The Prestige question

[Schlosser85]

Borden is reckless and obsessed with his tricks to the neglect of his family. But he does harm through carelessness. Angier is far more deliberate and malicious.

Neither of them is a particularly sympathetic person, but Angier is worse.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I found Angier a much more dramatic and sympathetic person than Borden.
Borden(s) IS the reason Angier went to this extreme length, Borden went far to protect his secret, so far to not tell the truth to a man whom he was responsible for the death of his wife.
Angier is the tragic figure here, Borden ( the good one ) even with his daughter doesn't inspire sympathy from me. I don't remember well but which Borden is hanged, the father one ( good one ) or the reckless one ?

Edit : and Angier was the real deal, a true magician, dedicated to the audience, the Bordens were technicians dedicated to the trade itself not to what it was mean for ( explanation given by Angier at the end ).

 

[max314]

The grand "twist" of The Prestige is built on an absurd plot contrivance.

To wit:

Borden sends Angier on a wild goose chase by implying that Nikola Tesla built a transportation machine.

It is revealed that Nikola Tesla has NEVER built such a machine.

However...

It JUST SO HAPPENS that Nikola Tesla CAN build an almost identical machine to the one Borden flat out lied about.

Nonsense.


To clarify: I love The Prestige – but, like most Christopher Nolan films, it crumbles to dust upon closer inspection.

Still fun, mind.

 

[Warhammer]

I found Angier a much more dramatic and sympathetic person than Borden.
Borden(s) IS the reason Angier went to this extreme length, Borden went far to protect his secret, so far to not tell the truth to a man whom he was responsible for the death of his wife.
Angier is the tragic figure here, Borden ( the good one ) even with his daughter doesn't inspire sympathy from me. I don't remember well but which Borden is hanged, the father one ( good one ) or the reckless one ?

Edit : and Angier was the real deal, a true magician, dedicated to the audience, the Bordens were technicians dedicated to the trade itself not to what it was mean for ( explanation given by Angier at the end ).

Yes. I agree with you.

 

[CELTICPRED]

the father one ( good one ) or the reckless one ?

Spoiler

Wreckless

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Thanks for the memory refresh CelticPred.
It gives an even darker picture of the Borden character at the end.

PS : I remember of an SHH user by the name of Celtic Predator, any relation ?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Borden(s) IS the reason Angier went to this extreme length, Borden went far to protect his secret, so far to not tell the truth to a man whom he was responsible for the death of his wife.

The rest is opinion, but I'll comment on this specifically.

The reason Borden doesn't tell Angier what knot he tied is because he legitimately doesn't know. It is his twin that tied the knot.

Also, he (the twin) alone wasn't to blame, only partially. Julia wanted to use it too. Borden looked to her and she was the one who made the final call to go ahead with it while on stage. It was an accident, not murder.

 

[CELTICPRED]

Celtic Predator, any relation

No, he was a little troll and got banned.

 

[Moridin]

Put me in the camp that thinks this is Nolan's best film.

I found Angier a much more dramatic and sympathetic person than Borden.

I think that has a lot to do with Angier being far more charismatic than Borden. He was able to be the likeable showman that Borden couldn't be.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think that has a lot to do with Angier being far more charismatic than Borden. He was able to be the likeable showman that Borden couldn't be.

Also because Angier is the protagonist and we follow his point of view more than Borden's.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

The rest is opinion, but I'll comment on this specifically.

The reason Borden doesn't tell Angier what knot he tied is because he legitimately doesn't know. It is his twin that tied the knot.

Also, he (the twin) alone wasn't to blame, only partially. Julia wanted to use it too. Borden looked to her and she was the one who made the final call to go ahead with it while on stage. It was an accident, not murder.

They could have told Angier their secret, the Bordens knew which knot was tied by whom. That's what Angier needed to help him rest his soul, a simple truth but the Borden were too deep in their craft to reveal it.

Julia was also careless, I agree. Both her and Borden didn't listed to Caine ( don't remember the character name ).
I agree, accident, not murder but not telling the truth to Angier while knowing it was an awful move from the Bordens and pushed Angier to do what he did.

No, he was a little troll and got banned.

Ha ok, sorry to have associate you with this user.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

They could have told Angier their secret, the Bordens knew which knot was tied by whom. That's what Angier needed to help him rest his soul, a simple truth but the Borden were too deep in their craft to reveal it.

How would that help? Angier is already plotting to murder him basically from the moment it happened. Knowing the truth wouldn't have changed things. It wasn't the same situation as with Sarah.

 

[Warhammer]

No, he isn't from the moment it happened. Angier tries to kill himself first then becomes motivated by revenge after an undisclosed amount of time.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

How would that help? Angier is already plotting to murder him basically from the moment it happened. Knowing the truth wouldn't have changed things. It wasn't the same situation as with Sarah.

At first Angier only wants to know what happened, it is the Bordens refusal to tell him the truth that set Angier on a revenge path.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

At first Angier only wants to know what happened, it is the Bordens refusal to tell him the truth that set Angier on a revenge path.

He screams at Borden for showing up at Julia's funeral and then the next time they meet Angier holds Borden at gunpoint and shoots him. He's already on the revenge path right away.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Not exactly.
At the funeral Angier is sad and angry, he asks again to Borden which knot was tied, no answer.
"How does he not know !!!"
< time passes, Borden builds a family>
Angier spies on Borden and sees him with wife and kid, a life that Borden stole to him.
Then, starts the revenge.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Not exactly.
At the funeral Angier is sad and angry, he asks again to Borden which knot was tied, no answer.
"How does he not know !!!"
< time passes, Borden builds a family>
Angier spies on Borden and sees him with wife and kid, a life that Borden stole to him.
Then, starts the revenge.

The scene where he finds out about Borden's family is much later when they were leaving Tesla's AC demonstration. He has already tried to kill Borden once by that point. We know this is later chronologically because Cutter sends Angier to the demonstration after Borden gets him fired in retaliation for Angier's attempted murder earlier and because Borden is already missing his fingers.

That scene is where he gets the idea to go after Borden's family as well, rather than just get revenge on Borden himself.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

You remember it better than I do
Angier made no move against Borden's family ( wife/kid ). He only saw the life he could have and get angrier against Borden because of that. The twins ruined the family themselves.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, I have no sympathy for the Bordens ( it's sad for the father one yes but he didn't make it easier for his wife/kid either ).
I also like the Angier character much better ( the actor, his fashion, his determination and accomplishment ) and he had the chance to deal with Nicolas "Motherf***" Tesla !
Angier speech at the end always gives me the chill.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

He swiped Jess from Fallon (who was her real father, but Angier didn't know this), who Borden wanted to have custody. I would say that was targeting his family. It also might have been what ultimately did Angier in, since it was that decision that led to Cutter betraying him and leading him into a Borden ambush at the end.

That is also one of the key differences between Angier and Borden for me. Borden, for all that he did wrong, did not drag other people into his feud. It was between him and Angier. Sarah's death had nothing to do with Angier. Angier used Olivia, Cutter (until he crossed the Moral Event Horizon at the end and tried to leave Cutter out of it), Tesla, Jess, and Fallon to get to Borden. He had no problem stomping on other people to get to Borden, and it makes him that much worse in my opinion.

I actually think Angier is the more fascinating character of the two as well, but in the end he was a monster.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

No, he isn't from the moment it happened. Angier tries to kill himself first then becomes motivated by revenge after an undisclosed amount of time.

I don't think Angier tried to kill himself. He wanted to see what drowning felt like and he talks to Cutter about this afterwards. But he never acts to me like someone who was planning to end his life. It is the first sign that he's really screwed up though.

As for the first attack, it appears to be Borden's first solo show after the incident so it doesn't seem like that much time passed. Then it seems like quite a bit of time passes between then and Angier's reunion with Cutter and the start of his career as the Great Danton. I might not be right on that timeframe, but that is how it appeared to me. Anyone else is free to come in this thread and post their own interpretation.

Part of the issue with Angier is that Nolan really tries to make it look like he's the hero in the first half of the film, it isn't until the end that you really get the full glimpse of who Angier is and then the earlier scenes have a whole different context. This is one of those movies that everyone really should watch more than once.