The Batsuit Master Thread

[Llama_Shepherd]

I have yet to see a cool Black and Grey suit yet... So, it is not really what is used today.

Since the DC Relaunch, black and grey has been the colour scheme, so there is roughly 40 comics to choose from.

And the same problems that happened back in the late 30's with color and shadows in the comic's, happens with film today. Especially with the switching to the digital and red camera's.

Bob "Kane".. only came out and said that it was always meant to be black after Bob Ringwood and Vin wanted to propose the idea. Bob Kane liked the idea.. and said.. "oh.. well it is the way we intended to do it in the first place."

I think that a really dark shade of blue with a dark grey would work. And having color instead of just black would allow some of the forms to show as well.

Well then in that case, they had better keep Bruce's blue hair too then:

 

[Mr. Finger]

Since the DC Relaunch, black and grey has been the colour scheme, so there is roughly 40 comics to choose from

I am aware... and trust me... The Black and Grey "IS" my preferred look. The first time I saw "Year One" at my local "book" store in the early '80's.. It was like "YES!" And the pages from Miller's "DKR" as well. While they were still one shot's not put in to a "graphic" novel yet.

I was speaking in terms of "film" interpretations when I mentioned not seeing it done well yet.

But i also think that the Neal Adams look would be cool to see. A year or two ago, I would have argued with my self about it. These days? I am thinking that it might work pretty well. It is the look and colors that I grew up with.

Who knows.. perhaps it's age? nostalgia?... It is an image that I haven't got to see fleshed out yet.

Superman did it with Christopher Reeve..
Spiderman has done it.. some day I just want to see the look of the Neal Adams one done in film. I know dark colors are cool, but the image when I got hooked on Batman as a kid was Neal Adams' artwork.

I do know that I would not like to see blue hair... point made.

The movie suit , to me , has not been nailed yet. There have been parts of various suits that I do like, but as a whole? not yet for me.

I just think that with the right film-maker behind it... one not so worried about "real" ... it would be cool. A different color palette to the whole film.
Perhaps like they did in "Watchmen"?

 

[Mr. Finger]

I'd prefer it over Spider-Man, as the Superman suit has chainmail, and therefore a semblance of protection for Batman.

chain-mail?... I wasn't aware that what we were... well... what was made was suppose to be chain-mail. I know it was an effect that the costume designer was going for.
Layers of material that are perforated over a colored muscle-suit. I thought it was about using color theory and the way that colors work together with translucency of materials over opaque materials to create the look with out relying on paint.. hmmmmm.

 

[darklord1967]

nicely put darklord1967...

Thanks pal. Greatly appreciated.

Darklord... You also mention a name that I'll give you props for... Mr. Bill Finger. Anyone who pretends to be a fan of this character, must know that name.

When the '89 film came out... I wanted to beat up Bob Cane... taking credit for all of the things that Finger contributed... and also taking credit for Jerry Robinson's work as well (Joker).

What Bob Cane came up with was crap... Bill Finger got rid of the colors... used the "Bat" motif.. added the cowl, the cave, the gadget's, the "alter" identity.. Just once I wanted to hear Bob Cane mention Bill Finger's name... just once... nope.

You just covered the basic theme of my upcoming school stage play
FATHERS OF THE DARK KNIGHT t:

 

[dushan]

I hope they make the cowl like this in the next movie

should be black

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I dont care for the super short ears.

 

[regwec]

Nor me- it's more Catman than Batman.

That cowl also has the usual problem that the neck is a single stiff piece. Nice otherwise, though.

 

[Majik1387]

The head is too fat as well.

 

[Bathead]

The head is too fat as well.

I agree, but I think longer ears would offset that by a good deal. Otherwise,a good sculpt.

 

[dushan]

I am not a fan of the two peace cowl. I like the one peace cowl
I know it give dificulty to move the neck, But this day and age they sure could find a way to make it work if they wanted to.

one peace cowl is iconic

you can see it in michael keaton batman cowl and batman forever panther suit cowl.

pluse it looks like it is from the comic book

 

[regwec]

A one-piece cowl is indeed preferable, but no one has yet found a way to do it in a way that looks satisfactory and offers the actor a good range of movement. The problem is that the mask, cranial and ears all need to be made from a rigid substance, and the neck needs to be flexible.

We could all come up with a design that shows just how we would like the thing to look, but the skill is in showing how it could be made to work as well.

 

[Mr. Finger]

The reason it hasn't been done yet, it that the right technicians have yet to get a shot at it... that, and the Director needs to want to see it...
Sorry Nolan... love your films, but I am not a fan of the "look" of Batman in your movies...

Their is a fine line between the firmness, and softness that needs to be achieved. Firm enough to not buckle or wrinkle funny. Firm enough to have the "look" of being made out of a hard material... but then soft enough for the neck area to allow flexibility... materials exist that can do the job... it's the technical side that would be very involved and complicated.

The first order of business is to design the core that will run the "Cowl"... and to have the proper modifications to the interior forms... as to allow for the neck area's thickness to be thinner from the inside.. but contain the forms from the outside that give the desired appearance..

To create the "mold" without a seam running down the back of the cowl,( as in the '89 Cowl )... for the end result to be smooth without a line down the back of the cowl , the "core" ( actors head ) needs to be created out of multiple pieces...
This WAS done for "Returns", "Forever", "B&R", and "Begins"...

But the core was an exact representation on the actors head, without the necessary modifications... To create a thinner thickness to the neck area to allow better movement? There has to be some plugs made... to create a void if you will...Then the plugs will have to be generated out of a different material and be much softer...

The problem?... To add the representation of the "plugs" to the already existing "collapsible" core... pain in the ass...

I know it is possible.. and it's a job that I have been waiting for a shot at.... I have created such things for other projects with success, just haven't had my shot at Batman's Cowl yet... can you say "dream job"?

Sorry if this reads too much on the technical side of things, but I know a thing or two on the subject at hand...
And I have been waiting... wanting the opportunity to do just that...

Materials have changed in the last few years as well... It can be done, just need to have the right people in the right place.

One thing about the 2 piece cowl, is that it allows the actor to more easily remove the cowl during the shoot.. in between takes...

The one piece cowls can be a pain in the ass to get over the head, especially with a thinner neck by design. As in appearance of the cowl itself.

It's going to get to a point where I'm just going to do it with my own money and design.. let's see what happens with the next film... and where they end up doing the work...

Or perhaps work with some one that wants to also achieve the same thing..
I think having the Cowl blend seamlessly in to the cape would be the hard part... but the cowl?... Time to get 'er done me thinks...
my apologies for the technical rant... but I keep waiting to see it done, and it's hard to not see it... listen to the reason why... knowing you have an idea that just... might... work...

Neal Adams Cowl... with full flexibility and little resistance around the neck... and yes... it can come in Black....

 

[DaveMoral]

I'm pretty sure the Nite Owl cowl had neck movement and it was a one peice. So how did that work?

 

[Mr. Finger]

good example.. that is an example of different tech's approaching the idea in a different way..

But that mold was made like the Batman '89 Cowl... it had a seam down the back... and "Night Owl" was not filmed from behind as much like the '89 cowl...

There are pics where you can see the seam down the back of the '89 cowl... not many pics that show the back of the "Night Owl" cowl...

With a seam in the mold, it makes it easier to "unwrap" the silicone mold off of the castings... the silicone was cut down the back to allow the "unwrapping". But it is hard to make the seam go away... especially when it has to be "flexed " so much to put it on over the actor's head... The seam will usually show up still... Also... "Night Owl" not having the tall ears makes it a lot easier to run and demold.. Batman's tall ears add a different challenge..

If the desired effect is to have a "smooth" back... with no seam... and be filmed from the back... Then the seam is something to avoid... as in all of the films done other than '89...

The problem is... with no seam.. then the mold is one piece with no "cut"... so the silicone can not be "unwrapped"... Imagine trying to pull your fist out of a whole the size of your wrist... it won't work...

So, that is where the inside has to come out in multiple pieces... the head is to big to be pulled down through the diameter of the neck...

These are all factors that go in to the pre-production thought process...
"Night Owl" was considering to go about it without a cut, but it was deemed that it would rarely be shown from the back... and if so... it would be very dark or very brief... as in the Batman '89... and the tech's that were available did not have the experience for the "collapsible" core..

I think that the nature of the Batman cowl would have to be seamless... especially because I think it would look really cool for the cowl to go down the back a little bit... over the shoulder blades a bit... almost like "89 and Returns, but without the scallops...

But good call on a good example DaveMoral...

"Night Owl" and "Batman '89 were done the same way... by cutting the mold. But by doing this, you do limit what the film-maker can do... because He will want to avoid filming the Cowl and having the line show up... The film-maker ends up shooting "around" the line... or keeping it dark...

Hope this crap isn't too far off of topic... it just happens to be something that I think about a lot... and hope to one day see... A Batman Cowl that "looks" the part.. and can "move" as well... not yet have I seen it...

 

[OP84CC82]

I heard someone say that they'd like to see a Batman costume done in leather like the Daredevil costume, and while I'm not against the idea, it makes little sense on it's own. And to be honest, I don't really want to see costumes being done in leather, pleather, or latex unless it's for a character like Catwoman who's supposed to be wearing some sort of fetishistic clothing. It doesn't really look that great.

 

[OP84CC82]

Uh, okay.

 

[Mr. Finger]

material does not need to be a literal thing... it can be an appearance thing as well...

I read and hear so many that say "sculpted foam latex" suits won't work for a bat suit... that they want to see a "fabricated" suit...

Like DaveMoral mention the Night Owl... I really liked the way that suit looked... it was textured.. agile... light weight... provided great mobility...

and it was done with the same materials as Batman Begins' suit...
It more about the artistic and technical approach rather then materials...
And foam can be made to "look" like leather as in Daredevil...

 

[OP84CC82]

material does not need to be a literal thing... it can be an appearance thing as well...

I read and hear so many that say "sculpted foam latex" suits won't work for a bat suit... that they want to see a "fabricated" suit...

Like DaveMoral mention the Night Owl... I really liked the way that suit looked... it was textured.. agile... light weight... provided great mobility...

and it was done with the same materials as Batman Begins' suit...
It more about the artistic and technical approach rather then materials...
And foam can be made to "look" like leather as in Daredevil...

Okay, okay. I really do like the Daredevil suit. But I don't see why Batman's costume would look like leather. I sorta mixed up my words back there. When referring to latex and pleather, I was sort of making a statement for materials that I would never want to see for a superhero costume, ever. Even Catwoman's costume in Batman Returns looked terrible to me. I'd rather have spandex or a similar material be used for skin tight costumes. It looks less like it's from a porn flick. That's why I'm glad Catwoman's in TDKR costume is made out of spandex. I'm not opposed to leather as a choice, I just don't know how it'd look on Batman.

 

[Mr. Finger]

perhaps the "material" would have something to do with the "era" in which the film takes place ?

If you do a period piece... say a Black and White film that was suppose to take place in the '30's or '40's... the "material" would kind of have to fit the time period.

When leather first become a material that was being used for protective clothing , as in motorcycle racing for example , it was because it had some advantages over other existing materials that were available.

So, perhaps that would be a reason that Batman would consider it ?...

I agree for the most part with you, and also about the "Cat" suits as well...

 

[TX85]

I prefer Batman with long ears But other than that I love those cowl in those pics,The blue version was a nice touch!!

 

[OP84CC82]

perhaps the "material" would have something to do with the "era" in which the film takes place ?

If you do a period piece... say a Black and White film that was suppose to take place in the '30's or '40's... the "material" would kind of have to fit the time period.

When leather first become a material that was being used for protective clothing , as in motorcycle racing for example , it was because it had some advantages over other existing materials that were available.

So, perhaps that would be a reason that Batman would consider it ?...

I agree for the most part with you, and also about the "Cat" suits as well...

Leather is protective? I mean, I like the idea of leather being used for a costume, even Batman, I just never really considered why he'd use it. But yeah, I don't like latex, even for a costume. It worked in Watchmen with Silk Specter but it was less glossy and had mostly yellow so, it worked. Catwoman's costume is usually black so...no. But personally, I'm not a fan of period pieces or films that bring clothing and cars from years ago into the modern day. It just doesn't appeal to me. I like my Batman gritty but not gothic or noir/pulp.

 

[Two-Face]

I prefer the a bit longer ears otherwise I like those picture

 

[Mr. Finger]

Leather is protective?

for it's day.. Aviator's in WW1 and WW2... motorcycle racers in the '40's, '50's , and 'to this present day...

Aviator's liked it due to it's durability, and protection against the Cold... it was also more durable against abrasive elements... like asphalt...

Can't compare with a Nomex suit though...

and as far as Cowl's... I'm a fan of the Long , Tall ears as well....

 

[OP84CC82]

for it's day.. Aviator's in WW1 and WW2... motorcycle racers in the '40's, '50's , and 'to this present day...

Aviator's liked it due to it's durability, and protection against the Cold... it was also more durable against abrasive elements... like asphalt...

Can't compare with a Nomex suit though...

and as far as Cowl's... I'm a fan of the Long , Tall ears as well....

Yeah, after thinking about it, I'm starting to like the idea of the Batsuit looking like a leathery material like Daredevil's outfit. Maybe as an alternative to a cloth costume or rubber costume.

 

[OP84CC82]

But as Mr. Finger suggested, I think a costume based on Niteowl's from the Watchmen movie would be great. Anyone know what it was made out of?