The Fermi Paradox

[Thundercrack85]

Pretty much.

I would also point out, much though I hate shows like Ancient Aliens, that ancient history is ripe with stories of beings from other worlds. So, it certainly is possible that aliens have been here – then saw what we were like – took some pictures, and went back to wherever they came from.

I mean, they're as likely to visit us three thousand years ago as they are today, right?

 

[Teelie]

Another facet I forgot to bring up is the probability of them finding us, a race that's barely even a blink in their comparative eyes to be noticed. The galaxy itself is massive, then you take that and look at the universe in its entirety. That they could find us or we find them is like someone seeing a particular blade of grass in a field the size of Texas and doing so from the other side of the planet.

There could be trillions upon trillions of alien races out there and none of them may ever encounter one another, let alone us.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

And 1/10th the speed of light is being modest for a reason. If intelligence life from the original set of earth-like planets achieved 1/10th LS, they would be very well known to us.

The assumption as Teelie pointed out is that they have a motive or will to colonize. And why wouldn't they? Resources. Survival.

My theory/hypothesis/whatever-you'd-prefer: it is difficult for intelligent life to emerge, but the galaxy is probably teaming with animals and plants.

 

[NickNitro]

Couldn't you argue though that a life force infinitley more advance than our race could have mapped out he Universe? Have advanced life detection protocol's?

I don't sleep on aliens visiting us in the past. They may have seen how primitive we were and decided that in a few thousand years, if we haven't destroyed ourselves by then, they'd come back, when we are more advanced.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Another facet I forgot to bring up is the probability of them finding us, a race that's barely even a blink in their comparative eyes to be noticed. The galaxy itself is massive, then you take that and look at the universe in its entirety. That they could find us or we find them is like someone seeing a particular blade of grass in a field the size of Texas and doing so from the other side of the planet.

There could be trillions upon trillions of alien races out there and none of them may ever encounter one another, let alone us.

Yes but I don't think we have to take the entire galaxy into account anymore. There may be civilizations down the interstellar road.

When Drake made his equation they didn't know there was an Earth sized planet in the closest neighboring star system. Granted that planet is uninhabitable, but it's still an amazing find. Earth-sized planets may not be rare at all.

That discovery would have blown Drake's mind.

 

[moviedoors]

And 1/10th the speed of light is being modest for a reason. If intelligence life from the original set of earth-like planets achieved 1/10th LS, they would be very well known to us.

The assumption as Teelie pointed out is that they have a motive or will to colonize. And why wouldn't they? Resources. Survival.

No, not necessarily. Again, assumptions on top of assumptions, no actual info, no reason to conclude we have negative proof.

 

[Teelie]

And 1/10th the speed of light is being modest for a reason. If intelligence life from the original set of earth-like planets achieved 1/10th LS, they would be very well known to us.

The assumption as Teelie pointed out is that they have a motive or will to colonize. And why wouldn't they? Resources. Survival.

It also assumes they have the same needs as us, or the desire to colonize or find resources in our area. Maybe they have a Federation-style restriction on contacting races below a certain level of technology.

Alien life could evolve from another method than our own we wouldn't recognize as well.

 

[Thundercrack85]

What are these resources you guys speak of?

What resources would warrant the expense of interstellar travel?

 

[moviedoors]

My theory/hypothesis/whatever-you'd-prefer: it is difficult for intelligent life to emerge, but the galaxy is probably teaming with animals and plants.

That does seem more likely.

 

[Teelie]

For us, it would be certain metals or minerals scarce on Earth. There are plenty of asteroids that are being eyed for mining as it is. In fact there's even an entire planet literally made of diamond.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

No, not necessarily. Again, assumptions on top of assumptions, no actual info, no reason to conclude we have negative proof.

It also assumes they have the same needs as us, or the desire to colonize or find resources in our area. Maybe they have a Federation-style restriction on contacting races below a certain level of technology.

Alien life could evolve from another method than our own we wouldn't recognize as well.

What reasons do you have for believing intelligent life would be so radically different from us as to stop requiring resources or at the very least not possess a desire to claim territory?

Moviedoors and Teelie are speculating. That's fine. I'm using humanity as a reference. I am making assumptions, yeah, but how exactly are they unfair?

 

[zeroapoc]

One thing about this that a read up on and does make me think.

At our CURRENT technology it would take us roughly 50 million years to colonize the entire galaxy. Sure that's a long time, but nothing geologically, let alone astronomically. With a nearly 14 billion year old universe, if life is out there, why hasn't this happened?

 

[Thundercrack85]

For us, it would be certain metals or minerals scarce on Earth. There are plenty of asteroids that are being eyed for mining as it is. In fact there's even an entire planet literally made of diamond.

That's the thing though, you can find those in asteroids.

I got a rather fascinating (and unsolicited I might add) lecture from an astrophysicist about how there is absolutely no logistical justification for interstellar trade.

 

[Teelie]

I didn't say they wouldn't require resources, I said they might require different ones and even then it doesn't mean they would venture out to this area of the galaxy.

What are the odds of them finding us here?

 

[Superwoman Prime]

What are these resources you guys speak of?

What resources would warrant the expense of interstellar travel?

Mineral ore for building is one that comes to mind.

Or even resources to help with interstellar travel.

We might say that advanced aliens would send robots to mine, but it's the same difference in this discussion.

 

[Thundercrack85]

On an interstellar level that wouldn't be very cost effective.

What you can find in terms of raw minerals in our Solar System, you can find easily enough in another star system.

Even rare elements would be cheaper to synthesize.

Here's a fun piece of trivia, there's gold on Mars. A **** load of it.

 

[jmc]

I've always loved this paradox because it really makes you think whether or not intelligent life does in fact have a natural use by date.

 

[Jekecy]

One thing about this that a read up on and does make me think.

At our CURRENT technology it would take us roughly 50 million years to colonize the entire galaxy. Sure that's a long time, but nothing geologically, let alone astronomically. With a nearly 14 billion year old universe, if life is out there, why hasn't this happened?

One of the saddest realizations someone brought up to me is the possibility we are the first of our kind, and there really is no other intelligent species out there. At least not for a long while.

I guess years of sci-fi just ingrained in me the notion that there was something out there, but rarely is it ever posed that we're the ones who start everything off.

 

[Thundercrack85]

One of the saddest realizations someone brought up to me is the possibility we are the first of our kind, and there really is no other intelligent species out there. At least not for a long while.

I guess years of sci-fi just ingrained in me the notion that there was something out there, but rarely is it ever posed that we're the ones who start everything off.

That does seem rather unlikely, given the age of the universe.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

That does seem more likely.

Especially when evolution seems to place little favor on our brand of intelligence. We use our new mammalian brains to make ourselves more comfortable, and to cling to survival. But we could all conceivably go extinct from a virus and its aftermath. Or climate change. Or whatever. Roaches and crocodiles might have a better chance than us.

 

[redhawk23]

Even if there were other forms of intelligent life in the Galaxy, there is no reason to assume that they would share the same cultural drive to explore and expand. Even if it was a matter of survival, there are plenty of subcultures just on our own planet that would welcome an event like the sun going nova or what have you.

If intelligent life developed in an ocean, under ice, would they ever really feel the need to develop flight? Would we have if not for animal examples that flight is even possible and own evolutionary history of living in trees?

The third Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy book features the hilarious example of a species who lived on a planet with eternal cloud cover and had never contemplated the possibility of leaving their planet, never having directly observed their own sun, or seen any other stars. They were quite perturbed once finally contacted and started a war out of frustration.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

On an interstellar level that wouldn't be very cost effective.

What you can find in terms of raw minerals in our Solar System, you can find easily enough in another star system.

Even rare elements would be cheaper to synthesize.

Here's a fun piece of trivia, there's gold on Mars. A **** load of it.

Good point.

 

[zeroapoc]

One of the saddest realizations someone brought up to me is the possibility we are the first of our kind, and there really is no other intelligent species out there. At least not for a long while.

I guess years of sci-fi just ingrained in me the notion that there was something out there, but rarely is it ever posed that we're the ones who start everything off.

Yeah but it would be really odd for us to be the first. Our solar system is only a third the age of the universe. You would think life would have started long before in older systems.

 

[Feenix]

It would be a colossal waste of space if we were the only "intelligent" life in the universe.

I love the idea of aliens and other worlds that we have yet to make contact with. Whatever else is out there, I hope they're cool.

Then again, I've read about the actual odds of there being intelligent life in space. It doesn't look good.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, perhaps I should amend that. I imagine there would be some "trade" at first, but only until the colonies become self-sustaining. But any trade from the colony to Earth would be limited.

I suppose it also depends on how quick interstellar travel is. My professor, discounted FTL transportation.

But he was mostly critiquing the movies that had aliens come to Earth for some silly reason, like they wanted the water, or some other resource you can easily find in space. And then that segued into interstellar trade.