The Pro-Wrestling Thread: Triple H's Shovel Emporium

[BlackLantern]

I think its safe to say if the guy has repeatedly said he doesn't have one, he doesn't have one

 

[Kaleb]

fans of Cena

 

[Metamorpho1977]

Little bit of deja vu last night at the end of that battle royal.

[YT]c0UU5JBH4II[/YT]

 

[Kaleb]

aparently this is the fantasy football league that The Miz, Kofi,Striker,Bella Twins,Cody Rhodes,Zack Ryder,Swagger,Ziggler ,Ted and Beth Phoenix play in

http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/leagueoffice?leagueId=67046

 

[Wylie Times]

Little bit of deja vu last night at the end of that battle royal.

[YT]c0UU5JBH4II[/YT]

Till this day I don't understand why smarks hate on that so much. It got exactly the reaction it was supposed to get. Nothing in WWE today can generate the kind of heat seen in that vid.

 

[Nightwing 52]

According to JR's twitter...

"Nice tv rtg 4 raw mon nite, 3.3 w/ appx 4.8 million viewers. Most watched entertainment show on cable Mon nite. Stout # vs stiff competition"

That is a huge step up from last week if accurate.

Also - wrestlingnewsworld.com:

WWE has signed Vicky Skeeles to a developmental contract. Skeeles is a British independent worker and has already reported to Florida Championship Wrestling.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

Till this day I don't understand why smarks hate on that so much. It got exactly the reaction it was supposed to get. Nothing in WWE today can generate the kind of heat seen in that vid.

That was one of my favorite moments in the old WCW.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Why is it so damn hard to make Michael Cole the GM of Raw? What is taking them so long to do that?

 

[BlackLantern]

dunno....im loving the ego trip now.....the voice of WWE, the Cole Miners

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

fans of Cena

Hahahaha, oh so good.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

fans of Cena

Probably my favorite moment of the night. The director did a great job of picking out those shots.

 

[Metallo]

after watching the Cole/Edge segment online...I was reminded of something kinda funny

I remember an article in WWF Magazine (in 97 or 98) and it was about the commentators in the WWE....JR, Kevin Kelly, Cole (who had just come to WWF) and they referred to Cole as Todd Jr. (in reference to Todd Pettengil) and how useless he seemed

and they called Kevin Kelly the heater because he ticked everyone off

I guess its no coincidence that Cole reminds me so much of Pettengill then.

 

[Metallo]

Credit: F4WOnline.com

According to Bryan Alvarez, the current plan for the John Cena/Nexus storyline is to pattern it after the Ted DiBiase/Virgil storyline from the early 1990's. The idea is that Wade Barrett will continue ordering Cena around until the point where Cena finally snaps and attacks Barrett. It appears that the creative team has an idea for the end of the storyline, but the rest of it will be done week-by-week.

Jesus Christ that sounds horrible. Thats the best they can come up with?

 

[venom892]

If that's the way it's gonna be We can pretty much assume that we'll never see a Cena Heel turn.

 

[louiebling$]

Semi Review of SvR2011,it has Me sooooooo excited for This:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/112/1125174p1.html

 

[RetroNaz]

I never expected a Cena heel turn from his move to Nexus.

 

[Dr. Evil]

BL:

How did Linda make out on the debate?

 

[The Sage]

TNA wrestler Kurt Angle says he plans to wrestle one more full-time year with TNA after signing a contract extension. After that Angle, says he'll review his options of staying with TNA part-time or consider returning to WWE.

"There comes a time when everybody has to hang it up. I'm coming to the close of my career whether it be a year or two or three. I know it won't be full-time after this year. I would like to stay in TNA, but if I my option goes to WWE, I will. I want to stay in TNA, no doubt about it," Angle said on Monday's "Right After Wrestling" satellite radio show with Arda Ocal and Jimmy Korderas.

Angle added that he's "addicted to pro wrestling" and does not want to leave the industry despite the number of years on his body and outside projects pressing him for time.

"I'm just so addicted to pro wrestling. I love it so much. I just don't want to leave it," Angle said. "I want to keep going. Whether it's a full-time basis, which it will be for the next year, but after that, but I probably will lower it to a part-time basis due to Angle Foods and my movie career."

The most concerning quote from Angle came at the beginning of the interview when he talked about not being able to slow down in the ring despite reaching his 40s and having a history of injuries. Angle compared his in-ring intensity to Chris Benoit and said he doesn't know another speed.

"Vince McMahon has always tried to get me to slow down and kind of save my body. I don't know how to do that. I've been a wrestler since I was seven. I never listened to Vince McMahon. I never listened to Dixie Carter. I always go out there and give 180 percent," Angle said.

"Unfortunately for the guys I wrestle, they tend to tire out due to my intensity. I really based it off a dear friend of mine, Chris Benoit, who I think matched my intensity. I can't help but go out there and give everything I have. Hulk Hogan has talked to me about slowing down. I said, 'I can't.' The day when I can't do that is the day I retire."

Caldwell's Analysis: After the events in June 2007, no one should ever compare intensity to Chris Benoit. That's just a scary mentality to have when Benoit had a number of undocumented health issues that are linked to an impaired mental state of mind and physical well-being.

Link: Angle's complete interview is available on TheScore.com.

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/TNA_News_1/article_44288.shtml

 

[Wylie Times]

If that's the way it's gonna be We can pretty much assume that we'll never see a Cena Heel turn.

A Cena heel turn is still a long ways away from happening. His current fanbase just isn't old enough yet and they're still really into him. He doesn't need to turn heel until THEY start to think he's stale and boring.

Some of yall just need to let it go. Every damn year there's speculation of a Cena Heel turn that NEVER happens.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Love you, Angle.

 

[Nightmare]

According to JR's twitter...

"Nice tv rtg 4 raw mon nite, 3.3 w/ appx 4.8 million viewers. Most watched entertainment show on cable Mon nite. Stout # vs stiff competition"

That is a huge step up from last week if accurate.

Also - wrestlingnewsworld.com:

WWE has signed Vicky Skeeles to a developmental contract. Skeeles is a British independent worker and has already reported to Florida Championship Wrestling.

oh la la t:

 

[The Sage]

Interesting post in another forum on WWE's PPV decline:

I'm not the kind of guy who laments WWE's impending doom while they continue to churn out a big profit and $40 million revenue Wrestlemanias each year while never getting too great and never getting too terrible. But WWE on pay-per-view is starting to become a pretty serious and embarrassing problem for them and might be a sign that legitimate trouble is on the way.

I was pretty sure Money in the Bank was going to do a lot better than the previous three gimmick b-shows. It actually did quite bad. I was definitely sure SummerSlam would stop the negative momentum since it was SummerSlam and it had the big payoff match with Nexus.

It didn't. At all.

Summerslam did 350,000 buys (196,000 in North America), down from 396,000 (232,000 North American) in 2009 despite having, ostensibly, a much bigger, hotter, and more focused main event. (SS09 was mostly promoted around the return of Shawn Michaels and the umpteenth reunion of DX.) SummerSlam '09 was already itself a big drop from the year before:

SummerSlam 2008: 477,000 (315,000 N.A.) [Undertaker/Edge HIAC, Cena/Batista]
SummerSlam 2009: 369,000 (232,000 N.A.) [DX/Legacy, Jeff/Punk TLC, Cena/Orton]
SummerSlam 2010: 350,000 (196,000 N.A.) [Cena/Nexus]

WWE has had a string of PPV disappointments dating back to Wrestlemania, which did at least 100,000 fewer than it was projected to for a show WWE was hoping could be the most successful WM since Trump/Vince. (This is probably in large part because it aired the day after a UFC in the same weekend, the same circumstances of which destroyed Survivor Series last year and would mean that not even Wrestlemania is completely UFC-proof if they're both happening in the same 24 hours.) SummerSlam capped off a really bad summer in which Fatal Fourway became the modern low for WWE PPV, going back to 1996*, and Money in the Bank only did marginally better.

* excepting ECW December 2 Dismember, which doesn't really compare since it didn't have 1) WWE main eventers on it, 2) more than two matches announced, 3) more than a week between it and another PPV.

Extreme Rules: 182,000 (105,000 N.A.)
Over the Edge: 198,000 (115,000 N.A.)
Fatal Four Way: 143,000 (84,000 N.A.)
Money in the Bank: 162,000 (95,000 N.A.)

To show how fast and steep the decline has been, 2009's b-shows averaged 218,000 buys (136,000 domestic). The two most successful ones, by a lot, were Night of Champions and Hell in a Cell, both of which I'd expect to do badly this time around thanks to HIAC's two-week build. Bragging Rights, with the perfect storm of a concept that's not over, a three-week build, and a Saturday UFC the night before, looks like it will easily drop below Fatal Four Way as a new modern low.

Even if Fatal Four Way and Bragging Rights can be written off as particularly pointless, bad ideas to build PPVs around, I think that the SummerSlam buyrate is even scarier, because it's the first time that WWE failed on its own merits when they'd actually had their **** together and done a very good job of building up a big main event. The fact that the SummerSlam news came out the same week that Raw did a sub-3.0 rating against football for the second week in a row makes this a pretty startling week for them.

I forgot to say, someone on the Figure-Four board figured out the total buys/domestic splits by multiplying by the percentage WWE gave, so they may come out slightly differently, but they're close.

So why is PPV tanking right now? The easiest answer is that there are too many shows and the main eventers are stale and not as over anymore, but that's been the case for both for a while now and people didn't just suddenly realize it in May. There've been 14-15 PPVs per year since 2004, and this was actually the first year since then WWE has gotten down to 13. Neither of those are positives, obviously, but I think they've caused a more gradual erosion, death of 1000 cuts.

The main events have been intermixing the Cena/Orton/Batista/Edge generation with the HHH/Shawn/Taker holdovers since 2005-06, although they got two big band-aids a couple years ago by adding Jericho and Jeff Hardy to the mix to make some new(ish) matchups to headline with to slow down that decline. The same crew of guys on top definitely doesn't help; there's some kind of crazy stat about how Triple H, John Cena, and Randy Orton have been in all but five Raw world title match on PPV over the entire eight years that there have been two world championships. It's extra-frustrating when WWE puts a lot of effort in a new main eventer, like Jack Swagger this year and CM Punk last year, only to decide they don't want them in main events after all -- apparently regardless of how well they performed in the role, since it's hard to be better than Punk was in 2009 -- and would rather have Kane, whose hasn't been relevant as a headliner since 2003, in that spot than either of them.

But this drop has been so sudden that I don't think it's just chickens coming home to roost on longterm short-sightedness. I think it's caused by something that has changed more recently and is more specific than general "people are less interested in wrestling because of staleness and UFC" thing. Three aspects of WWE PPV have changed recently, but it's hard to say which is the biggest problem or if they've all coalesced to make a few not-good-but-not-dealbreaking things worse.

1) The increase to $45, starting with the Royal Rumble this year, is too much for a WWE PPV and was a tipping point for people to say "eh, forget it," especially for shows that have generally been average and not very special. If people were just buying adequate shows out of habit, the price increase was enough to break that habit, and it was helped along by the fact that ...


2) WWE doesn't really use their TV to promote pay-per-views or build up main events anymore. They book matches for a show and run down the card at 10:40, but the PPV is not the end destination for the month of TV, it's just a bump along the way until the next edition of the longest running weekly primetime episodic entertainment show. The year Raw spent revolving around guest hosts and their hilarious interactions with Santino did particular damage, but the philosophy hasn't really changed since they dropped the hosts. PPVs occur because they're on the schedule, but the only one that really gets built to is Wrestlemania.

WWE's business model has changed to where it isn't totally PPV driven and they now make a ton in TV licensing fees, but that doesn't mean they should just abandon promotion for PPVs so they can concentrate on reasons to have three hour Raws or opportunities to collaborate with Jon Heder, famous actor -- and in the process abandon the entire foundational purpose of pro wrestling to create interest and anticipation for future matches in exchange for human moneyunits.

It doesn't mean that the very concept of lots of people paying for a big event on PPV is dying either, because even with internet streams and torrents and changing viewing habits and SHOWS WATCHED IN PHONES or whatever, UFC still gets a whole lot of people to pay for their shows. The economy is bad, but the economy has been bad for two years.

The gimmick PPVs that started one year ago are losers. The idea was to create new theme shows so that they'd have ten more Royal Rumbles and Elimination Chambers that draw just from the concept. But by stripping the context from stipulations that were over, like Hell in a Cell and TLC, and watering them down with multiple versions of the same stip on the same night, they're actually hurting their PPV since they no longer have special stips with a track record available to use on big programs that actually merit them and can logically progress to them, the way Undertaker and Edge's HIAC peaked their feud and drew strongly. This year, for instance, Batista and Cena needed a third match and had to settle for I Quit since the HIAC had to be saved until October for Orton and Sheamus, who moderately dislike each other.

Is Money in the Bank over enough to carry a show like Elimination Chamber, Hell in a Cell, and TLC? The buyrate says it's not, and I can see why it wouldn't be: it's not a match to blow off a feud, just the promise of an awesome match, and a match that has always been a midcard stuntshow where you don't see the ramifications for the winner pay off for a while. The MITB show was particularly badly and bizarrely promoted though -- the title matches were Cena/Sheamus and Rey/Swagger but all of the television buildup was for Cena & Sheamus vs. Nexus and Kane vs. Swagger, I guess because it just doesn't matter. Except, it looks like it does.


3) The world titles are dead. Like, really dead. Like, it doesn't mean anything to win the world title. People have complained about the value of the world championship going down since the Monday Night Wars started, but even with two of them around, the world championship in WWE was still a big deal, and so was winning it. Until the end of 2008, when they started the trend of changing the world title on every PPV. I'm not going to count the number of world title changes since then because there's no point, there's just been a lot of them, basically at least one of the two changing once a month. Seeing a world title change is hardly an incentive to buy a WWE PPV now, and not seeing a world title change doesn't make you feel like you missed out on anything important.

So not only does it mean nothing to have a world title match as a selling point for a PPV, but it's never meant less to win one either. And not only does a different guy win it every month, but anyone can win them. Sheamus and Swagger both won a world title within four months of each other basically as rookies. And unlike Sheamus, Swagger wasn't even pushed hard before he won the title. And he hasn't been pushed hard after he lost it (three months later). And he wasn't even pushed hard while he had the title, as he lost almost every match he was in. Jack Swagger was world champion in June and feuding with MVP in August.

So let's say Miz, who probably has even more potential than Sheamus and Swagger, uses the briefcase and wins the WWE title in the next couple months. Instead of being a major moment in the career of a new main event heel, it doesn't have any impact because he's just the latest guy to do that. He has the belt now and he'll lose it within two months. And then Wade Barrett or Alberto del Rio or Drew McIntyre will do the same thing next year.


WWE is not going to go back to four PPVs a year. They just aren't. But there's no reason they can't be successful with twelve. I would say that all they'd have to do is present serious issues and build to them with (a lot) more focus than they have been, but that's kind of what they did at SummerSlam and it wasn't enough. So it seems like they need to fix their presentation and context so that the rare things they want to count as serious can still resonate within it.

http://the-w.com/thread.php/id=41886

 

[Metallo]

I never expected a Cena heel turn from his move to Nexus.

A Cena heel turn is still a long ways away from happening. His current fanbase just isn't old enough yet and they're still really into him. He doesn't need to turn heel until THEY start to think he's stale and boring.

Some of yall just need to let it go. Every damn year there's speculation of a Cena Heel turn that NEVER happens.

a heel turn would be interesting but I'd be just as interested in this storyline if they just did a good job on it heel turn or not.

My disappointment has nothing to do with a heel turn but the utter lack of originality when it comes to their plans for Cena and Nexus. If WWE wondered why their PPV and ratings numbers where down lately maybe it has something to do with how uninspired and predictable the product is.

They can think of a better way to play this all out than Cena just supercenaing against Nexus and defying the odds again by using brawn and no brains against Barrett. The ideas of Cena causing dissension within Nexus and playing on the ambition of other members not only makes more sense but is far more interesting.

Why not let Cena beat Barret with brute force a few nights ago if thats their only idea on how to end the story in the first place? just seems like a waste of time.

 

[venom892]

Cena should be turning all the Nexus guys on Barrett.It's obvious Barrett is just using them and Cena should point out how quickly he dropped Young and Tarver and make them think they're next.That be the best way to play it.

 

[BlackLantern]

A Cena heel turn is still a long ways away from happening. His current fanbase just isn't old enough yet and they're still really into him. He doesn't need to turn heel until THEY start to think he's stale and boring.

Some of yall just need to let it go. Every damn year there's speculation of a Cena Heel turn that NEVER happens.

Yup....We (and I mean fans like us and others like us) are not the target demo here, what we want doesn't really matter