The North Korean Situation

[Matt]

Bizarre article:

THE MYSTERY OF NORTH KOREAN FANS
By PETER WONACOTT


NELSPRUIT, South Africa — Following the world's most reclusive soccer team was never going to be an easy. But how hard could it be finding a few of North Korea's supporters?

Pretty hard, it turned out.

A supporter of the North Korea soccer team blows a vuvuzela before the first-round match against Brazil on June 15.
The World Cup spawns legions of soccer lovers. They hang around team hotels, gather in restaurants, debate in bars. They are seen wearing team colors, carrying a country's flag and clumping together in convoys to games.

But North Korean fan support is more complex. It was always going to be difficult generating attendance from a country where the government requires permits to travel beyond one's own town. There were even reports that North Korea had resorted to paying fans from China – a country with more liberal travel policies – to plump up its World Cup crowds.

And maybe rent-a-fans would be better than the real ones. In a 2005 World Cup qualifying loss to Iran, North Korean fans threw rocks and bottles at the Syrian referee, a shocking display of public disorder in such a tightly-controlled country. A subsequent "home" game for North Korea against Japan had to be moved to Bangkok, where the two teams played before an empty stadium closed to public view.

If there were die-hard North Korean supporters, they'd certainly be needed at Friday's game against Ivory Coast. After losses to Brazil and Portugal, North Korea had been eliminated from tournament's next round. The game was also in Nelspruit, one of the more remote World Cup venues.

I had three days to find these fans.

Wednesday, June 23
The search starts on a promising note. The national team hotel isn't difficult to find. If an isolated authoritarian regime wanted to plunk its soccer squad in the middle of South Africa, this would be the place – the four-star Protea Hotel Midrand, in an area between Johannesburg and Pretoria called "Half-way House." The hotel, draped in the flags of Democratic People's Republic of Korea, was sealed off by walls and gates and not within walking distance of much.

"That's why they picked us," reasoned a waiter in the hotel lobby coffee shop. "We are out in the middle of nowhere."

No fans in sight, though, only dour North Korean team officials lounging on couches ahead of a team training session. One waves me off as I sit down next to him. When I pose a question about the upcoming game, he gets up and walks out the hotel door.

The team files through the lobby. The young men wear red shorts and have legs like tree trunks. Quickly and quietly, they board a bus provided by World Cup sponsor Hyundai of South Korea, a country the North doesn't recognize.

Thursday, June 24
Since emails to the team's media officer bounce back, soccer governing body FIFA advises getting in touch with the team's foreign media liaison officer. He says there's a North Korean press conference in Nelspruit on Thursday afternoon. That's followed by a training session, in which the first 15 minutes are open to the media. Maybe some fans have arrived early to savor the final moments of North Korea's World Cup.

After all, these appearances are rare. The first and last time North Korea made it into the World Cup was 44 years ago in England. It enjoyed a miraculous run, advancing to the final 16 and upsetting Italy in the process.

At the press conference, North Korean head coach Kim Jong-hun promises national glory again – or at least less humiliation than last game's 7-0 thumping from Portugal.

"We are going to fight," Coach Kim vows. "We will try to restore our honor."

How about North Korean fans? Given that citizens can't freely travel to South Africa, could that affect crowd support and team performance? "Well, I don't think you are well-informed. We can travel abroad freely," he replies. "I think you have been misinformed."

Oh.

Coach Kim looks at his watch. Press conference over. He heads off to the training session and some of us follow. The training ground is half an hour away. When we arrive, it's after the 15 minutes allowed for media access. Stadium guards shoo us away. We complain. North Korea's foreign media liaison shrugs.

Out in the parking lot, there are twice as many police as North Korean players on the field. No fans.

Friday, June 25
It's Game Day.

For South Africa's World Cup hosts cities banking on a flood of soccer tourists, the North Korea-Ivory Coast match is looking problematic. The night before, the Nelspruit's chamber for business and tourism emailed more than 300 members asking whether any were hosting North Korean fans. Not a single reply.

"I am very worried, to be honest," confides chamber manager Kholeka Msane.

At Protea Hotel Nelspruit, more North Korean flags. More security. More dour officials in blue sweat suits, although this time they are lounging poolside. A jittery hotel manager approaches. No North Korean fans are staying here, she says. Media aren't allowed in the hotel, either.

"I'm going to have to ask you to leave," the manager says. "The team needs their privacy."

But what about the Chinese fans for North Korea? In an interview, Wang Qi of the China Sports Event Management, a state-owned enterprise that is organizing trips to South Africa's World Cup, says the reports are rubbish. The Chinese fans paid for their own tickets, he says, and they aren't necessarily rooting for North Korea.

The two Chinese soccer fans I spoke to by phone on their way to the Spain-Chile game certainly weren't acting as proxies for their eastern neighbors. And of course neither the Spanish nor Chilean governments paid for those tickets, either.

At the stadium, the crowd is a sea of orange for Ivory Coast and yellow South African soccer jerseys. Then a North Korean flag goes up at the opposite end of the stadium. It waves defiantly as the team warms up.

After a long walk around Mbombela Stadium, I reach the spot. The flag has disappeared. I look in vain for North Korean fans. There's one woman wearing a North Korean shirt.

It's Maggie Zhou, a 26-year old Chinese executive for an Australian company in Mozambique. She's rooting for all the Asian teams. Japan the previous night. North Korea tonight. All for fun. "The game should just be a game," she says.

North Korea could use more such supporters. They lose 3-0.

So weird.

 

[Marx]

I think the exact opposite.

Really?

 

[Scourge2099]

I think Hussein was far more powerful than Kim Jong Il could ever hope to be. Hussein may have had a tendency to do things for attention, but I think he was more than capable of backing up any statement he made.

Kim Jung Il has way more control over his people than Hussein or any other dictator in history did. They think of Kim Jung Il as a god over there. They teach North Korean children that the Great Leader makes the sun rise and bunch of other bulls***. He has people killed off if they write "Kim Jung Il has bad hair." or something equally dumb.

 

[Marx]

According to the AP, North Korea has executed a former cabinet member who was in charge of talks with South Korea by firing squad today. The reason for his execution - policy failure.

 

[Marx]

CLINTON: NEW SANCTIONS FOR NORTH KOREA
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...nctions-against-north-korea/?fbid=zYLpU4EsLjN

 

[Dr. Evil]

CLINTON: NEW SANCTIONS FOR NORTH KOREA
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...nctions-against-north-korea/?fbid=zYLpU4EsLjN

Other than China, where would they get arms from?

They're not Iran, in that they don't hide the fact that the have nuclear weapons.

 

[Marx]

I don't know...but how many more sanctions can really be put on North Korea!?!

 

[Raiden]

I don't know...but how many more sanctions can really be put on North Korea!?!

I agree, and sanctions won't stop China from trading with them, since China is their biggest trading partner. I'm not really sure what more U.S. can do against NK, and dropping bombs (which is a declaration of war) probably won't help, either.

 

[Hobgoblin]

According to the AP, North Korea has executed a former cabinet member who was in charge of talks with South Korea by firing squad today. The reason for his execution - policy failure.

Wow, the North really is run by a super villain.

 

[Marx]

Wow, the North really is run by a super villain.

Tell me about it man. Could you imagine that being the policy in this country? Policy failure = death by firing squad. There'd be no one left!

 

[Kelly]

So we could start over? Really?

 

[Hobgoblin]

Tell me about it man. Could you imagine that being the policy in this country? Policy failure = death by firing squad. There'd be no one left!

.....

A fresh start? All of the morons out of office? Kim might be on to something.

 

[Alastor]

Wow.

 

[Dr. Evil]

North Korea's football team has been shamed in a six-hour public inquisition and the team's coach has been accused of "betraying" the reclusive leader's heir apparent following their failure at the World Cup, according to reports.

The entire squad was forced onto a stage at the People's Palace of Culture and subjected to criticism from Pak Myong-chol, the sports minister, as 400 government officials, students and journalists watched.

The players were subjected to a "grand debate" on July 2 because they failed in their "ideological struggle" to succeed in South Africa, Radio Free Asia and South Korean media reported.

The team's coach, Kim Jong-hun, was reportedly forced to become a builder and has been expelled from the Workers' Party of Korea.

The coach was punished for "betraying" Kim Jong-un - one of Supreme Leader Kim Jong-il's sons and heir apparent.

The country, in its first World Cup since 1966, lost all three group games – including a 7-0 defeat to Portugal.

The broadcast of live games had been banned to avoid national embarrassment, but after the spirited 2-1 defeat to Brazil, state television made the Portugal game its first live sports broadcast ever.

Following ideological criticism, the players were then allegedly forced to blame the coach for their defeats.

Only two players avoided the inquisition - Japanese-born Jong Tae-se and An Yong-hak, who flew straight to Japan after the tournament.

However, media in South Korea said the players got off lightly by North Korean standards.

"In the past, North Korean athletes and coaches who performed badly were sent to prison camps," a South Korean intelligence source told the Chosun Ilbo newspaper.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...n-six-hour-public-inquiry-over-World-Cup.html

They got off pretty easy.

 

[Matt]

It is sad that an inquisition and being forced into labor is considered getting off easy.

 

[Franklin Richards]

They don't want him collecting unemployment.

 

[Figs]

Anyone else think Hillary Clinton should keep her ass out of this?

I just don't think she's the right person with her values and beliefs...

 

[Franklin Richards]

What are you talking about? What values and beliefs do you have a problem with?

 

[Figs]

What are you talking about? What values and beliefs do you have a problem with?

I don't know, i've never liked some of her views in politics. Honestly I don't really want to get into it since it will derail the thread and just cause arguing over political sides.

 

[Marx]

I'm surprised the North Korean players weren't beaten or killed.

 

[8wid]

[YT]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HG_yPSU4zS0&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HG_yPSU4zS0&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YT]

 

[hippie_hunter]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/09/world/asia/09boat.html?_r=1

 

[Grievous]

I'm surprised the North Korean players weren't beaten or killed.

I'm surprised the North Korean players did not try to escape when it was time to return home.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_re_as/as_china_north_korea_visit_3

BEIJING – A 13-year-old American boy who made a rare visit to Pyongyang says officials there welcomed his idea for a "children's peace forest" in the demilitarized zone dividing North and South Korea, although they said it would only happen if the countries signed a peace treaty first.

Jonathan Lee returned Thursday from an eight-day visit to the reclusive country during which he was taken on a tour of the DMZ. A hoped-for meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il did not materialize, although Lee said the officials forwarded to Kim a letter from him.

"On this trip, I discovered that both sides want reunification and that Korea is one, so I see hope on the Korean peninsula," Lee, who made the visit with his parents, Kyoung and Melissa Lee, told The Associated Press.

Impoverished North Korea is one of the most isolated countries in the world and its hard-line communist regime is under United Nations sanctions for launching missiles and refusing to comply with nuclear weapons inspections. Since the 1950-53 Korean War ended with a cease-fire and not an armistice, the U.S., South Korea and North Korea remain technically at war.

Lee, of Ridgeland, Mississippi, said the officials told him his proposed children's forest was dependent on North Korea first signing a peace treaty with the United States to formally end the war — a longstanding demand of Pyongyang's.

The 2 1/2 mile (4 kilometer)-wide DMZ is the most heavily guarded border in the world, sealed off with electric fences and studded with land mines, watchtowers and military bases.

Despite the political hurdles, Lee said he'll continue pushing the idea for a peace forest to allow interaction between children from the two sides and hopes to visit the North again next year.

The lack of diplomatic relations between Pyongyang and Washington makes private visits to the North by Americans extremely rare. In recent months North Korea has detained four Americans for illegal entry, and one is still in prison there.

Melissa Lee said concerns about the family's safety in the north had proved unfounded. "We were taken care of. At no point did I feel unsafe," she said.

Although initially taken aback by her son's desire to visit the North, she said the trip proved to be a moving experience. "For him to want to do this on his own, I'm fairly proud of him. He may not have met (Kim), but the fact that he did it was something," she said.

The Lee family said they received permission this summer to visit North Korea from the country's representative to the United Nations. Visas were granted last week in Beijing.

Home video shot by the family during their visit showed Jonathan Lee talking to tourists inside a meeting room at the DMZ, presenting flowers at a children's music performance, and visiting a museum, library and Pyongyang's famed mass games.

In his letter submitted to the North Korean leader, Lee said he wrote that former South Korean President Kim Dae-jung had talked with him about his "sunshine policy" of peaceful coexistence with the North.

That policy of rapprochement has been abandoned by the current conservative South Korean government, and relations between Seoul and Pyongyang are at their most tense in years.

 

[8wid]

Is North Korea's Kim poised to name his successor?

By John Sudworth BBC News, Seoul

Is ailing North Korean leader about to reveal who his successor is?
At some point in the next few days the North Korean Workers Party will hold its first delegates conference in more than 44 years.
News reports suggest that traffic into and out of Pyongyang is already being restricted, a customary precaution ahead of important events.
And large numbers of soldiers, armoured vehicles and artillery have been spotted massing close to the capital, perhaps in readiness for a parade fit for such an occasion.
Clearly something is going on.
But could it, as some people suggest, be the "big one" - the moment when power in this rigid, totalitarian state begins to change hands for only the second time in its history?
Like twitchers on the trail of a rare bird, the pundits and commentators who spend their lives trying to decipher North Korea's murky politics are engaged in frenzied speculation that something extraordinary might be in the air.
'Smooth transition' That Kim Jong-il is sick is no secret, at least outside of North Korea.
He is widely accepted to have suffered a stroke in August 2008, the effects of which have been clearly visible in his public appearances since.
Frail and grey-faced, the pot-belly is gone, he now walks with a limp, and his hair is noticeably thinner.
Confronted with his own mortality, it seems plausible that this son of the god-king and founder of North Korea, Kim Il-sung, is thinking about keeping it in the family once again.

Very little is known about Swiss-educated Kim Jong-un
Over the past year or so a consensus has been emerging amongst North Korean watchers that the chosen third-generation heir and successor is Kim Jong-il's youngest son, and complete political novice, Kim Jong-un.
The trouble is there has been little hard evidence for this view, only a few cryptic references in North Korean newspapers that could arguably refer to Kim junior, but certainly no official mention of him by name.
Which is why all eyes have now turned to the Workers Party and its upcoming conference which might be about to end the guessing game once and for all.
After all, it has done so once before.
Kim Jong-il was seen to have been officially anointed as successor to his father when he was elevated to a senior party position at a congress held in 1980.
"If Kim Jong-un is elected to a party position at this conference then it means he is the successor," said Choi Jin-wook, a researcher at the Korea Institute for National Unification.
"The aim is the smooth transition of power and the party is needed to legitimise the process."
But there would be dangers with such a plan.
Kim Jong-il may soon be too ill to rule effectively but his son may be viewed by many as too young.
In such a scenario other members of the elite will almost certainly be jockeying for position.
So the party conference will be watched closely to see the rising and falling fortunes of certain high-ranking North Korean officials.
Key figures At the best of times North Korean politics can look a little bit like a game of retirement home musical chairs with a dangerous twist.
The ageing officials compete for positions, fall in and out of favour, and occasionally get shuffled off never to be seen again.

Mr Jang has survived being purged to reach the heart of the leadership
But recently there has been a flurry of changes, connected some observers believe, with the succession.
In particular, Kim Jong-il's brother-in-law, Jang Song-thaek, appears to be very much back in vogue after a few years in the wilderness, having now been given one of the vice-chairmen positions on the country's powerful National Defence Commission.
Many observers suggest he will play a trusted role as regent, guiding the young Kim Jong-un as he consolidates his power base, and may be given another powerful party position at the upcoming meeting.
Two other NDC vice chairmen, O Kuk-ryol and Kim Yong-chun, a key Workers Party official and defence minister respectively, are also tipped as men to watch.
Mr O, once said to be in charge of North Korea's highly sophisticated efforts to forge fake $100 bills, is now reported to be advising Kim Jong-un on operations against South Korea.
Ri Je-gang, a first deputy director of the Workers Party Organisation and Guidance Department, was another official said to be tasked with ensuring that the succession goes smoothly.
But, thought to be a long-time rival of Jang Song-thaek, Mr Ri died in a car accident late at night while driving home from a concert in June.
Many observers have raised the possibility of foul play and suggest that the case highlights the potential for power struggles and bloodletting during the uncertainties of the succession period.
The party conference will be a chance for Kim Jong-il to balance the interests of these various individuals and keep them in check.
There are even some reports that the handover of power is already fairly advanced with all communications with the leader now passing through the hands of Kim Jong-un.
But Brian Myers, a North Korea propaganda expert based at South Korea's Dongseo University, urges caution, given that much of the speculation about the goings on inside North Korea is based on sources outside the country, often North Korean defectors.
"The chances of your average North Korean defector knowing that are the same odds as an English teacher in a bar in Itaewon [in central Seoul] knowing what Obama said to his cabinet last week," he said.
Not until Kim Jong-un is officially appointed to a senior party position, and his name appears in black and white in a North Korean newspaper, will we be able to say with any certainty that the succession has begun.

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