The Rings of Power Season 1 Episode 4 "The Great Wave"

[Deck Rickard]

Never knew the Troy series existed. I'll have to check it out.

Yeah, it didn’t get a lot of buzz but it’s worth watching. Unlike the Brad Pitt movie, the gods play a role (though they’re not in it a lot) and it definitely leans into the darker, more brutal aspects of the legend.

 

[Another_Fool]

Despite how beautiful the show looks, there's something rather uncompelling about it. I can't put my finger on it, but maybe it's the pacing, the way the dialogue scenes are framed, or perhaps it's method of world building is kind of plodding. I'm really not sure. It's almost like someone gave a production team that can only do TV/CW levels of work a huge budget for special effects.

And I love LOTR, I really dig the Silmarillion, and always wanted something based around Sauron. This somehow isn't scratching the itch despite dealing with things that on paper I'd like.

 

[Elayis]

Did anyone catch a glimpse on Narsil behind galadriel in the chamber of Tar Palantir?
it was 100% identical to the design of the movie trilogy. I have a picture on my iPad and post it here later

View attachment 58754

It's not 100% (it looks shorter & wider), but I'm amazed by how close it is. I didn't think something like that would be possible with WB holding the copyrights to the films.

 

[Elayis]

Despite how beautiful the show looks, there's something rather uncompelling about it. I can't put my finger on it, but maybe it's the pacing, the way the dialogue scenes are framed, or perhaps it's method of world building is kind of plodding. I'm really not sure. It's almost like someone gave a production team that can only do TV/CW levels of work a huge budget for special effects.

And I love LOTR, I really dig the Silmarillion, and always wanted something based around Sauron. This somehow isn't scratching the itch despite dealing with things that on paper I'd like.

Yep. I think it's the lack of character motivation and specificity that's the key problem. Who are these characters, what do they want? There's no interiority going on, everyone's just a cardboard cutout, and the few characters that do have a discernible character trait are only that one thing, there's no nuance. It also feels like we're coming in mid-story without much context into the dynamics at play.

And this episode again continued the forced "conflicts" that seem to be the only way these writers attempt to create drama (Durin vs his father & Elrond, Isildur vs his friends, Bronwyn vs the other Southlanders). Reminds me a lot of Jeph Loeb's writing.

 

[InCali]

Probably not Elendil‘s sword yet. Maybe it has something to do with the heritage of the Numenorian kings and Tar Miriel will give it to Elendil, when he leaves Numenor forever

Possible, but, again, that's almost assuredly what did not happen. My guess is that scene was just something of an Easter Egg. It hopefully doesn't mean much other than the "ooh....looky there" factor. It was kinda cool seeing it (once it was pointed out to me LOL). I would think they wouldn't have been able to use that image as Narsil if what people are saying is true as it was from the movies (which I'm not that familiar with).

 

[Persona]

Yep. I think it's the lack of character motivation and specificity that's the key problem. Who are these characters, what do they want? There's no interiority going on, everyone's just a cardboard cutout, and the few characters that do have a discernible character trait are only that one thing, there's no nuance. It also feels like we're coming in mid-story without much context into the dynamics at play.

And this episode again continued the forced "conflicts" that seem to be the only way these writers attempt to create drama (Durin vs his father & Elrond, Isildur vs his friends, Bronwyn vs the other Southlanders). Reminds me a lot of Jeph Loeb's writing.

I feel like I understand all the character's motivations.

The conflicts don't feel any more forced to me than most television. All the conflicts have been products of the varying motivations and character personalities clashing in ways that you would expect based on the contexts.

 

[InCali]

Yep. I think it's the lack of character motivation and specificity that's the key problem. Who are these characters, what do they want? There's no interiority going on, everyone's just a cardboard cutout, and the few characters that do have a discernible character trait are only that one thing, there's no nuance. It also feels like we're coming in mid-story without much context into the dynamics at play.

And this episode again continued the forced "conflicts" that seem to be the only way these writers attempt to create drama (Durin vs his father & Elrond, Isildur vs his friends, Bronwyn vs the other Southlanders). Reminds me a lot of Jeph Loeb's writing.

I think my main problem is that I find most of the characters rather dull. Durin and Disa are pretty good; although I think Durin overplays a bit and is somewhat out of character for a dwarf. Arondir and Bronwyn are pretty good and the kid (forget his name) is fine. Some of the hobbit types are okay, but everyone else seems rather blah to me. Numenor is a disappointment, but that could just be a result of me being unable to reconcile the major differences from the author's vision. I can buy some of the persecution of the faithful, but not during the reign of Tar-Palantir and his daughter. Everything just seems off and the changes to the plot rather distract me no matter how hard I try to ignore them.

I'm guessing that if I didn't know the books so well, these things wouldn't bother me nearly as much, I think I'd still find the characters lacking.

 

[Deck Rickard]

It's not 100% (it looks shorter & wider), but I'm amazed by how close it is. I didn't think something like that would be possible with WB holding the copyrights to the films.

I’m not 100% sure that’s actually supposed to be Narsil. I mean, it’s clearly made to look like it but I think there’s a chance that it might just be an Easter egg for fans and the sword that Elendil received earlier might be Narsil in this show.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Speaking of swords, the official Instagram account just posted a video of Halbrand displaying some sick moves.

Spoiler

There’s been lots of speculation that he’s Sauron and it’s fairly convincing. I’m still leaning towards him being one of the Nine though. My theory is that he isn’t actually an heir to the throne of the Southlands; I think he either killed the real heir or just stole the medallion off of them. The Sauron theories line up, especially since we see him canoodling with Pharazon, but I think I like the idea of Halbrand being roguish hero for a while and ultimately falling to Sauron rather than being Sauron himself. I feel like, if he was Sauron, he would have either found a way to talk his way out of that fight with the Numenoreans or would have made sure to kill them so that they wouldn’t have been able to tell anyone about it.

But I also had another idea. We know Sauron was a shapeshifter, but did he have any ability to actually be in multiple places at once? I was thinking that maybe Sauron could actually several different characters.

 

[InCali]

I’m not 100% sure that’s actually supposed to be Narsil. I mean, it’s clearly made to look like it but I think there’s a chance that it might just be an Easter egg for fans and the sword that Elendil received earlier might be Narsil in this show.

I think that's probably right. Towards the end of the SA, which is (apparently??) where this show takes place, Narsil had been in his family (Lords of Andunie) for thousands of years. Everything points to it being passed down to the heirs of Silmarien (eldest child Tar-Elendil). Her younger brother Tar-Meneldur inherited the Throne and her line was given the royal title of The Lords of Andunie at that time.

 

[Albright]

I think that's probably right. Towards the end of the SA, which is (apparently??) where this show takes place, Narsil had been in his family (Lords of Andunie) for thousands of years. Everything points to it being passed down to the heirs of Silmarien (eldest child Tar-Elendil). Her younger brother Tar-Meneldur inherited the Throne and her line was given the royal title of The Lords of Andunie at that time.

you still think, that it will happen like that?

Speaking of swords, the official Instagram account just posted a video of Halbrand displaying some sick moves.

Spoiler

There’s been lots of speculation that he’s Sauron and it’s fairly convincing. I’m still leaning towards him being one of the Nine though. My theory is that he isn’t actually an heir to the throne of the Southlands; I think he either killed the real heir or just stole the medallion off of them. The Sauron theories line up, especially since we see him canoodling with Pharazon, but I think I like the idea of Halbrand being roguish hero for a while and ultimately falling to Sauron rather than being Sauron himself. I feel like, if he was Sauron, he would have either found a way to talk his way out of that fight with the Numenoreans or would have made sure to kill them so that they wouldn’t have been able to tell anyone about it.

But I also had another idea. We know Sauron was a shapeshifter, but did he have any ability to actually be in multiple places at once? I was thinking that maybe Sauron could actually several different characters.

you don’t have to put that in spoilers. It’s pretty obvious, but not confirmed (also not leaked)

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah, probably not, haha.

 

[henzINNIT]

I'd be surprised if the show went to the effort of producing and showing a sword that is very similar to Narsil only as an easter egg and then use a different design later on. Seems more likely that sword is what it appears to be.

Speaking of swords, the official Instagram account just posted a video of Halbrand displaying some sick moves.

Spoiler

There’s been lots of speculation that he’s Sauron and it’s fairly convincing. I’m still leaning towards him being one of the Nine though. My theory is that he isn’t actually an heir to the throne of the Southlands; I think he either killed the real heir or just stole the medallion off of them. The Sauron theories line up, especially since we see him canoodling with Pharazon, but I think I like the idea of Halbrand being roguish hero for a while and ultimately falling to Sauron rather than being Sauron himself. I feel like, if he was Sauron, he would have either found a way to talk his way out of that fight with the Numenoreans or would have made sure to kill them so that they wouldn’t have been able to tell anyone about it.

But I also had another idea. We know Sauron was a shapeshifter, but did he have any ability to actually be in multiple places at once? I was thinking that maybe Sauron could actually several different characters.

Yeah there have been a few hints about Halbrand by now. Too many to not be deliberate. It's still not conclusive in my opinion, though I am personally hoping it is a mislead. Halbrand becoming a ringwraith or even the king of the dead would be more interesting to me. Still putting my hat on Sauron being active behind the scenes in Celebrimbor's story. I guess both at once could be possible too, him being a shapeshifter and all. I could see Annatar being dropped either for the sake of a twist or evens because of rights issues. Hope not.

The reveals about Halbrand and the Stranger are going to be a litmus test for me about the show's writing and my investment in it. Both have potential yet both could be very underwhelming.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I'd be surprised if the show went to the effort of producing and showing a sword that is very similar to Narsil only as an easter egg and then use a different design later on. Seems more likely that sword is what it appears to be.



Yeah there have been a few hints about Halbrand by now. Too many to not be deliberate. It's still not conclusive in my opinion, though I am personally hoping it is a mislead. Halbrand becoming a ringwraith or even the king of the dead would be more interesting to me. Still putting my hat on Sauron being active behind the scenes in Celebrimbor's story. I guess both at once could be possible too, him being a shapeshifter and all. I could see Annatar being dropped either for the sake of a twist or evens because of rights issues. Hope not.

The reveals about Halbrand and the Stranger are going to be a litmus test for me about the show's writing and my investment in it. Both have potential yet both could be very underwhelming.

Yeah, agreed. I’ve enjoyed both of those storylines so far (Halbrand more so) but both with depend on the payoff. Adar is a similar situation. The mysteries surrounding all three of these characters are intriguing; hopefully they won’t drop the ball.

(Cue the response from someone saying they already have)

 

[InCali]

you still think, that it will happen like that?

I have NO IDEA what the writers are going to do and nobody else here does either. My wild guess is that it is an easter egg, but they've changed enough of the story that they could have Ar-Pharazon, who was no elf friend or friend of Elendil, be the one who gave Narsil to him.

The best way to handle this is to let it be and since they can't use PJs stuff (or so I understand), just have Narsil look differently than Anduril (Narsil reforged). It's the cleanest way to go.

PS They should have put heels on Elendil.

 

[InCali]

I'd be surprised if the show went to the effort of producing and showing a sword that is very similar to Narsil only as an easter egg and then use a different design later on. Seems more likely that sword is what it appears to be.



Yeah there have been a few hints about Halbrand by now. Too many to not be deliberate. It's still not conclusive in my opinion, though I am personally hoping it is a mislead. Halbrand becoming a ringwraith or even the king of the dead would be more interesting to me. Still putting my hat on Sauron being active behind the scenes in Celebrimbor's story. I guess both at once could be possible too, him being a shapeshifter and all. I could see Annatar being dropped either for the sake of a twist or evens because of rights issues. Hope not.

The reveals about Halbrand and the Stranger are going to be a litmus test for me about the show's writing and my investment in it. Both have potential yet both could be very underwhelming.

Could they get dinged for using an image from PJs movies if the shot was of Narsil? I was under the impression that they couldn't do that, but I'm not familiar with the terms of the contract between Amazon and the Tolkien Estate.

 

[henzINNIT]

Could they get dinged for using an image from PJs movies if the shot was of Narsil? I was under the impression that they couldn't do that, but I'm not familiar with the terms of the contract between Amazon and the Tolkien Estate.

Hard to say. You'd think so. Maybe there's a technicality around certain designs as there are overlapping designers. Maybe the sword was made just different enough to protect the show. As with everything else, the rights are murky as fook. The Balrog in the trailer looked very close to PJ's as well.

 

[InCali]

Hard to say. You'd think so. Maybe there's a technicality around certain designs as there are overlapping designers. Maybe the sword was made just different enough to protect the show. As with everything else, the rights are murky as fook. The Balrog in the trailer looked very close to PJ's as well.

Others have been saying that Amazon has been very upfront about the contractual limitations and so forth. I thought it was just my ignorance as to why I wasn't clear on the details....and could still be right about that.