the time.

You know he's not actually Tony Stark, right? It's called acting. He literally just won an Oscar for a role in which he cracked ZERO jokes.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

It is. Make no mistake, that is exactly what happened here. You don't build up the main villain of the next saga only to then pivot into a different one near the end of said saga. Them screwing up Kang along with Jonathan Majors' actions are what led this to happen, bringing in Doom was never in the cards originally.

It is nothing but a shameless desperate move from someone who's trying to regain the goodwill he once had when his franchise has been struggling quality and money wise these past few years. This was not due to some brilliant creative idea or story they want to explore, it's about playing it as safe as humanly possible and bringing back the beloved actor who helped kickstart the MCU. The fans did not matter to Feige in this decision, only the general audience's wallet, otherwise we finally would have gotten a faithful Doctor Doom adaptation in a Fantastic Four sequel down the line. This is more apparent when we have now learned that Matt Shakman, the man tackling the MCU Fantastic Four, had absolutely no input in the casting of Doom

The original title of Avengers 5 was Kang Dynasty. Now its called Avengers Doomsday. So yes, this is absolutely a panicked pivot.

Was it likely that Doom was going to play a role in these two Avengers movies? Absolutely. Was he always planned to be the main villain? He was obviously not, given how all in they were on Kang and Johnathan Majors. Doom likely would've had a different role, or he would've been teased as a future villain. But he is now being played by RDJ and being placed in this spot because Kang and Majors did not work out. That is obvious at this point.

I don't know in what universe people are thinking they were going to do a Secret Wars movie and not have Dr Doom be the big bad guy. Doom is so intrinsically linked to Secret Wars, MULTIPLE of the comic runs. And much like in the comics, where he emerged as a surprise ultimate threat after the obvious one (Beyonder) I think it's pretty safe to assume they'd likely do something similar with Kang.

I'm not saying theres NO pivot at all here, I'm just saying including Doom isn't the pivot people are likely making it out to be. If anything, it's very possible it leaves Secret Wars largely untouched, if Doom was going to be the real villain of that (ala the comics). Which means Kangs involvement was going to be more of a catalyst, posing as the major multiversal threat to bring the many universes heroes together.

So that leaves things in a situation where if the story is potentially ending up in the same place anyway, the only pivot is in how they direct the story there. And if the writing is good, then it won't matter. Rewriting stories like that is the bread and butter of any seasoned writer. These kind of pivots are only bad when things like story get rushed as a result, and it doesn't seem like they've been in a rush over this anyway so I dunno. I stand by my words.

I think it's very easy for people to point and panic over the MCU lately because they've had so many shockers but the reality is, nobody knows. But after a bunch of movies that have done nothing but play it safe and lean into nostalgia, at least this was an unexpected twist and Marvel taking a big swing. If I had to choose between a safe but boring option or a risky big swing, I'm choosing the big swing every time.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I'm expecting a hard reboot after Secret Wars and they'll probably focus it's main energy on X-Men storylines, while introducing other big characters along the way.

I think a soft reboot is more likely. I'm assuming they'll mirror the comics, where a bunch of universes collide and create a new reality (where maybe only a handful of heroes remember). This way they can bring over the F4 from their universe along with a new X-Men and I assume a massive influx of mutants, hence Feige dubbing the next chapter the Mutant Saga.

 

[Venom 1988]

I'm not saying theres NO pivot at all here

I think it's silly that people are assuming this is a panicked pivot away from Kang.

Look no one is saying that Doom wasn't potentially going to be part of Secret Wars in some capacity but this is very much a big pivot from what they have planned. The trades have been reporting for over a year now since Majors got into legal trouble that Marvel has been trying pivot away from Kang and specifically towards Doom. While the comics are at times a good indicator of what they are going to do in the movies, it's not definitive or absolute. These movies are an adapation and the MCU has shown time after time they have had no trouble deviating from the source material if it suits them.

But after a bunch of movies that have done nothing but play it safe and lean into nostalgia, at least this was an unexpected twist and Marvel taking a big swing. If I had to choose between a safe but boring option or a risky big swing, I'm choosing the big swing every time.

Um what do you think they are doing now? By bringing back RDJ they are double downing on the nostalgia and going the safe route. Not to mention bringing back the Russos further cements that. The risky option would be going for a new actor and a new director.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I find the notion that RDJ as Doom is a big swing or a risk to be pretty funny. It's anything but a risk. It's the safest possible risk adverse move ever

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Its not safe because what if the audience doesn't buy into it? What if its the cinematic equivalent of turning Stone Cold Steve Austin heel in 2001 post-WrestleMania X7? Whether Downey is playing proper Doom or a Stark variant in Doom cosplay, there is the possibility that the audience just doesn't buy it and it backfires on Marvel.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Its not safe because what if the audience doesn't buy into it? What if its the cinematic equivalent of turning Stone Cold Steve Austin heel in 2001 post-WrestleMania X7? Whether Downey is playing proper Doom or a Stark variant in Doom cosplay, there is the possibility that the audience just doesn't buy it and it backfires on Marvel.

They're getting his name on the poster and that's all most will care about. If this wasn't a safe move, someone else would have been cast. They're not investing 100 mil per movie on what they deem a risk. They're spending it exactly for the opposite.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I do agree that there's probably going to be a reset after Secret Wars but I don't think it's gonna be a total reboot. Reason being is Feige's thought process on it.

"In a million years I would not advocate rebooting the Iron Man MCU. To me it's James Bond and we can keep telling new stories for decades even with different actors."

Now granted, this email from Feige (part of the Sony leaks) was from 14 years ago, long before they decided to kill off Tony. The MCU was in a vastly difference place then than it is now. People can certaintly change their minds on things, especially when billions of dollars is on the line. But I do think there is some aspect of this is still true. I do think there will be a reset but in a way that still keeps the MCU's history intact. I don't see them retelling people's origin stories again but I do think there gonna do something to reopen up the door to retired/dead characters.

I think a lot of that will depend on how well these next two Avengers films fare. I have no doubt they'll each make close to 2 billion or more. They're gonna have to find a way to cruise along without RDJ at some point.