The Atlas Shrugged Thread

[SuBe]

I just picked it up. Has anyone Read it before, want to discuss it?

 

[adhokk7]

I am a huge fan of both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. I'm not sure which one I enjoyed more. The Fountainhead was less politically transparent and a better story, but taking Atlas Shrugged as a vehicle for Rand's philosophies, it was quite compelling as well. Good stuff.

 

[michephantom]

Yeah, I read it a few years ago. I really liked it, and was thinking about reading it again. All these big corporations nowadays going bankrupt and needing government handouts made me think of this book. It is kind about capitolism versus socialism, having people work hard and not take handouts versus people slacking off and asking for help. Worth versus worthlessness. What inspired you to read it? I think I originally read it because there was a scholarship contest where you had to write an essay about Atlas Shrugged...

It's a pretty longand complex novel, and I love good long novels (keeps me entertained longer). I think it was selfish and irresponsible for all of the geniuses in the world to go into hiding. Abandoning the world so that it will collapse and you can create a new one to your own liking? Many people probably starved because of what they did.

One thing I can remember about the book was I'd be proud to wear Reardon's metal bracelet.

 

[adhokk7]

What inspired you to read it? I think I originally read it because there was a scholarship contest where you had to write an essay about Atlas Shrugged...

It's a pretty longand complex novel, and I love good long novels (keeps me entertained longer). I think it was selfish and irresponsible for all of the geniuses in the world to go into hiding. Abandoning the world so that it will collapse and you can create a new one to your own liking? Many people probably starved because of what they did.

I read it for the scholarship contest as well. Small world, huh?

As to your point about the geniuses going into hiding, Rand contends that selfishness is a virtue. In her philosophy, no one is responsible for anyone else unless they agree to be responsible for someone else. It was selfish for the titans to withdraw from the world and take what was theirs with them, but it wasn't irresponsible because they hadn't agreed to be responsible for anyone but themselves. It was actually an act of heroism, given that it was done in response to tyrants who were, essentially, trying to enslave Galt and the others. That's the way I saw it at least.

 

[SuBe]

I wanted to pick this up because of everything going on in the News and Politics today. I feel our Individuality and Freedoms are being taken over by the Government, and Success is being Punished, and Failure is being rewarded. It's interesting to me that the arguments from the Left vs the Right haven't changed much over the many years.

 

[michephantom]

I read it for the scholarship contest as well. Small world, huh?

As to your point about the geniuses going into hiding, Rand contends that selfishness is a virtue. In her philosophy, no one is responsible for anyone else unless they agree to be responsible for someone else. It was selfish for the titans to withdraw from the world and take what was theirs with them, but it wasn't irresponsible because they hadn't agreed to be responsible for anyone but themselves. It was actually an act of heroism, given that it was done in response to tyrants who were, essentially, trying to enslave Galt and the others. That's the way I saw it at least.

You can't be heroic and selfish at the same time. A hero puts other's needs above his/her own. Also, as an owner of a corpration, I suppose one has to take responsibility for the employees. Maybe three quarters of the company's employees are lazy empty-minded people, but it still leaves a quarter of the good employees out of work, especially those who sacrificed for the company. Those who had families to support and worked har at their job would be at a total loss when their boss leaves because of idealogical problems.

One thing Ayn gets wrong is that selfishness is not the prime enzyme for a productive company but competiveness and good morals. The CEOs who take huge bonuses while companies sink can be called selfish. If they were also competitive with other companies, desired to create the best, cheapest product without cheating, then we might not have this current problem with the economy. But that's probably a small part of the problem and it's probably too complicated for me to understand.

Did you win the scholarship? (I never finished the essay).

 

[adhokk7]

Did you win the scholarship? (I never finished the essay).

I never even started the essay because it took me way too long to read the book. Plus, it seemed to me, after reading the book, that accepting a scholarship for college instead of paying for college out of your own pocket was so anti-Rand that I wanted no part of it anyway.

 

[michephantom]

I never even started the essay because it took me way too long to read the book. Plus, it seemed to me, after reading the book, that accepting a scholarship for college instead of paying for college out of your own pocket was so anti-Rand that I wanted no part of it anyway.

Uh...oh...jeez, you're right. Mabey they never read the book!

...Losing brain cells... how do you spell maybe? Oh, right.

 

[SuBe]

I never even started the essay because it took me way too long to read the book. Plus, it seemed to me, after reading the book, that accepting a scholarship for college instead of paying for college out of your own pocket was so anti-Rand that I wanted no part of it anyway.

I haven't read the Book yet, but I know a little bit about Objectivism, but isn't Private Donations for Scholarships completely different that the Government Seizing money from the Private Sector through Police Force and then giving Scholarships to students more in line with Objectivism and therefore more Randian?

 

[adhokk7]

I haven't read the Book yet, but I know a little bit about Objectivism, but isn't Private Donations for Scholarships completely different that the Government Seizing money from the Private Sector through Police Force and then giving Scholarships to students more in line with Objectivism and therefore more Randian?

Yes, but your point defeats the humor of my joke.

 

[SuBe]

It does because I have no humor.

 

[adhokk7]

It does because I have no humor.

That's okay. Anyone who supports the Fairtax is still cool with me.

 

[SuBe]

Word.

 

[Logan's Runt]

You can't be heroic and selfish at the same time. A hero puts other's needs above his/her own. Also, as an owner of a corpration, I suppose one has to take responsibility for the employees. Maybe three quarters of the company's employees are lazy empty-minded people, but it still leaves a quarter of the good employees out of work, especially those who sacrificed for the company. Those who had families to support and worked har at their job would be at a total loss when their boss leaves because of idealogical problems.

One thing Ayn gets wrong is that selfishness is not the prime enzyme for a productive company but competiveness and good morals. The CEOs who take huge bonuses while companies sink can be called selfish. If they were also competitive with other companies, desired to create the best, cheapest product without cheating, then we might not have this current problem with the economy. But that's probably a small part of the problem and it's probably too complicated for me to understand.

Did you win the scholarship? (I never finished the essay).

You missed the point of the book entirely.

 

[Paradoxium]

Thinking of giving it a more clearer re-read. Her prose and flesch is... argh. But adhokk7 nailed it, Atlas Shrugged is more about the philosophic ideas, the better Rand story is Fountainhead.

You probably get a better idea of what I mean now when I keep saying John Galt'ing in the Political Forums SuBe t:

Checky this article by Stephen Moore, written for the Wall Street Journal.

 

[SuBe]

I've read about it on Wikipedia, when you mentioned it, and I read John Galt's Speech. That's what made me pick up the Book. I'm already reading two books, and as soon as I finish one of them, I'll start this.

I'm also on the Verge of reading 1984 again for some reason. I'm mentally preparing myself.

 

[PLAS]

interestingly enough, just this morning I was doing some research on early 20th century history and I bumped into some Rand references, thought it would be an interesting read and decided to check it out
and then I find a thread about it here
odd

 

[SuBe]

http://io9.com/5167528/economic-crisis-pushes-people-to-buy-ayn-rand-novel


Economic Crisis Pushes People to Buy Ayn Rand Novel

 

[ross2287]

Who is John Galt?

Spoiler

 

[Miester]

I remember reading this back in high school. It's kind of hard to recall what the book was really about, but I remember my teaching telling us that Ayn Rand focused on the strengths of people and always tried the Hero in her books to be close to perfect. I think she was also very Anti-Government, but I don't really remember a lot.

In Old School, a novel by Tobias Wolf, Ayn Rand is a character. Old School is about these kids trying to learn how to be writers, and on occasion Famous Writers would visit them. Ayn Rand made an appearance, but I felt she was really criticized by Tobias Wolff.

 

[DBella]

I read it for the scholarship contest as well. Small world, huh?

As to your point about the geniuses going into hiding, Rand contends that selfishness is a virtue. In her philosophy, no one is responsible for anyone else unless they agree to be responsible for someone else. It was selfish for the titans to withdraw from the world and take what was theirs with them, but it wasn't irresponsible because they hadn't agreed to be responsible for anyone but themselves. It was actually an act of heroism, given that it was done in response to tyrants who were, essentially, trying to enslave Galt and the others. That's the way I saw it at least.

I've not read Atlas Shrugged although I HAVE been searching my local libraries for it. I did enjoy ANTHEM very much though and if ATLAS SHRUGGED or FOUNTAINHEAD is as good, I'll just buy them if my searched at local libraries continue to fail me.

Bolded part: That's what I got from reading ANTHEM about her philosoply although that book is more about the importance of "individuality". I guess to some, having an individualistic attitude can be seen as "selfishness". But yes, it seems to be that she does see that attribute as a virtue and I think she made some good arguments for it.

 

[adhokk7]

I just picked it up. Has anyone Read it before, want to discuss it?

Just wondering if you've gotten around to reading it yet, SuBe. I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on it.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Read it once--took me a full year to get through the damn thing.

From what I've read of Rand, her theories on individual liberty rings true to me, but her economic philosophies seem partly to blame for the economic crisis we have today.