The Rings of Power Season 1 Episode 6 "Udûn"

[KaijuDude1992]

I am also enjoying both shows for different reasons, but man this latest episode of ROP really stepped up to the plate and gave me everything I've wanted from this show since the very beginning.

Great pacing, awesome, brutal action sequences and that ending was pretty spectacular too. I really hope the last couple of episodes are able to maintain this kind of momentum.

This episode completely made up for the last two episodes IMO.

 

[Iceman]

Looks bloody epic this.

 

[Albright]

Halbrand is so Sauron

 

[InCali]

This was for sure the best episode from an action, pacing, and story perspective.

What's becoming clear to me, and I suspect this is true for others who know and like Tolkien's writings, is that I can't completely divorce myself from the fact that this in no way, shape or form follows the writings of the author.

I keep telling myself that this isn't a story about the 2nd age and, to an extent, that works, but I do find that having names and places in the story that are familiar (Ostirith or Fortress of Guard isn't one of them LOL) is somewhat distracting and probably lessens my enjoyment of it to an extent.

Still, from just a story perspective, it was a pretty good episode.

 

[misjuevos]

There were so many dumb things in this episode not to mention show, that I watch now to see what else they can do. It is very funny the logic these "characters" use. The numenoreans are a huge disappointment. I really dislike their armor. The design and the color are very unappealing to me. The sword payoff was like "what". That is all the sword does? You can just break the dam.

You know what Tolkien has been missing Capoeira, I laughed when Arondir threw the Capoeira kick. Nothing says Tolkien like Brazilian dance fighting. I expected some good sword fighting, but I don't think the choreographers of this show can handle that. Galadriel hanging upside down was another "what". Not to mention her just standing there at the end. Gonna be interesting to see how they explain what happened to her on the next episode.

 

[Sithborg]

As fun as the action and the disaster was, I am finding that the scene with Galadriel and Adar may have been my favorite. It refocuses Galadriel's story on what I liked about her in the premiere. Bullying Numenor to return her to Middle Earth and finding help to find Sauron is one thing. But the story on Numenor really couldn't focus on her dealing with her trauma.

And I find Adar's story, giving Sauron's story a slightly different context as fascinating.

I am starting to see the story that they want to tell start to take shape.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah, I liked that scene because it showed that Galadriel’s drive to avenge her brother and stop Sauron is taking her down a dark path. Conversely, it also showed compassion from Adar for his orc armies - something Sauron obviously lacks and why Adar turned against him. It never goes so far as to say that Adar is the real good guy or whatever but it does show that nothing is ever black and white in a war.

 

[henzINNIT]

Really enjoyable episode. It was cool to see some characters cross paths finally. Some great visuals and action, and nice character moments in between. It's funny because the initial skirmish between the orcs and villagers was quite underwhelming and my heart sank a bit, only for it to be a deliberate choice to make the deserters the first wave. That was pretty effective. Still hits the odd bum note for me in places but it was an hour well spent.

Halbrand is so Sauron

The show constantly has me going back and forth, giving me a hint in one direction and then a hint in another. My preference is still that he is already involved in the elf plot elsewhere but I could see it going either way.

 

[Persona]

This was for sure the best episode from an action, pacing, and story perspective.

What's becoming clear to me, and I suspect this is true for others who know and like Tolkien's writings, is that I can't completely divorce myself from the fact that this in no way, shape or form follows the writings of the author.

I keep telling myself that this isn't a story about the 2nd age and, to an extent, that works, but I do find that having names and places in the story that are familiar (Ostirith or Fortress of Guard isn't one of them LOL) is somewhat distracting and probably lessens my enjoyment of it to an extent.

Still, from just a story perspective, it was a pretty good episode.

It's a remix, for sure. But I'm enjoying all the Tolkien lines, themes, and ideas they are managing to pack in, even if it's a different arrangement.

For instance, focusing in on Galadriel's Feanorian side and First Age trauma and giving her this quest to purge Middle Earth of what she perceives as evil and then bringing Tolkien's later concept of what the show calls "Moriondor" against that--fascinating, engaging stuff. Adar's line to Galadriel about finding Morgoth's successor in her mirror, harking back to the moment where she sees her reflection in Utumno's ice and smashes it...

Anyways, yeah, the show's methodical and measured set-up of Galadriel / Halbrand / Numenor and the Southlands in episodes 1-5 really paid off in episode 6. Hopefully they can keep building the characters, stakes, intrigue, and conflict from here. This show has a lot of ways it can go wrong, but it also has a chance to be something special.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I took a break from the show last week and watched the two latest episodes today but while more happened in this episode I can't say that the show is improving much. More things are beginning to happen but I've never had an issue with slow storytelling in itself anyway. In fact it's often in the slower parts that the bonds with the characters are made.

The character writing has been too weak for me to care about the fate of them in the battle. It's an odd feeling that while I think it's terrible as an adaptation I've given up on that aspect, yet the only reason I feel connected to some of the characters is because they are supposed to be characters that I do care about in the original works. I'm unsure of if this is some failure of mine to look past the originals because I'm caring so little here, but the LotR trilogy did many changes and I could quite easily look past those.

The battle looked good and the production values have been the consistent strong suit of the show, although in this episode there were several designs I didn't like, especially the Numenorean armor. This is a minor complaint compared to the other things I think the show does poorly though.

When Galadriel just stood there at the end I half expected her to wake up from having had a vision or something because what washed over the village there would definitely kill everyone.

 

[InCali]

It's a remix, for sure. But I'm enjoying all the Tolkien lines, themes, and ideas they are managing to pack in, even if it's a different arrangement.

For instance, focusing in on Galadriel's Feanorian side and First Age trauma and giving her this quest to purge Middle Earth of what she perceives as evil and then bringing Tolkien's later concept of what the show calls "Moriondor" against that--fascinating, engaging stuff. Adar's line to Galadriel about finding Morgoth's successor in her mirror, harking back to the moment where she sees her reflection in Utumno's ice and smashes it...

Anyways, yeah, the show's methodical and measured set-up of Galadriel / Halbrand / Numenor and the Southlands in episodes 1-5 really paid off in episode 6. Hopefully they can keep building the characters, stakes, intrigue, and conflict from here. This show has a lot of ways it can go wrong, but it also has a chance to be something special.

6 was a much more entertaining episode, but this is a complete reimagining of the 2nd age with some names, places, and lines thrown in. There was no "Feanorian" side to Galadriel in the 1st or any other age. Her motivation for going to, and staying in, ME was never, ever about revenge, in fact, adding the revenge factor to her character detracts from her greatness. Her motivation was purely to have a land of her own to order. She completely rejected/disliked everything about Feanor and fought "only" at need; even in the 1st age. She spent virtually all of the 1st age in Doriath under the tutelage of Queen Melian and, from her, learned much and increased in wisdom and power.

Internal and external consistency are 2 different things. The show, so far at least, has the former, but not the latter. In fact, at this point and going forward, there can only be a superficial comparison to the writings. The set up was just too different to allow for that and that choice was made long ago. It doesn't mean it can't be an entertaining show. We just shouldn't compare it to the writings.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I'm genuinely curious why a lot of people are enjoying that show more than this. It's good, dont me wrong, but people are acting like it's on the level of GOT in it's prime when it's not. Both ROP and HOTD are very solid, in my mind. This show is scratching that fantasy itch a little more.

For my part it's because I think HotD is well written and RoP is poorly written. In HotD there are some complex and human characters, and dialogue can be subtle and even rely on what's not being said. RoP has pretty flat characters and its dialogue is much more on the nose about everything. HotD is a dialogue heavy show but it still doesn't try to say things instead of showing as much as RoP does.

There are other things as well, like that I think RoP has clearly more noticeable flaws in the plot, etc, but the above is the main thing.

I also think it's probably easier to figure out why others like something if you don't have the attitude of "some people are acting like it's *this good* but it's not". That sounds like saying that people are wrong about something subjective.

 

[InCali]

For my part it's because I think HotD is well written and RoP is poorly written. In HotD there are some complex and human characters, and dialogue can be subtle and even rely on what's not being said. RoP has pretty flat characters and its dialogue is much more on the nose about everything. HotD is a dialogue heavy show but it still doesn't try to say things instead of showing as much as RoP does.

There are other things as well, like that I think RoP has clearly more noticeable flaws in the plot, etc, but the above is the main thing.

I also think it's probably easier to figure out why others like something if you don't have the attitude of "some people are acting like it's *this good* but it's not". That sounds like saying that people are wrong about something subjective.

In my mind, the writing also stands out as the main difference between the 2 shows. While I rather liked the last episode of RoP more than the others, RoP seems more like a "bam....boom spectacle" with unexplained events (at least unexplained so far) than a story with complex, changing characters who drive the plot. RoP also is quite predictable and draws on snippets from other events in Tolkien's works (not a sin, mind you). In this particular episode the "rescue" (with an apparent twist at the end) by the Numenoreans looks a lot like Helm's Deep and Ride of the Rohirrim. Again, not a sin, but predictable. I wish they had taken more time to follow the events rather than grab anecdotes and fit them into a made up narrative of the 2nd age.

I "think" it's harder for people who truly love the world Tolkien created to get into this show because the constant deviations from the storyline are rather distracting; at least they are to me.

 

[Persona]

6 was a much more entertaining episode, but this is a complete reimagining of the 2nd age with some names, places, and lines thrown in. There was no "Feanorian" side to Galadriel in the 1st or any other age. Her motivation for going to, and staying in, ME was never, ever about revenge, in fact, adding the revenge factor to her character detracts from her greatness. Her motivation was purely to have a land of her own to order. She completely rejected/disliked everything about Feanor and fought "only" at need; even in the 1st age. She spent virtually all of the 1st age in Doriath under the tutelage of Queen Melian and, from her, learned much and increased in wisdom and power.

Internal and external consistency are 2 different things. The show, so far at least, has the former, but not the latter. In fact, at this point and going forward, there can only be a superficial comparison to the writings. The set up was just too different to allow for that and that choice was made long ago. It doesn't mean it can't be an entertaining show. We just shouldn't compare it to the writings.

Tolkien himself wrote that Galadriel had a Feanorian side.

It gets compared to the writings because it is using the writings. In different order and chronology and context and with all kinds of things added, but it is using Tolkien's writing all over the place.

 

[InCali]

Tolkien himself wrote that Galadriel had a Feanorian side.

It gets compared to the writings because it is using the writings. In different order and chronology and context and with all kinds of things added, but it is using Tolkien's writing all over the place.

OK. If you say so. Do you have a cite? I don't remember that. I do know that she rejected him, never trusted him, did NOT go to ME for revenge, fought only at need, and was imbued with wisdom. She was, in the writings, the exact antithesis of Feanor and his equal.

It is using bits of Tolkien's writings and scattering them without in any way following the narrative and events of the 2nd age. This has made it virtually impossible to make this a show that is really about his writings.

I fail to see why there's even a discussion about whether this follows anything close to the narrative of the 2nd age. There are "some" things and people taken from the books and put together in a way that is completely different from the writings.

 

[Persona]

OK. If you say so. Do you have a cite? I don't remember that. I do know that she rejected him, never trusted him, did NOT go to ME for revenge, fought only at need, and was imbued with wisdom. She was, in the writings, the exact antithesis of Feanor and his equal.

It is using bits of Tolkien's writings and scattering them without in any way following the narrative and events of the 2nd age. This has made it virtually impossible to make this a show that is really about his writings.

I fail to see why there's even a discussion about whether this follows anything close to the narrative of the 2nd age. There are "some" things and people taken from the books and put together in a way that is completely different from the writings.

It's in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien writes about Galadriel and talks about her attributes that are similar to her kinsman Feanor, namely her pride and desire for power and a realm to rule, in contrast to her wiser and kinder side similar to the rest of her house (Fingolfin).

There is a good breakdown by a redditor that goes more into all the textual connections between Feanor and Galadriel:

 

[henzINNIT]

I'm genuinely curious why a lot of people are enjoying that show more than this. It's good, dont me wrong, but people are acting like it's on the level of GOT in it's prime when it's not. Both ROP and HOTD are very solid, in my mind. This show is scratching that fantasy itch a little more.

I can't weigh in on the comparisons with HotD. I watched the first season of Game of Thrones and thought it was well made but just not for me. Too grim, too miserable. I like the aspirational fantasy of Tolkien's world. The 't-ts and dragons' approach has no appeal to me.

 

[InCali]

It's in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien writes about Galadriel and talks about her attributes that are similar to her kinsman Feanor, namely her pride and desire for power and a realm to rule, in contrast to her wiser and kinder side similar to the rest of her house (Fingolfin).

There is a good breakdown by a redditor that goes more into all the textual connections between Feanor and Galadriel:

Ah....I see. Yes, they had some similar characteristics as you mentioned. It seems somewhat like saying Gandalf had a Saruman side. He did and they shared some common characteristics, but were very, very different in terms of their personalities and devices. The same with Galadriel and Feanor.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I can't weigh in on the comparisons with HotD. I watched the first season of Game of Thrones and thought it was well made but just not for me. Too grim, too miserable. I like the aspirational fantasy of Tolkien's world. The 't-ts and dragons' approach has no appeal to me.

I loved GOT at it's heights, but I always preferred more traditional fantasy either way. And I'm loving HOTD for the most part, and I know that some people have listed reasons why they think it's caught on more than ROP. My personal opinion? I think a lot of people just don't like super slow burn shows. Despite what some say, I don't consider HOTD that much of a slow burn. something important happens pretty much every episode, plus it has the established GOT world behind it. ROP has 5 seasons planned, and they're carefully taking their time with it, and there's also a big separation between the show and the Jackson movies considering they're so far apart in the timeline if you consider them canon. I haven't read the Tolkien books so I'm just going by my observations as a film and television fan, but I feel ROP has had a lot stacked against it before it even aired. Changes from the books, with a lot they can't do, and also you factor in the racist backlash as well.

 

[InCali]

I loved GOT at it's heights, but I always preferred more traditional fantasy either way. And I'm loving HOTD for the most part, and I know that some people have listed reasons why they think it's caught on more than ROP. My personal opinion? I think a lot of people just don't like super slow burn shows. Despite what some say, I don't consider HOTD that much of a slow burn. something important happens pretty much every episode, plus it has the established GOT world behind it. ROP has 5 seasons planned, and they're carefully taking their time with it, and there's also a big separation between the show and the Jackson movies considering they're so far apart in the timeline if you consider them canon. I haven't read the Tolkien books so I'm just going by my observations as a film and television fan, but I feel ROP has had a lot stacked against it before it even aired. Changes from the books, with a lot they can't do, and also you factor in the racist backlash as well.

The whole race "problem" some people are having is, IMO, just stupid. The bigger issue to me, in terms of the criticism, is that the level of deviation from the writings is pretty extreme. With the kind fo money they had at their disposal, I would have preferred they took a longer term approach that followed the narrative more closely. It would have made it a trickier, but potentially more rewarding, project. I also think most of the characters are rather flat. That could change with future development. I think there's also more of an emphasis on the "spectacular" without providing a background for it. To me, that rather lessens the impact, but it still can be entertaining.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The whole race "problem" some people are having is, IMO, just stupid. The bigger issue to me, in terms of the criticism, is that the level of deviation from the writings is pretty extreme. With the kind fo money they had at their disposal, I would have preferred they took a longer term approach that followed the narrative more closely. It would have made it a trickier, but potentially more rewarding, project. I also think most of the characters are rather flat. That could change with future development. I think there's also more of an emphasis on the "spectacular" without providing a background for it. To me, that rather lessens the impact, but it still can be entertaining.

That's fair. I think that's where the criticisms from the book fans come in, and that can't really be all that argued against because at that point it's about whether you can still enjoy the show or not knowing those things already.

 

[InCali]

That's fair. I think that's where the criticisms from the book fans come in, and that can't really be all that argued against because at that point it's about whether you can still enjoy the show or not knowing those things already.

As I've said, I can still enjoy a show like this, but do find the deviations somewhat distracting and having a few familiar names, places, and events tends to exacerbate that. In truth, I'd probably enjoy it more if the names, etc. were all completely made up.

 

[Gothamsknight]

As I've said, I can still enjoy a show like this, but do find the deviations somewhat distracting and having a few familiar names, places, and events tends to exacerbate that. In truth, I'd probably enjoy it more if the names, etc. were all completely made up.

That makes me wonder though, was this show particularly aimed at book readers or people who have only seen the Jackson movies?

 

[InCali]

That makes me wonder though, was this show particularly aimed at book readers or people who have only seen the Jackson movies?

Ya got me. I'm easily in the upper 5% of the people who know the works and understand the details of Tolkien's writings and it sure as hell wasn't aimed at me. The Jackson movies could flow from this because they don't really provide any historical background, so I'm guessing the latter.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I loved GOT at it's heights, but I always preferred more traditional fantasy either way. And I'm loving HOTD for the most part, and I know that some people have listed reasons why they think it's caught on more than ROP. My personal opinion? I think a lot of people just don't like super slow burn shows. Despite what some say, I don't consider HOTD that much of a slow burn. something important happens pretty much every episode, plus it has the established GOT world behind it. ROP has 5 seasons planned, and they're carefully taking their time with it, and there's also a big separation between the show and the Jackson movies considering they're so far apart in the timeline if you consider them canon. I haven't read the Tolkien books so I'm just going by my observations as a film and television fan, but I feel ROP has had a lot stacked against it before it even aired. Changes from the books, with a lot they can't do, and also you factor in the racist backlash as well.

I think it can certainly be true that people in general aren't as fond of slow burn stories, but I certainly am and I don't have a problem with the pace of the story but with the content of it. I do think that HotD is a slow burn as well but that there is a difference in writing of mini arcs, where you look at small payoffs within an episode, or even within a single scene. I think that may make it feel a bit faster, even though there's not necessarily any more big things happening.

I also don't think that slow burn would turn any Tolkien fans away since he did not write very fast paced stories (beyond The Hobbit, as that one is a very easy read), but of course for that particular group you instead have the issue of this being quite different from what Tolkien wrote, for both forced and chosen reasons.

You're right in that the racist part was certainly something it had against it, but it's unclear to me how present that is outside the whining channels on Youtube and so on. Hopefully not that much. The only thing that's remotely negative that I could say is that when you deliberately change character skin color for the sake of it you're making skin color something important, and my opinion is that it shouldn't be. We're all just people and skin color doesn't make us different in any important way.