The Astonishing Spider-Man

[PhotoJones]

So, in your eyes, every series that becomes a mini despite said character sometimes having up to 3 ongoings is totally justified as a mini.

When this project debuts, there will have been one Spider-Man ongoing for some time. You know this.

I'd rather some of those stories, if appropriate, got told in the ongoings. But that's been a personal quibble for a while.

And honestly, there's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes, a mini is appropriate. Are you saying Daredevil: Yellow, Spider-Man: Blue or Hulk: Gray should have just been jammed into their respective ongoings? I don't. And Marvel has told stories within the ongoings that could have been their own minis. The most recent example of that would be Loeb and Bianchi's 6 issue run on Wolverine. Totally could've been a mini, but it wasn't.

The point is, we don't know what this is about. Therefore, we can't say what it should or should not have been. I can't stress that enough. It's common sense to me.

I'll give a good example; SPIDER-MAN BREAKOUT. It was a decent mini and I enjoyed it, but there was utterly no reason it couldn't have been a run in one of his ongoings other than ASM which was doing some damned thing. JMS was even having Spidey hang out with his New Avengers teammates in ASM so it would have fit for one of his side titles (and Spidey almost always has 2). The only reason it wasn't was because in a way the U-Foes and the criminals had more focus than Spider-Man, but the title was his so it would sell and because he was in it.

I didn't read Spider-Man: Breakout, but I'll take your word for it.

I mean if it is some out of continuity thing, then it is okay. But sometimes that ratio is 50/50.

So what if it is in continuity? That doesn't mean it's present day. How can a book that's in continuity, but not meant to be current be "clogging the racks"?

I grow wary of franchises being overextended. The slicing of 3 Spidey ongoings into one merged one was an idea that showed a sense of wanting to reduce the overextension, I just don't want to see a repeat of min's being thrown out just to have X amount of ____ books in a given month.

Dude. It's one miniseries. I mean, this book and Amazing Spider-Man will make two 616 Spidey books. That's less than a lot of other franchises. The X-Men with still have three core books, with two minor books and that's not even counting two Wolverine books (not to mention New Avengers) and whatever Deadpool/Cable will become; the Avengers will have two core books with with one minor book and Captain America, Ms. Marvel and Iron Man ongoings. Not to mention the fact that Tony Stark stars in every goddamn book Marvel puts out; hell, even Iron Fist will be starring in two books. Oh, and don't forget about Annihilation. That's one of your beloved events, but I've never seen you complain about saturation on that front.

That's why I think it's a tad silly to ***** about two Spider-books, one of which is a 6 issue mini. This is definitely a case of "wait and see".

 

[Dread]

When this project debuts, there will have been one Spider-Man ongoing for some time. You know this.

Yeah.

And honestly, there's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes, a mini is appropriate. Are you saying Daredevil: Yellow, Spider-Man: Blue or Hulk: Gray should have just been jammed into their respective ongoings? I don't. And Marvel has told stories within the ongoings that could have been their own minis. The most recent example of that would be Loeb and Bianchi's 6 issue run on Wolverine. Totally could've been a mini, but it wasn't.

Yeah, that Loeb/Bianchi story should have been a mini, because it was sheer garbage. The art was the only halfway decent factor. It was an exercise in being lost trying to add to backstory and coming up with a turd.

Admittedly, I failed to explain my point properly. By "in continuity", I also meant flashback stories. That is, a story taking place about a character in the past, like Daredevil: Yellow. I didn't make that clear and so that's my error. Stories like that, or in the future like THE END are fine for mini's.

You're also ridiculously optimistic about Loeb, considering he hasn't written anything as good as his "color coded series" in years. Some writers can produce a handful of good stories once and then produce mediocrity or feces foreverafter, and fans will still show up and expect the greatness. After a while, I get used to the current feces. I'm wacky like that.

The point is, we don't know what this is about. Therefore, we can't say what it should or should not have been. I can't stress that enough. It's common sense to me.

Common sense creates boring message board conversations. Think about it; If I'd said, "I'll wait and see", we wouldn't be having any discussion, and this topic'd hit Page 3 in a day.

I didn't read Spider-Man: Breakout, but I'll take your word for it.

Yeah.

So what if it is in continuity? That doesn't mean it's present day. How can a book that's in continuity, but not meant to be current be "clogging the racks"?

Again, I also meant stories that take place in alternate time periods as fine for mini's. I neglected to mention that clearly in my last post, so that's my error. Those sort of stories are fine for mini's, and in fact can only work as mini's.

Dude. It's one miniseries. I mean, this book and Amazing Spider-Man will make two 616 Spidey books. That's less than a lot of other franchises. The X-Men with still have three core books, with two minor books and that's not even counting two Wolverine books (not to mention New Avengers) and whatever Deadpool/Cable will become; the Avengers will have two core books with with one minor book and Captain America, Ms. Marvel and Iron Man ongoings. Not to mention the fact that Tony Stark stars in every goddamn book Marvel puts out; hell, even Iron Fist will be starring in two books. Oh, and don't forget about Annihilation. That's one of your beloved events, but I've never seen you complain about saturation on that front.

That's why I think it's a tad silly to ***** about two Spider-books, one of which is a 6 issue mini. This is definitely a case of "wait and see".

Oh, believe you me, I hate the overexposure and overloading of X-MEN and AVENGERS titles too. They just aren't in this topic. Hopefully if the ASM merge works, it'll be done with X-MEN. The AVENGERS are harder because they encompass the whole MU.

Of course I don't complain about ANNIHILATION. I like it and no one complains about stuff they like. Why do you use that to score cheap points? I love that about message board debates, things people like are used against them like weapons. Going to throw X-MEN: FIRST CLASS in my face next? That's yet another worthless X-Book in the grand scheme of things. No wonder there are types of posters who profess to hate everything. Dare enjoy something and people will go, "Oh, yeah? Well, you can't complain about ____ because you like ____ and being a hypocrite means you are never correct about anything and your opinion is worthless, even though every human being on the face of the Earth is a hypocrite about stuff they like."

I just was professing a point about overexposure of a franchise, especially since Spider-Man was the poster child of that in the 90's. Yes, DC is worse with Superman and Batman (both alway seem to have 4+ ongoings, plus 2-3 JLA titles), but I get sick of it, and was just using this to profess that point. Marvel should be wary of overdoing franchises. It caused the X-line to tank in sales for a bit and MARVEL ZOMBIES will eventually run it's course.

Fine. I'm sure this series will be 100% wonderful, and I'll...."wait and see". Now all discussion will cease.

 

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, that Loeb/Bianchi story should have been a mini, because it was sheer garbage. The art was the only halfway decent factor. It was an exercise in being lost trying to add to backstory and coming up with a turd.

Ha! I'm officially the only person ever to have liked it. I wear it on my sleeve. I'm a sucker for characterization, and Loeb gives that to me in spades.

Admittedly, I failed to explain my point properly. By "in continuity", I also meant flashback stories. That is, a story taking place about a character in the past, like Daredevil: Yellow. I didn't make that clear and so that's my error. Stories like that, or in the future like THE END are fine for mini's.

Cool.

You're also ridiculously optimistic about Loeb, considering he hasn't written anything as good as his "color coded series" in years. Some writers can produce a handful of good stories once and then produce mediocrity or feces foreverafter, and fans will still show up and expect the greatness. After a while, I get used to the current feces. I'm wacky like that.

And you're ridiculously pessimistic about, well, everything. To each his own. But Loeb's talent (or lack thereof) is beside the point. Like I mentioned, I liked his Wolverine story, and about half of Fallen Son. Other than those two things, I don't recall anything he's done for Marvel lately.

Common sense creates boring message board conversations. Think about it; If I'd said, "I'll wait and see", we wouldn't be having any discussion, and this topic'd hit Page 3 in a day.

What's that supposed to mean? You take stances for the hell of it?

Of course I don't complain about ANNIHILATION. I like it and no one complains about stuff they like. Why do you use that to score cheap points? I love that about message board debates, things people like are used against them like weapons. Going to throw X-MEN: FIRST CLASS in my face next? That's yet another worthless X-Book in the grand scheme of things. No wonder there are types of posters who profess to hate everything. Dare enjoy something and people will go, "Oh, yeah? Well, you can't complain about ____ because you like ____ and being a hypocrite means you are never correct about anything and your opinion is worthless, even though every human being on the face of the Earth is a hypocrite about stuff they like."

Cool your jets, man. It's not meant as a personal attack, but it is meant as a personal example. And I don't read X-Men: First Class, but I can understand how it fits and how there's not another X-book doing what it's doing.

Annihilation (or AC, for that matter) was a great example and remains so. It's what? Twenty-five issues? Nothing that couldn't have been told in a 12 issue series, really. But why was it expanded to such great numbers? Because there's more you can tell. Is it needed? No. Is it still enjoyable? Hell, yeah.

Fine. I'm sure this series will be 100% wonderful, and I'll...."wait and see". Now all discussion will cease.

I wasn't snarky. Why do you have to be? I'm claiming this project is going to be the end all, be all of Spidey tales but I am saying that some things work better as a miniseries, then crammed into an ongoing title. You know this; you agreed with me on this. All I was initially doing was pointing out that you jumped the gun in ranting about how this another needless, waste of paper. If you don't like the creators, fine. But that's not the angle you took. You choose to assume the unknown, and that always leads to making yourself look like a giant ass.

Oops. I guess that was snarky.

 

[Dread]

Ha! I'm officially the only person ever to have liked it. I wear it on my sleeve. I'm a sucker for characterization, and Loeb gives that to me in spades.

I understand that, but there is a point where even the best characterization is worthless against a furiously bad story. In a way it reminds me of Whedon on ASTONISHING X-MEN or JMS on ASM. Characterization? Usually good. Stories? Downhill, with time. Eventually one drags on the other. Least for me.

And you're ridiculously pessimistic about, well, everything. To each his own. But Loeb's talent (or lack thereof) is beside the point. Like I mentioned, I liked his Wolverine story, and about half of Fallen Son. Other than those two things, I don't recall anything he's done for Marvel lately.

I'm ridiculously pessimistic about 90% of things. I thought I'd made that abundantly clear in my tenure at SHH. Very few books gain the status where I blindly gush about them. And when I do, one should know how good it is.

What's that supposed to mean? You take stances for the hell of it?

The oppurtunity arose where I could express a point about overexposing a franchise especially after Marvel is taking steps to scale back. I took it.

Cool your jets, man. It's not meant as a personal attack, but it is meant as a personal example. And I don't read X-Men: First Class, but I can understand how it fits and how there's not another X-book doing what it's doing.

I almost used JACK MURDOCK as a "personal example" in my last post, but felt it was too low-blow to do the exact same thing.

In essence, XM:FC serves as a Marvel Adventures X-MEN while providing some silver age superhero stories with the original X-Men cast. In terms of the line, it offers nothing meaningful. But it's fun so I like it. Everything X is usually so melodramatic but that never is.

Annihilation (or AC, for that matter) was a great example and remains so. It's what? Twenty-five issues? Nothing that couldn't have been told in a 12 issue series, really. But why was it expanded to such great numbers? Because there's more you can tell. Is it needed? No. Is it still enjoyable? Hell, yeah.

Your point is taste is subjective. And?

ANNIHILATION CONQUEST and the ilk involve a bunch of characters, not just one. Plus, the nature of an event is to spread things out from multiple perspectives before bringing them together. They are all mini's or ongoings marching to the same drum in the same story. It is not the same as a merged ongoing with lord knows how many mini's all about the same character and all in seperate directions, or as X-Men/Batman/Superman are, multiple ongoings that aren't connected unless for shameless crossover.

I wasn't snarky. Why do you have to be? I'm [NOT] claiming this project is going to be the end all, be all of Spidey tales but I am saying that some things work better as a miniseries, then crammed into an ongoing title. You know this; you agreed with me on this. All I was initially doing was pointing out that you jumped the gun in ranting about how this another needless, waste of paper. If you don't like the creators, fine. But that's not the angle you took. You choose to assume the unknown, and that always leads to making yourself look like a giant ass.

Oops. I guess that was snarky.

I added the word you neglected and didn't mock you for it. Not bad for "a giant ass".

Fans always assume a writer's past work will reflect on their current work. Much as a director's past films are used to gauge a current one, or how anyone estimates the possibility of future success. Hence why anything Millar & Hitch will be mocked for lateness before the first issue ships, and why anything Bendis writes can be predicted with 70% accuracy. I was merely doing likewise.

I will say Loeb isn't nearly as bipolar in terms of quality as Bendis. His works are either all good, mediocre, or bad. Bendis, on the other hand, can touch all three within one issue and that always makes me want to tear hair from my scalp.

Fact of the matter is many mini's aren't essential reading. They're there to be fun, or as an ego vehicle, or to rip off another work, or to provide something the current titles don't, or to provide another franchise product in a low ship week, or a combination. The Spider-Man books are finally being merged in an attempt to peel back on excess and I would hate for that controversial move to be undone by a parade of mini's or whatnot that may have easily just been another title. That's all. I didn't mention worse offenders because this topic isn't about them.

 

[PhotoJones]

I understand that, but there is a point where even the best characterization is worthless against a furiously bad story. In a way it reminds me of Whedon on ASTONISHING X-MEN or JMS on ASM. Characterization? Usually good. Stories? Downhill, with time. Eventually one drags on the other. Least for me.

No, I hear you on that. AXM wears a little thin only because this story has been going on for about a year. I'm over it. That said, when each issue comes out, I like it. Cassaday and good characterization are a win-win for me.

I'm ridiculously pessimistic about 90% of things. I thought I'd made that abundantly clear in my tenure at SHH. Very few books gain the status where I blindly gush about them. And when I do, one should know how good it is.

And I'm not ashamed to admit when I like something that's universally panned.

The opportunity arose where I could express a point about overexposing a franchise especially after Marvel is taking steps to scale back. I took it.

Still, is one ongoing and one mini really overexposure? I think not.

I almost used JACK MURDOCK as a "personal example" in my last post, but felt it was too low-blow to do the exact same thing.

Since when are citing examples of personal tastes low blows? You act like I came to your home and kicked your dog. Battlin' Jack Murdock is a great mini so far. It's a book that could only be told in a mini. How were you going to turn that against me, so to speak?

In essence, XM:FC serves as a Marvel Adventures X-MEN while providing some silver age superhero stories with the original X-Men cast. In terms of the line, it offers nothing meaningful. But it's fun so I like it. Everything X is usually so melodramatic but that never is.

I know...that's basically my view on it as well.

Your point is taste is subjective. And?

My point is that you really don't have a point. For the last friggin' time, it's not about art. Do you know how I know it's not about art? Because there is none. Not yet. And that's the point. You wanna talk about how bloated and misguided Loeb's script is going to be? Cool. Wait until you hear a plot synopsis, at least.

ANNIHILATION CONQUEST and the ilk involve a bunch of characters, not just one. Plus, the nature of an event is to spread things out from multiple perspectives before bringing them together. They are all mini's or ongoings marching to the same drum in the same story. It is not the same as a merged ongoing with lord knows how many mini's all about the same character and all in seperate directions, or as X-Men/Batman/Superman are, multiple ongoings that aren't connected unless for shameless crossover.

Alright.

I added the word you neglected and didn't mock you for it. Not bad for "a giant ass".

And I corrected your misspelling of "opportunity". We're even.

Fans always assume a writer's past work will reflect on their current work. Much as a director's past films are used to gauge a current one, or how anyone estimates the possibility of future success. Hence why anything Millar & Hitch will be mocked for lateness before the first issue ships, and why anything Bendis writes can be predicted with 70% accuracy. I was merely doing likewise.

Let me break this down. Basically what you're saying is that you were saying that we shouldn't judge a book by it's creator because a lot of good creators tend to put out a lot of bad stories after a time. Okay, I'll agree with that; just look at Claremont.

The problem is that that wasn't what you were doing. You were bashing a book for being unneeded before you know what it's about. I'm not taking personal offense to that, just trying to point out that it's a little silly.

The only way your statement above and your statements previously can coexist is if you're trying to say the Loeb's stories all pointless pieces of overexposure. Is that what you're trying to say?

I will say Loeb isn't nearly as bipolar in terms of quality as Bendis. His works are either all good, mediocre, or bad. Bendis, on the other hand, can touch all three within one issue and that always makes me want to tear hair from my scalp.

Fact of the matter is many mini's aren't essential reading. They're there to be fun, or as an ego vehicle, or to rip off another work, or to provide something the current titles don't, or to provide another franchise product in a low ship week, or a combination. The Spider-Man books are finally being merged in an attempt to peel back on excess and I would hate for that controversial move to be undone by a parade of mini's or whatnot that may have easily just been another title. That's all. I didn't mention worse offenders because this topic isn't about them.

Exactly. Minis, a lot of the time, are there to be fun. Maybe that's what this project is. Maybe it's fun. You like fun. You like Invincible and Ant-Man and First Class and MODOK's 11. Fun is you Dread. Embrace the fun.

If that's what it is.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Aaaah, it's another Dread/random other person quote-fest!

 

[PhotoJones]

Aaaah, it's another Dread/random other person quote-fest!

Quiet, you!

 

[Dread]

No, I hear you on that. AXM wears a little thin only because this story has been going on for about a year. I'm over it. That said, when each issue comes out, I like it. Cassaday and good characterization are a win-win for me.

Each issue is far from being garbage to me, but it hasn't been so good to justify it shipping quarterly. Plus, I am on X-Men vs. Aliens overload. I never want to see that story again unless it is, like, top of the class good. This ain't it.

And I'm not ashamed to admit when I like something that's universally panned.

I think the last book I bought that was universally panned was THE INTIMATES from Wildstorm (it was co-created by Jim Lee but by the end even he didn't want credit for it). Lord, do I regret buying those issues now.

Still, is one ongoing and one mini really overexposure? I think not.

Your point is I overreacted without much evidence. Mine was raising a point about Marvel being counter-productive if this is a sign of things to come. Think that establishes it.

Since when are citing examples of personal tastes low blows? You act like I came to your home and kicked your dog. Battlin' Jack Murdock is a great mini so far. It's a book that could only be told in a mini. How were you going to turn that against me, so to speak?

Citing personal tastes are low blows when you use them against someone's point. Like if someone goes, "I have overexposed franchises", and the other person goes, "You like Batman and don't complain he has like 7 books, shaddup." That is essentially what you did with ANNIHILATION, trying to claim that because I don't complain about possible overexposure or too many titles/mini's with one property, I therefore lose any right to complain about it with ANY property. Which is ridiculously unfair because EVERYONE makes exceptions for **** they like. Everyone. Even you.

My point is that you really don't have a point. For the last friggin' time, it's not about art. Do you know how I know it's not about art? Because there is none. Not yet. And that's the point. You wanna talk about how bloated and misguided Loeb's script is going to be? Cool. Wait until you hear a plot synopsis, at least.

I think you've gotten on my case when I have done this before with some other topic or title, because this feels like deje vu.

And I corrected your misspelling of "opportunity". We're even.

I bet you sat there, scanning my post for the slightest wrong spelling.

Let me break this down. Basically what you're saying is that you were saying that we shouldn't judge a book by it's creator because a lot of good creators tend to put out a lot of bad stories after a time. Okay, I'll agree with that; just look at Claremont.

The problem is that that wasn't what you were doing. You were bashing a book for being unneeded before you know what it's about. I'm not taking personal offense to that, just trying to point out that it's a little silly.

The only way your statement above and your statements previously can coexist is if you're trying to say the Loeb's stories all pointless pieces of overexposure. Is that what you're trying to say?

No, and you know that. I was making a point that throwing out a mini about Spider-Man just after they condense 3 titles into 1 starts to hint of being counterproductive if they want all Spider-Titles to be under the same heading and march to the same drum to tighten up the line, which is something the X-Line has needed for the last couple of years. If this mini is a sign of more to come then I don't know why they are condensing if there will always be some 2-3 Spider books a month. That was my point.

But while we're at it, Loeb has been in a bit of a "slump" for a while. Not as bad as some, but not better than others. So far what I have read of him recently does not justify his A-List status. I mean, he wrote ONSLAUGHT REBORN for chrissakes, and that's criminally bad just when I flip through it on the rack to kill a few seconds before my bus.

Exactly. Minis, a lot of the time, are there to be fun. Maybe that's what this project is. Maybe it's fun. You like fun. You like Invincible and Ant-Man and First Class and MODOK's 11. Fun is you Dread. Embrace the fun.

If that's what it is.

I'm never about fun. That's why I'm single.

I just realized that after all this, I now absolutely can't ever read or enjoy this mini when it comes out. Then I'll REALLY look silly. Almost as silly as I'll look whenever I read that Cap Omnibus, coming out soon. I mean, I am pretty much betting I'll enjoy it despite the Return of Bucky. If it is only half as good as IMMORTAL IRON FIST is, I'll like it.

Aaaah, it's another Dread/random other person quote-fest!

They happen sometimes. I apologize.

 

[Darthphere]

I liked our last quote fest Dread. We weren't arguing.

 

[Dread]

I liked our last quote fest Dread. We weren't arguing.

Yeah.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah....lets argue about something this is boring.

 

[deemar325]

Wassup

 

[venom892]

To tell you th truth I don't care how many Spidey or X-Comics are on shelfs as long they are good.For Example I enjoyed the first issue of Spider-man/Red Sonja.

 

[deemar325]

Each issue is far from being garbage to me, but it hasn't been so good to justify it shipping quarterly. Plus, I am on X-Men vs. Aliens overload. I never want to see that story again unless it is, like, top of the class good. This ain't it.



I think the last book I bought that was universally panned was THE INTIMATES from Wildstorm (it was co-created by Jim Lee but by the end even he didn't want credit for it). Lord, do I regret buying those issues now.



Your point is I overreacted without much evidence. Mine was raising a point about Marvel being counter-productive if this is a sign of things to come. Think that establishes it.



Citing personal tastes are low blows when you use them against someone's point. Like if someone goes, "I have overexposed franchises", and the other person goes, "You like Batman and don't complain he has like 7 books, shaddup." That is essentially what you did with ANNIHILATION, trying to claim that because I don't complain about possible overexposure or too many titles/mini's with one property, I therefore lose any right to complain about it with ANY property. Which is ridiculously unfair because EVERYONE makes exceptions for **** they like. Everyone. Even you.



I think you've gotten on my case when I have done this before with some other topic or title, because this feels like deje vu.



I bet you sat there, scanning my post for the slightest wrong spelling.



No, and you know that. I was making a point that throwing out a mini about Spider-Man just after they condense 3 titles into 1 starts to hint of being counterproductive if they want all Spider-Titles to be under the same heading and march to the same drum to tighten up the line, which is something the X-Line has needed for the last couple of years. If this mini is a sign of more to come then I don't know why they are condensing if there will always be some 2-3 Spider books a month. That was my point.

But while we're at it, Loeb has been in a bit of a "slump" for a while. Not as bad as some, but not better than others. So far what I have read of him recently does not justify his A-List status. I mean, he wrote ONSLAUGHT REBORN for chrissakes, and that's criminally bad just when I flip through it on the rack to kill a few seconds before my bus.



I'm never about fun. That's why I'm single.

I just realized that after all this, I now absolutely can't ever read or enjoy this mini when it comes out. Then I'll REALLY look silly. Almost as silly as I'll look whenever I read that Cap Omnibus, coming out soon. I mean, I am pretty much betting I'll enjoy it despite the Return of Bucky. If it is only half as good as IMMORTAL IRON FIST is, I'll like it.



They happen sometimes. I apologize.

I don't mind the J.Campbell mini hopefully with 2 years to draw it it'll come out in time.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

To tell you th truth I don't care how many Spidey or X-Comics are on shelfs as long they are good.For Example I enjoyed the first issue of Spider-man/Red Sonja.

Hahaha wow I cant believe you just admitted that

 

[PhotoJones]

Each issue is far from being garbage to me, but it hasn't been so good to justify it shipping quarterly. Plus, I am on X-Men vs. Aliens overload. I never want to see that story again unless it is, like, top of the class good. This ain't it.

True. But it's not nearly as bad as Brubaker's first Uncanny X-Men arc. Actually, that arc may not have been that bad. I just couldn't get past the first issue, what with Xavier gathering a bunch of C-list mutants and telling them they're going to steal a spaceship. Pass.

I think the last book I bought that was universally panned was THE INTIMATES from Wildstorm (it was co-created by Jim Lee but by the end even he didn't want credit for it). Lord, do I regret buying those issues now.

"The Intimates"? I don't even know what that is...

Your point is I overreacted without much evidence. Mine was raising a point about Marvel being counter-productive if this is a sign of things to come. Think that establishes it.

The key word there is "if" (I highlighted it for you). If is an unknown. You say yes, I say I'll wait. That establishes it.

Citing personal tastes are low blows when you use them against someone's point. Like if someone goes, "I have overexposed franchises", and the other person goes, "You like Batman and don't complain he has like 7 books, shaddup." That is essentially what you did with ANNIHILATION, trying to claim that because I don't complain about possible overexposure or too many titles/mini's with one property, I therefore lose any right to complain about it with ANY property. Which is ridiculously unfair because EVERYONE makes exceptions for **** they like. Everyone. Even you.

This is where you go completely off the road. And crash. I'm not trying to make you into an idiot. Of course there are exceptions. There always are. I'm trying to get you to see my point. Which is something everyone does. Everyone. Even you.

I think you've gotten on my case when I have done this before with some other topic or title, because this feels like deje vu.

Probably.

I bet you sat there, scanning my post for the slightest wrong spelling.

Please. That word is one that should jump out to anyone when it's misspelled. I wasn't going to make a comment at all until I got down to your snarky little comment. Like I said: Even Stevens.

No, and you know that. I was making a point that throwing out a mini about Spider-Man just after they condense 3 titles into 1 starts to hint of being counterproductive if they want all Spider-Titles to be under the same heading and march to the same drum to tighten up the line, which is something the X-Line has needed for the last couple of years. If this mini is a sign of more to come then I don't know why they are condensing if there will always be some 2-3 Spider books a month. That was my point.

There's that word again, "if". You speculate, I respond to it. That's how we got here.

But while we're at it, Loeb has been in a bit of a "slump" for a while. Not as bad as some, but not better than others. So far what I have read of him recently does not justify his A-List status. I mean, he wrote ONSLAUGHT REBORN for chrissakes, and that's criminally bad just when I flip through it on the rack to kill a few seconds before my bus.

Yeah, I forgot about that mini. I obviously didn't bother with it, but can only imagine the depths it sinks too. I'm not disagreeing that writers go through slumps. All I said about Loeb is that I still like a lot of his stuff.

I'm never about fun. That's why I'm single.

I just realized that after all this, I now absolutely can't ever read or enjoy this mini when it comes out. Then I'll REALLY look silly. Almost as silly as I'll look whenever I read that Cap Omnibus, coming out soon. I mean, I am pretty much betting I'll enjoy it despite the Return of Bucky. If it is only half as good as IMMORTAL IRON FIST is, I'll like it.

Well, that's what happens when you make ridiculous statements as if they're based on some concrete evidence. That said, I'm never one to laugh and point when someone enjoys a comic book they didn't think they would. I love these damn things, and the more people reading, the better. Besides, half the people that would make you eat crow wouldn't have even thought of it if you hadn't brought it up in the first place. Why self inflict such abuse, friend?

 

[Dread]

Yeah....lets argue about something this is boring.

Heh, let's not go fishing for it. Eventually we are bound to disagree about something. Patience is a virtue.

To tell you th truth I don't care how many Spidey or X-Comics are on shelfs as long they are good.For Example I enjoyed the first issue of Spider-man/Red Sonja.

Touche'. Admittedly, 'Ringo's last work, SPIDER-MAN & THE FANTASTIC FOUR, really didn't add much to either franchise and essentially operated independent of what either book had been doing for about 1-2 years (or whenever Waid's run ended). But it was simple fun with energetic art, so it was fine. Shame it fell out of the Top 100 sales around when 'Ringo passed.

I don't mind the J.Campbell mini hopefully with 2 years to draw it it'll come out in time.

Yeah, he definitely is one of those formerly hot 90's artists who became better known for lateness and thus has something to either prove or disprove. He was never as bad as "took four years to complete 9 issues of BATTLE CHASERS that ended in a cliffhanger" Joe Mad, but somewhat close. If not for that, DANGER GIRL as a franchise may've been bigger. Not like it was top of the line, but just saying.

 

[Dread]

True. But it's not nearly as bad as Brubaker's first Uncanny X-Men arc. Actually, that arc may not have been that bad. I just couldn't get past the first issue, what with Xavier gathering a bunch of C-list mutants and telling them they're going to steal a spaceship. Pass.

Or as bad as his DEADLY GENESIS was. The solicts spoiled it, it had massive retcons, the worthless sacrifice of Banshee, the umpteenth "Xavier does something rotten and evil that was in no way in vogue until Mark Millar had him act creepy for 3 years of ULTIMATE X-MEN", and a villain in Vulcan that Brubaker and his editors obviously think highly of, but is essentially a stock god-moder whose actions become more and more erratic. Just read any of the Handbook bio's on major X-Characters to see how retcons have mangled once simple backstories, and tell me the X-Men need more of them. Forge the future, not the past. But that is the biggest problem with the X-Men, they've argueably spent a decade imitating the Claremont days and Morrison's attempt to bring real change, albeit in a fast-forward, scorched earth way, was met with such a reversal that few will dare to be that bold. Add to that, Bendis' M-Day has sucked all the life out of the X-Line. But, now I am on a tangent...

"The Intimates"? I don't even know what that is...

Be fortunate.

The key word there is "if" (I highlighted it for you). If is an unknown. You say yes, I say I'll wait. That establishes it.

Fine.

This is where you go completely off the road. And crash. I'm not trying to make you into an idiot. Of course there are exceptions. There always are. I'm trying to get you to see my point. Which is something everyone does. Everyone. Even you.

You're being snarky again.

Please. That word is one that should jump out to anyone when it's misspelled. I wasn't going to make a comment at all until I got down to your snarky little comment. Like I said: Even Stevens.

I was being snarky.

There's that word again, "if". You speculate, I respond to it. That's how we got here.

And go 'round and 'round in circles.

Yeah, I forgot about that mini. I obviously didn't bother with it, but can only imagine the depths it sinks too. I'm not disagreeing that writers go through slumps. All I said about Loeb is that I still like a lot of his stuff.

To each their own. I've learned that in real life, pessimism is usually more likely than optimism. This naturally bleeds off into comics, where there has been plenty to make anyone cynical. In some ways the most cynical of us are, or were, some of the biggest fans. Just sometimes I get the sense you'd like to see more positive energy flow into some of these message board topics, but that just doesn't happen. Look at some of the topics where everyone loves the comic. They sit idle for weeks and get bumped maybe twice a month. But something like a Bendis book, where you have lovers and haters, and it never leaves Page 1. It's the nature of fans most times. Why do you think THE SIMPSON's Comic Book Guy is such a reliable satire? It isn't because of his weight.

Well, that's what happens when you make ridiculous statements as if they're based on some concrete evidence. That said, I'm never one to laugh and point when someone enjoys a comic book they didn't think they would. I love these damn things, and the more people reading, the better. Besides, half the people that would make you eat crow wouldn't have even thought of it if you hadn't brought it up in the first place. Why self inflict such abuse, friend?

You're like a woman, trying to "fix" me. There are a few posters who have long memories when it comes to trying to humilate others, and we all know a few. I will wait for the day I give some review or statement and some jackass will go, "You bashed the Bucky Return and Brubaker in like 12 posts and now you love it, so shut the hell up!", and I'll hate him because he'll be right. In the grand scheme of things, its no big deal, but depending on the day it can set me off, considering I have chosen to go into a high stress profession. Believe it or not I actually like comics for the escapism.

We live in a world where being reliable is confused with being infallible. That is one of the reasons, besides ego, that most people will almost kill themselves rather than admit an error. I try to be better than that but most times I fail anyway to human hubris and then hate myself for it because I "know better". My persona here is essentially being a well knowledged and experienced, as well as bitter, comic book fan. Disproved too many times and I'll become a clown, something to laugh at; we all know posters like that too, who try to be serious but whose opinions have fallen into logical decay and just act as phantoms to laugh at.

I'll admit some of my statements were jumping the gun, but I wouldn't call some of the concerns "ridiculous". But, whatever, apples and oranges. I think we've both said what we had to.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I'm with venom. I don't care how many titles Spider-Man or X-Men or hell even Avengers (though only two Avengers titles are what I'd call super good) have multiple ongoings going on at once as long as they are all good stories and have characters I enjoy in them. That counts solo X-Character titles (Wolverine, Emma Frost, Mystique, Jubilee, Nightcrawler, etc., etc.)

 

[PhotoJones]

Or as bad as his DEADLY GENESIS was. The solicts spoiled it, it had massive retcons, the worthless sacrifice of Banshee, the umpteenth "Xavier does something rotten and evil that was in no way in vogue until Mark Millar had him act creepy for 3 years of ULTIMATE X-MEN", and a villain in Vulcan that Brubaker and his editors obviously think highly of, but is essentially a stock god-moder whose actions become more and more erratic. Just read any of the Handbook bio's on major X-Characters to see how retcons have mangled once simple backstories, and tell me the X-Men need more of them. Forge the future, not the past. But that is the biggest problem with the X-Men, they've argueably spent a decade imitating the Claremont days and Morrison's attempt to bring real change, albeit in a fast-forward, scorched earth way, was met with such a reversal that few will dare to be that bold. Add to that, Bendis' M-Day has sucked all the life out of the X-Line. But, now I am on a tangent...

Tangent or not, I fully agree.

To each their own. I've learned that in real life, pessimism is usually more likely than optimism. This naturally bleeds off into comics, where there has been plenty to make anyone cynical. In some ways the most cynical of us are, or were, some of the biggest fans. Just sometimes I get the sense you'd like to see more positive energy flow into some of these message board topics, but that just doesn't happen. Look at some of the topics where everyone loves the comic. They sit idle for weeks and get bumped maybe twice a month. But something like a Bendis book, where you have lovers and haters, and it never leaves Page 1. It's the nature of fans most times. Why do you think THE SIMPSON's Comic Book Guy is such a reliable satire? It isn't because of his weight.

If it sucks, rag on it. If it's great praise it. If it's speculation, think on it. You and I both speculate wildly on this board, and we should be prepared to explain why we think the way we do, and for the most I think we're pretty good at that. This time, you made some predictions, and I made you stand behind them.

You're like a woman, trying to "fix" me.

I'll admit some of my statements were jumping the gun, but I wouldn't call some of the concerns "ridiculous". But, whatever, apples and oranges. I think we've both said what we had to.

Exactly.

 

[venom892]

Hahaha wow I cant believe you just admitted that

I did.I'm not ashamed to admit it.t:

 

[SpideyInATree]

Cool news here. I was wondering whatever happened to this project. I remember reading about it in Wizard EONS ago and they even had some J. Scott Campbell sketches of MJ, Gwen, and Harry Osborn.

Man, what's up with the Jeph Loeb hate around here? Hit or miss? When the HELL has Loeb been hit or miss? To me he's usually one of the rare writers in the business who is consistently on the money. And the last Spider-Man project that Loeb did was Spider-Man: Blue and that is a classic.

And considering that Loeb likes to work with Peter's past and understands the Spider-Man continuity very well, I see only good things coming to this. Campbell's artwork is very lively and perfect for a Spider-Man title.

I'm definitely looking forward to this whenever it hits the shelves. I would be disappointed about this because I was always under the impression that these guys were taking over Amazing but with the announcement that Dan Slott and Steve McNiven are the first team after JMS...I can DEFINITELY live with Loeb and Campbell doing a mini. t:

 

[Harlekin]

Loeb's been pretty hit and miss since the first arc of Superman/Batman. Since then, he has an occasional gem, but most of the stories he's written since then have been mediocre.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Superman/Batman shocked me with how bad it was. Loeb's been going downhill ever since. He bounced back a little for those Death of Captain America one-shots--especially the Hawkeye one--but overall his stories haven't been very good of late.

 

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, Superman/Batman shocked me with how bad it was. Loeb's been going downhill ever since. He bounced back a little for those Death of Captain America one-shots--especially the Hawkeye one--but overall his stories haven't been very good of late.

You really didn't like Superman/Batman? Not ever the first arc?