The Court of Owls Speculation Thread

[shauner111]

Yeah that’s what I mean. Combining the two for the movie universe and creating a different conclusion for it? Mint. F’n mint.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Reading Dark Knight, Dark City and.... Boy howdy, thank god Bruce didn't have a knife in the climax of The Dark Knight because he will straight up murder a dog.

Spoiler

LOL, well, TDK Bruce punched a dog off a 50-story building. Using a knife might have been more merciful.

 

[metaphysician]

My first order speculation is "Lordy, I hope the Court of Owls don't appear, they suck." I am not a fan, on multiple different levels.

My second order speculation is "But, if you *absolutely have* to do them, do them in a Civil War/Age of Ultron In-Name-Only style". Keep the idea of a conspiracy of corrupt powerful, but ditch basically everything else besides the name and perhaps the masks. Ditch the connection to the Waynes, and especially any of the stupid "Thomas Wayne was secretly evil" stuff. Ditch the undead assassins. Ditch the general idea of them being All Powerful and All Present. Re-imagine them as simply a slightly more punchable and theatrical take on the general idea of corruption in Gotham City. They are, in essence, a "training villain" for this newer, younger Batman.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah, I don't want undead assassins in this movie unless it ties into a broader superhero universe. I'm of the mindset that if Batman is going to be separate from Superman and everyone else, then you should go the Nolan route and emphasize the realism (yes, I know the Dark Knight Trilogy isn't all that realistic but no one has super powers in it). I'm not saying that they HAVE to go this route, but it's just what I would prefer. For whatever reason, if this is a standalone Batman universe, then I don't want supernatural powers being a part of it. I may change my mind about that but it's just how I feel right now.

Other than that though, I'm fine with the Owls making an appearance. I like creepy secret societies pulling all the strings but I do agree that they'll have to take steps to ensure that they don't just feel like another League of Shadows. Even though the Owls and the League had different motives and goals, that will have to be made pretty clear so that people won't just be like, "Wait, are these Liam Neeson's guys again?"

 

[metaphysician]

For me, the issue is not that they are supernatural. I would actually like more emphasis on the weirder and more superhuman elements of Batman's rogues gallery and mythos. Sure, Batman isn't superhuman, but he doesn't need to be to deal with such, because he's Doc Savage cosplaying as Dracula.

The issue is more that the Talons are part of an overall effort to try and make the Court of Owls into this giant Biggest Most Epic Batman Villain Ever. And it just doesn't work. Everything that they try to be, in terms of genre niche, was already filled by Ra's al Gul and the League of Assassins, 30+ years prior. What's more, for being a conspiracy, in Batman's own home turf, that he somehow didn't notice for decades of in-story time, it just makes Batman, the World's Greatest Detective, look incompetent. . . or rather, it makes the Court of Owls look lame, because when there is a clash between an icon and a johnny-come-lately, the icon wins.

 

[BobJM]

I like the Court. I’d be happy if they’re a one-and-done society villain that he faces in The Batman—supernatural or not (I don’t see this movie going supernatural, but then again this reminds me of Daredevil on Netflix and that show managed to add in some mystical elements/undead soldiers to a successful degree) or Batman could face the Court throughout the trilogy, as long as other villains are not shortchanged.

It’d be interesting to have Lincoln March or Simon Hurt introduced in this film or a sequel, on the sly, and then play off the big reveal that they are part of the Court.

 

[SKSpawn]

I'm not a big fan of the Court of Owls or how they have dominated Batman comics since being introduced. It just seemed like a whole mess of conspiracy and retroactive storytelling wedged into the Batman mythos that actually took more away from Batman than it added to it, for me.

Still, I see why they might be used in this new film and even the videogames; I can't image that The Batman will actually have undead assassins, though. Most likely it'll just be a legion of assassins who all dress and look the same to give the illusion of them being immortal.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm really interested to see the Court of Owls adapted for him, as I think they will tonally fit the direction of this movie really nicely and it seems like a no-brainer if you're going to be really digging into the history of corruption in Gotham and going down the rabbit hole to see how deep it goes.

My one reservation if they go there is I just hope it won't turn into too much of a "The Court is puppeteering everything, including Bruce Wayne's fate and mission", to the point where it robs Bruce of some of his agency. There is line it could cross there where it could start to feel a bit The Amazing Spider-Man-ish... "the untold story" of what your parents were really up to and how you're just a pawn in a bigger game.

That said, if that's sort of the direction it goes in, it will obviously depend on execution. It's a direction that feels a bit more at home for Batman than Spider-Man, since Bruce's parents were always a central part of the mythos whereas Peter's were certainly not. And conspiracy plots do fit nicer into a noir/mystery setting than whatever those ASM films were trying to be. I just hope it's done with some finesse and doesn't try to overly link EVERYTHING in the story. That can start to make the world feel smaller.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Reading Dark Knight, Dark City and.... Boy howdy, thank god Bruce didn't have a knife in the climax of The Dark Knight because he will straight up murder a dog.

Spoiler

haha when I read this, that took me by surprise. more so the use of the knife, even though bruce did kill a dog in TDK. That was a bit different though haha.

 

[BobJM]

I'm not a big fan of the Court of Owls or how they have dominated Batman comics since being introduced. It just seemed like a whole mess of conspiracy and retroactive storytelling wedged into the Batman mythos that actually took more away from Batman than it added to it, for me.

Still, I see why they might be used in this new film and even the videogames; I can't image that The Batman will actually have undead assassins, though. Most likely it'll just be a legion of assassins who all dress and look the same to give the illusion of them being immortal.

It might be beneficial then for The Batman to introduce The Court from the get-go so as to not retroactively go back and add to the mythos.

I do agree with another poster, however, that I don't want the conspiracy to rob Bruce of his or his mission's agency. I don't like when the Waynes were murdered--the randomness of the mugging and their death is always a bit more compelling to me from a narrative standpoint. However, go back a few generations like Bruce's great grandfather as they did in the comics (he 'went crazy' after warning Gothamites about the owls in his walls before he fell into an open manhole).

And lastly, for me, everything is on the table until this movie/creatives tell me otherwise. And i meant supernatural/sci-fi elements. I actually think undead assassins are somewhat tame for audiences nowadays. I think Daredevil on Netflix handled the integration of The Hand and its undead army rather well. It's just about execution. That also leaves an open door for Ra's and Lazarus Pits. Batman's other more outlandish rogues--Man-Bat, Killer Croc, or Clayface for example--can still be explained away with scientific jargon. Audiences are ready for fantastical elements with their Batman, just don't sacrifice story.

 

[shauner111]

Scientific jargon is the one thing I want them to avoid in this series. It’s just so exhausting and typical of this genre. If undead assassins or Lazarus pits exist, then just leave it a mystery. Stop with the explaining. I don’t need it. I’m sick of lab experiments too. Nothing bores me more.

I don’t mind if a LOT is connected through the Court. Not Joker or Two-Face etc. Not everything. But the Wayne’s? Politicians? Bankers? Hospitals? Orphanages? The mob? Riddler’s mission? Bring it on. Not every rogue in every movie needs to be connected but I like the idea of a massive city made to feel smaller. We need it after the DCEU and TDK trilogy.

 

[metaphysician]

It might be beneficial then for The Batman to introduce The Court from the get-go so as to not retroactively go back and add to the mythos.

I do agree with another poster, however, that I don't want the conspiracy to rob Bruce of his or his mission's agency. I don't like when the Waynes were murdered--the randomness of the mugging and their death is always a bit more compelling to me from a narrative standpoint. However, go back a few generations like Bruce's great grandfather as they did in the comics (he 'went crazy' after warning Gothamites about the owls in his walls before he fell into an open manhole).

And lastly, for me, everything is on the table until this movie/creatives tell me otherwise. And i meant supernatural/sci-fi elements. I actually think undead assassins are somewhat tame for audiences nowadays. I think Daredevil on Netflix handled the integration of The Hand and its undead army rather well. It's just about execution. That also leaves an open door for Ra's and Lazarus Pits. Batman's other more outlandish rogues--Man-Bat, Killer Croc, or Clayface for example--can still be explained away with scientific jargon. Audiences are ready for fantastical elements with their Batman, just don't sacrifice story.

Random thought: if they have to have the Court be present, and using some kind of undying Talon assassins. . . tie it in. Where did they get the ability to make these Talons? Simple, they made a deal with someone mysterious, someone who scared the crap out of them, but who was willing to grant them a few exotic resources in exchange for some kind of significant favor.

That mysterious someone, natch, is Ra's al Gul. And the Talon process is essentially a limited derivative of the Lazarus Pit alchemy. Thus you explain a "new" mythos addition by tying it into an established element, and you also establish a pecking order that diminishes the johnny-come-lately cheap heat.

 

[shauner111]

Wasn’t it Neal Adams that said he wanted the next movies to feature the Court of Owls and Ras Al Ghul? Maybe Reeves is listening lol.

Batman in year two, demolishes the Court of Owls. They secretly run Gotham and have been doing so for centuries. Once they’re gone, you don’t have to worry so much about the corruption beneath the surface anymore. But now Batman moves into the sequels and it’s all about the freaks on the surface who are now running Gotham. The end of something huge leads to a new era. At first you had bankers, politicians, gangsters, cops all puppets with their strings attached to the underground puppet masters. Once the strings have been severed...easy pickings for these new freaks that have been coming out of the woodwork since Batman. It’s like a line drawn in the sand. A before and after Batman’s entrance into Gotham.

You’ll start to see the effects of this in the second movie. Fully formed Catwoman and Penguin knocking off the remaining mobsters (it’s like what fans dreamt of after TDK). Plus Two-Face, Hugo Strange, Mad Hatter, Joker, Scarecrow etc. I’m hoping if it feels like the Arkham games once we get to the third movie. All out madness.