The Black Dahlia or Hollywoodland

[Movies205]

I disagree. This is a serious misconception. I happen to think that noir lapsed out for a while in the sixties, but the French continued making them, and in the 70s there was a serious revival of noir themes and aesthetics, with colour. What's more important to noir than black and white is the worldview. So, while it might not be considered pure noir, it CAN be noir. There are a lot of movies made post-classical period that have more noir philosophy at the core than some of the originals.

Incidentally, they DO have a term for noir inspired. Neo-Noir.

I like "Neo-Noir" because it makes a clearer distinction, I mean a Gangster Picture is not a Noir Film nor is simply a mystery, Noir is very specific, and genre influence other genres, etc etc, I just feel it pays a slight disrespect to take that large a body of work and lump it all together, so Neo-Noir is good.

 

[JLBats]

I like "Neo-Noir" because it makes a clearer distinction, I mean a Gangster Picture is not a Noir Film nor is simply a mystery, Noir is very specific, and genre influence other genres, etc etc, I just feel it pays a slight disrespect to take that large a body of work and lump it all together, so Neo-Noir is good.

To be fair, the film noir definition is very loose and subjective anyway. Some see it as a style, which would make it nearly infinite and impossible to kill. Others see it as a movement, like New Wave.

 

[Majik1387]

I vote Black Dahlia because I think it has a more interesting story and a better cast.

 

[DACrowe]

I think film noir is a rare breed of genre but it still exists in color. Such films as The French Connection and LA Confidential are undoubtedly film noir and for that matter two of the best the genre has ever offered. Both of these offer two new film noir entries about golden age Hollywood near its end and both look fascinating.

Noir-influenced that is not real would be Sin City, Blade Runner or Minority Report though.

 

[NJGooner]

I voted for Hollywoodland. It interests me more, and I know more about the story. Although I do plan to see both anyway.

 

[Cmill216]

On the subject of Noir, I bought a book on the subject a while back, and it has some really great thoughts in regards to how to define it:

Themes

The Haunted Past- "[Noir protagonists] are often escaping some past burden...fleeing their own demons created by ambiguous events buried in the past"

The Fatalistic Nightmare - "Events are linked like an unbreakable chain and lead inevitable to a heavily foreshadowed conclusion"


Archetypes

The Truth Seeker - "...primary goal is to navigate the convoluted maze of the noir universe to find a critical answer"

The Hunted - "He finds it difficult to connect with a universe which seems so ruled by chance, so inherently absurd."

The Femme Fatale - *no need for an explanation*


Visual Iconography

-Low key lighting
-Odd/low angles
-Moving camera/long takes
-Urban landscapes
-Flashback


Diction

-Hard bitten poetry
-Voice-over narration



So going by all of this, wouldn't you consider The Black Dahlia to fall strongly into the noir category?

 

[The Shape]

They both look great.

 

[JLBats]

On the subject of Noir, I bought a book on the subject a while back, and it has some really great thoughts in regards to how to define it:

Themes

The Haunted Past- "[Noir protagonists] are often escaping some past burden...fleeing their own demons created by ambiguous events buried in the past"

The Fatalistic Nightmare - "Events are linked like an unbreakable chain and lead inevitable to a heavily foreshadowed conclusion"


Archetypes

The Truth Seeker - "...primary goal is to navigate the convoluted maze of the noir universe to find a critical answer"

The Hunted - "He finds it difficult to connect with a universe which seems so ruled by chance, so inherently absurd."

The Femme Fatale - *no need for an explanation*


Visual Iconography

-Low key lighting
-Odd/low angles
-Moving camera/long takes
-Urban landscapes
-Flashback


Diction

-Hard bitten poetry
-Voice-over narration



So going by all of this, wouldn't you consider The Black Dahlia to fall strongly into the noir category?

It's funny, because a movie I'm doing next year that wasn't intended as a noir basically falls into all those categories.

 

[Bullseye]

Both of the films look incredible. I have to see both.

 

[Cmill216]

Oh, and as for the poll:

Black Dahlia

 

[Superman]

Hollywoodland, Can you guess why?

I've been reading up on the Black Dahlia case and I would love to see a movie based on her real life story than some made up story based on a novel.

Have any of you seen the pics of her body after they found her? Whoever did that wanted her dead in a bad way.

 

[MrScissorhands]

Have any of you seen the pics of her body after they found her? Whoever did that wanted her dead in a bad way.

I just Googled them. That's frikkin gruesome !

 

[Gordon Freeman]

Black Dhalia only confirms to me that Mia Kirshner is a Lesbian ( aint nothig wrong with that) But dag for a straight woman she typecast as a lesbian a lit ( L Word, 24, some random 2002 blockbuster movie I saw, this movie)

Was she a lesbian in Exotica?

Meh, who cares, she's hot.

And she'll take a dump on yer chest.

 

[Cyclops]

I dunno... one has Ben Affleck getting killed, while the other doesn't have Ben Affleck in it at all.

Hard choices indeed.

 

[HellOnEarth]

Do both these films come out at the same time or what?

Cause I'm gonna buy for one, and sneak in the other.

 

[HellOnEarth]

I mean, seriously, what's the difference between the two?

 

[Majik1387]

I mean, seriously, what's the difference between the two?

The Black Dahlia
The Black Dahlia (2006)
Hollywoodland
Hollywoodland (2006)

 

[The Last Meatbag]

Do any of you guys know the name of the song playing in the Black Dhalia trailer?

It's awesome

 

[Tempest19]

Looks like Hollywoodland wins this won critically by a landslide.

RT: Hollywoodland

RT: Black Dahlia

After seeing this I am extremely skeptical in BD (lower RT rating than Grid Iron Gang!!!)

 

[Rac]

I wan't to see them both, but TBD has Scarlett so...

 

[tzarinna]

That look both really good,but TBD has more of a draw for me.
Both are on my list of movies to see.

 

[Darth Elektra]

Both look great but Im looking forward to the Black Dahlia the most.

 

[Tempest19]

Somebody that has seen it- can you tell me if it's good or not? Because that RT rating is a little- off... because I had planned to see this and GridIron Gang, but now a little cautious.

 

[Crooklyn]

Somebody that has seen it- can you tell me if it's good or not? Because that RT rating is a little- off... because I had planned to see this and GridIron Gang, but now a little cautious.

Just saw it today. Imo, definitely no where near as bad as the critics are making it out to be. I liked it better than Hollywoodland.

 

[The Shape]

Just saw it today. Imo, definitely no where near as bad as the critics are making it out to be. I liked it better than Hollywoodland.

Good to know.