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superheroes vs. the laws of physics

Silicon Surfer said:
She draws upon virtually infinite energy from the higher regions of hyperspace whatever that means. According to Nathaniel Richards.

Yeah, because doesn't Franklin's alleged future son also use the same source of powers or some crap like that?
 
Yeah, Hyperstorm. Supposedly the most powerful being ever to exist. I think he is supposed to have killed Galactus and all the Watchers and conquered the entire Marvel universe.
 
Silicon Surfer said:
Yeah, Hyperstorm. Supposedly the most powerful being ever to exist. I think he is supposed to have killed Galactus and all the Watchers and conquered the entire Marvel universe.

I thought Galactus ate him?
 
Mistress Gluon said:
If you were to apply the laws of physics, several super hero's just really couldn't exist. Or really just exist at most levels.
Case in point, the Flash, or any other super speedster. Once you start accelerating, the only way for your atoms to hold together is to start absorbing energy around themselves. (Though most people think they just absorb gluons) But that creates a problem, since all atoms and structures have activation energies that make "windows." Basically putting they change their form, or create new forms. The Flash, if he were moving at say 30% the speed of light, would probably just be a floating mass of several super heated gasses, and would never reach the plasma stage, since he probably wouldn't last long enough. Same with Superman, or any other myriad of speedsters. And I won't use the infinite energy/mass theory here. But the same problem goes with energy wielders. Human Torch, when really powered up, would destroy his own mass, turning himself into gas, and there's a good chance Superman, being the nearly unlimited Solar battery he sometimes seems to be, would do the same just by standing in the sun. (Though chances are the energy build up eventually just cuts off at a natural point in all truth.) Now, superstrength could go around, since it kind of depends on the atomic bond structure to determine the actual durability of the mass at hand. Lifting tons of weight is something skin could never stand up to, obviously, but certain metals can.
As for low level energy beams, such as Cyclop's eye beams. Those sorts of energies exist. Red Sun energy is so much cooler than yellow sun energy. True, if it could melt steel, it SHOULD melt his head. Unless he had an errosive energy source close to, or part of, him that decreases heavy amounts of heat energy. Of course, his eye beams may simply charge atoms that it comes into contact with and fills them quickly to activation energies. But then, of course, he really shouldn't be able to hold that power since it would do the same thing to him. As for the recoil? Laser has near zero recoil. The "pressure" you feel from high end light sort of things, are really more like chemical composition change. Lightning would have little force, if it didn't change the air into plasma on the way down. You basically turn on light, light comes out, goes in one direction massless with little to zero recoil (measuring something that small is near impossible, so it's just assumed that light gives nigh none recoil force, though it's still there), and light just dissapates. (Let me restate that. Light GIVES recoil is small small quantities to atoms that have greater energy than the initial photon. Or else the photon is unresponsibe, and bounces without transfer of energy, so no recoil. So only bigger atoms gain "recoil" and that's only because they absorb the photons and just ALMOST continue the course, but since they're stronger than the initial photon, they just stray back. Hence recoil.) Lasers give pressure only because of the heat that's generated. The photons in lasers don't hurt you, the heat generated from the influx of photons into your atoms does.
Invisible Woman. Has to be refractive light structures. But really, I doubt you can move massless objects with your mind. Fundamental forces of the universe are only subject to it's corresponding nature. Photons (representative massless particle governing electromagnetic activity) are only attracted (for the most part) to electromagnetic sources. Unless, of course, that it started with a propellent force strong enough to send it in one or more directions. It's also repelled by it's own force. That's why light can be refracted or contained in a single room. (Turn on flashlight in room, it doesn't go through the wall.) But really, since it can't be slowed down or sped up, that lends to the idea that it can't be moved physically. So it's kind of... hard to say that she literally refracts light around herself. That would be more like... bending fabrics around yourself so that the space you occupy is so small, relatively, that you just seem invisible. But then you get into the whole invisible shield things and such, which lends to telekinesis, and I won't even go there. THAT'S a whole other issue to be discussed about.
Someone said the Vision I believe. He flat out DOESN'T work. You'd literally have to become smaller than sub particles, and unaffected by the four fundamental forces of the universe to be able to pass through solid objects. Or at least have enough energy in your atoms to simply overpower them. So, no. Vision just doesn't work.
Vibranium. A mass that can just absorb and dispel energy. If it did that, it couldn't really hold to itself, since the vibrational properties it has would just destabilize, and if something hit it, it would most likely bust up it's bonds. So yeah, one clump, but weak as crap in thought. OR, if it's vibrational properties just strengthen it's bonds (which would be most likely really) it just would be a REALLY hard piece of metal.
Captain America couldn't exist. But this has been covered in threads probably a billion times over by now.
Someone mentioned falling, so that's cool.
Hulk, or any other characters like him. The only CONCIEVABLE way, is that they pull in "Free roam" particles, that never gained any form, and he somehow reconnected them to create his mass. Though it would require such a ridiculous amount of particles, that he'd probably demolish something to do it at all, or cause things to explode as atoms broke apart as he stole particles from them. Mass conservation, pure and simple. Hulk is fun, he just couldn't exist. Question said that Ultimate Hulk is more likely. And while Ultimate Hulk is hungry immediately, and Question insinuated this, so I'm just restating it, Ultimate Hulk still couldn't work.
Nightcrawler. This is where the whole quantum physics thing REALLY gets into play. If string theory is true, he may just become out of tune, temporarily pulling his space, and the space of another dimension, into phase, and switching places. This would circumvent mass and energy conservation, and explain how he teleports. So if he's "strumming" around the "strings" he could concievably move at speeds that seem like teleporting when he comes back into vibrational sequence. So it wouldn't be miniwormholes, since he's technically not bending the "fabric" of reality to fold and match upon itself. And even if he did open them, the "holes" would be so small and short that it probably COULD only suck him in. But bending reality would require an immense amount of energy. The "suction power" of a black hole is directly proportional to it's size. Case in point, the man made particle sized one, it only drew particles toward it, and not even into it since it didn't last long enough. And it really didn't disturb it's "field" all that much. So Kurt making black holes isn't THAT far fetched. It's just the energy requirement. But it's more likely strings.
Magic. That would be outside of science. Or at least MAGIC magic would be. Such as making signs that breach dimensions and such. Since that really just breaks the laws of reality. If the fabric were that fragile, a kid who mumbles and draws circles would have destroyed Earth by now.
Though it's more biological. Healing characters. To heal quickly, they'd have to have the raw materials inside their body, and super fast cells that move several hundreds times normal cells. Basically, if they got their arm lobbed off, they NEED 45 lbs of material from another part of their body to fix it. I guess that's physics too, since it's a conservation thing. And someone mentioned Wolverine's bones. Veins and arteries move in and out of his bones. So unless they removed his skeleton, covered it, and did a bad job putting it back in, he's pretty safe in the blood cell department.
Vangard made a Spider Man thing. And I agree, except that it's most likely he sticks like most insects, via weak chemical residue bond. But through gloves? Or clothes? Doesn't happen. And his weight would probably bring down a few walls. Though not TOO many, since he's usually hanging off walls outdoors. It's just LANDING on them that gets me. If he flings himself up against most walls, that's a lot of concentrated force and mass hitting the wall.

Flight is loopy. Altering gravitons would require an immense energy source. It'd just be easier to say they used some form of anti graviton force. And they could empower it to just basically cause the graviton's superior energy to just thrust them places.

And... for now, I'm done.

Wow some of you are really really smart. All jokes aside this real world physics just sucks all the fun out of Superheroes and villians.
 
Silicon Surfer said:
Yeah, Hyperstorm. Supposedly the most powerful being ever to exist. I think he is supposed to have killed Galactus and all the Watchers and conquered the entire Marvel universe.


I don't know if Marvel has gone back to the Hyperstorm character, but the last I saw of him was when Galactus took him and used him as a food source. Hyperstorm was more powerful then galactus, but Galactus would drain the energy within him and use it to sustain himself before he could strike. It was said the two would be locked in enternal combat.
 
MJB said:
I don't know if Marvel has gone back to the Hyperstorm character, but the last I saw of him was when Galactus took him and used him as a power source. He was more powerful then galactus, but Galactus would drain the energy within him before he could strike. It was said the two would be locked in enternal combat.

But that obviously didn't happen. And Galactus is still eating planets. But I don't know a ton about Hyperstorm. From what I DO know, he'd most likely just go attack Earth again after getting free from Galactus. So I'm going to assume Galactus ate him.

MJB said:
Wow some of you are really really smart. All jokes aside this real world physics just sucks all the fun out of Superheroes and villians.

Yah. Real world physics would make the characters far less interesting on several levels.
 
Vanguard07 said:
Anyone read the Avengers/Jla crossover? Remember how Iron Man was talking about how they're different universes and the run on entirely different laws of physics?
I just assume that all this comic science is more of that.
None of their powers would work here but in their own universe science works differently.


Well said.
 
Mistress Gluon said:
That may not be necessarily true. Light has no mass, so when it runs into things, it can't really hit it all too hard. Or else the sun would lend this unrelenting butt kicking that would've destroyed the planets long ago. Especially Mercury.

But it is an interesting thought. But it's much more likely his beams are U.V. and use heat to supercharge atomic structures, and then overload them, effectively melting them.

Well, it has never been stated that Cyclops beam is pure light-based, just that it is a red beam of some sort. And since his optic blasts are concussive, there probably is mass to the beams, although probably miniscule but emitted at a very high velocity in order to make the recoil manageable.

If you put enough energy into atoms, one of three things happen. You separate and spread them off, cause them to melt, or blow up. And you really don't need heat to do it, just an energy acceptable to atomic structure (considered most forms of energy). Heat is a constant byproduct, and always the cause. Plus you cannot have any visible light production without heat. So his concussive force must be manipulating some form of energy, which produces heat, which feeds into atoms, which cause the reaction. Just low levels of heat. Red light is a lot less hot in comparison to all other forms of light. But this is if you're holding it to real world physics though. Comics just usually do whatever they want.

Yup. You ever read the issue where Wolverine survived a nuke, unscathed, with his pants on? I'd like to see them explain that one :eek:
 
D-scythe said:
Well, it has never been stated that Cyclops beam is pure light-based, just that it is a red beam of some sort. And since his optic blasts are concussive, there probably is mass to the beams, although probably miniscule but emitted at a very high velocity in order to make the recoil manageable.



Yup. You ever read the issue where Wolverine survived a nuke, unscathed, with his pants on? I'd like to see them explain that one :eek:

The pants are easy. They were made of Richard's unstable molecules.
 
Mistress Gluon said:
Don't sell yourself short. Understanding the basic principles of this stuff is considered hard work. Many world theory is usually under String Theory, but does have a place dealing with wave function theory on some levels. But it's more on coinciding frequency waves and such. But the anything possible? It's also thought by some scientists that if someone sat right next to a nuclear bomb, and it went off, they had to survive in at least one reality. lol

And via this process one could account for any Super power. (I.E. in one universe you can make every particle in your body move upwards, as if you are flying, or one could take up particles rom the Zero point field and use it for aditional mass , etc

Mistress Gluon said:
But since we don't know much about alternate realities, or anything at all really, or if they even exist, it's entirely possible.

Exactly , I think science is proposing the idea that the wave function allows particles to exist in all states at the same time (even the most improibable ones, like surving the nuke). Its hypothesised that via conscious observation we can 'collapse' these particles into their traditional point forrm. This suggest that consciousness may have an important some role to play in the workings of the universe (I.E. the moon does not exist traditionally, until something observes it), and that we could infact be latent reality warpers.

Mistress Gluon said:
But still, email me about that blackhole thing. lol

Sorry it was a mate who told me that, its possibly inaccurate. :)
 
yahman said:
And via this process one could account for any Super power. (I.E. in one universe you can make every particle in your body move upwards, as if you are flying, or one could take up particles rom the Zero point field and use it for aditional mass , etc

Well... making your particles move like that would require an ENORMOUS amount of energy. We're talking Galactus class energy for the most part. Maybe, maybe Silver Surfer. I mean to do this with proficiency without burning your power source out.



yahman said:
Exactly , I think science is proposing the idea that the wave function allows particles to exist in all states at the same time (even the most improibable ones, like surving the nuke). Its hypothesised that via conscious observation we can 'collapse' these particles into their traditional point forrm. This suggest that consciousness may have an important some role to play in the workings of the universe (I.E. the moon does not exist traditionally, until something observes it), and that we could infact be latent reality warpers.


Well, as for the multiple universe thing. I'm pretty sure that the laws of physics there would be similar if not identical to ours. Otherwise the multiverse itself would most likely crash and burn with all those conflicting rules layered upon one another. As for the moon not being there if we're not looking? I don't really believe in that, only because without the moon, no life on Earth would've ever existed.



yahman said:
Sorry it was a mate who told me that, its possibly inaccurate. :)

That sucks. x.x There was a theory I heard once that might have dealt with that, and I was hoping to collect more intel.
 
D-scythe said:
Well, it has never been stated that Cyclops beam is pure light-based, just that it is a red beam of some sort. And since his optic blasts are concussive, there probably is mass to the beams, although probably miniscule but emitted at a very high velocity in order to make the recoil manageable.

There should still be heat to it. Even if there's mass. All mass has heat (or else absolute zero would occur. Sure it might be really cold, but read on), especially if it's in rapid movement. Faster things go, more energy they have to collect. More energy it collects, the hotter it gets. The best solution (real world) is that it's just low level red light beams that could be absorbed through the U.V. spectrum, since it deals in really low heat emissions.

Case in point, when Earth "dies" from the sun. The conditions will be that the sun turns into a Red Giant, giving off very little solar heat. The only reason Earth won't be frozen (though so much colder) is that it's just really close to the sun. If we had been a million or so more miles away, Earth would be a frozen wasteland in the future due to the lack of energy.



D-scythe said:
Yup. You ever read the issue where Wolverine survived a nuke, unscathed, with his pants on? I'd like to see them explain that one :eek:

Simple. Laws of Physics, Hidden Text!!! Wolverine will survive all things no matter what. First presented by Oppenheimer in 1932.

Or they're in that one single dimension where Wolverine survives the blast. lol Oh Quantum Immortality, how you make me cry myself to sleep with this.
 

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