Apocalypse The Techno-Organic Virus

[Super Jim]

So someone else posted a thread about the Legacy Virus, kind of indicating that it should be used within the upcoming Aocalypse movie. Personally I disagree, though it did get me thinking about how the Techno-Organic Virus would be an interesting plot point.

So first, lets recap what we know, per canon, about the Techno-Organic Virus for those who may not know, or for whom it's been a while...

The Techno-Organic Virus turns living material into technology. The converted lifeform continues to live and function, but becomes driven by the desire to spread the virus to other life forms. There is no known antidote, although certain powers can hold it in check. The Techno-Organic Virus also has the ability to re-animate dead life.

The exact origin of the virus is unclear, though there are some characters that are fully intertined with the virus, including Apocalypse and Cable.



Apocalypse first became aware of the virus when a young time-travelor (Natham Summers), calling himself the Traveler, went back in time.

Nathan and Apocalypse battled and Ozymandias, Apocalypse's servant, got ahold of some of Nathan's blood.

He took Apocalypse's body to a "Celestial Ship" that Apocalypse had come across, but he was unable to understand or communicate with it. Ozymandius mixed Nathan's blood with the Techno-Organic Virus and used it to heal Apocalypse in a chamber of the ship by infecting him with the virus. This allowed Apocalypse to understand the ship.



Many years later Apocalypse infected Nathan Christopher Charles Summers as an infant, with the virus, forcing his parents

to transport him to the future, where he grew up to be Cable.

Apocalypse also used the virus to turn Warren Worthington III, the X-Man Angel, who had been beaten by the Mauraders during the Mutant Massacre (they had been sent there by Mr. Sinister

who used the future X-Man Gambit to lead the Marauders there) to the point that his wings needed amputation, into his Horseman Death, named Archangel.



I think it's also important to note that the Phalanx share many similarities with those who have contracted the virus. I only note this as it could end up being a story point in any X-Men movie that might include the Techno-Organic Virus.

Also, there have been numerous others who have tried to use the virus against the X-Men or mankind, including Bastion, Stryfe (clone of Cable's) and Selene.


So, the reason I provided all of this background is to show just how integral the T-O Virus is to Apocalypse and how integral the T-O Virus is to so many other stories, including, and especially, Cable.

We know that Cable will be coming to the big screen at some point, so it might make a lot of sense to introduce the T-O Virus sooner than later, whether or not Nathan is brought itno things now or later.

So first, let me say that I can't see them bringing Cable into this movie in any significant way. My reasoning for this is due to how much they will need to focus on characters like Professor X, Magneto, Mystique, Beast, and the kids. So I'm not expecting to see a baby Nathan being infected at this point.

But, the T-O Virus could be used very well in this movie as either a major plot point (that leads to future movies, such as one with Cable) or as a means by which Apocalypse "survives" in the end.

So, at this point, let me stop and simply ask, could you see the T-O Virus being used in this Apocalypse movie, and if so, how? Do you think it could possibly be a major part of the story, or would it just be something that is used as a means to set up future movies? Would we see it in the main story, or would it be a post credits type thing?

As far as other speculation of mine, I'll add that later once this discussion gets going, but let me say that a Cable origin story could easily include two of the beloved OT cast, James Marsden and Famke Jaansen...

 

[xrs13]

I actually think that the legacy virus would be better than this, it could play into AIDS and would be fitting with the real world stories that they seem to be incorporating with these films. I think having it that it is seen as a disease that effects mutants would be really hard hitting because it shows thats how AIDS was seen, that a group of misfits was hit by it.

 

[Sithborg]

It is somewhat important to Cable, though I suspect his origins will be simplified. (Damn Summers family tree)

It is no where near important to Apocalypse.

 

[Super Jim]

^ I agree that the T-O Virus isn't necessary for Apocalypse, unless they want to change his appearance, but even then they could change it to some other reason (alien techmology or something).

But you're right, for Cable the T-O Virus is critical, which is part of why I started this thread. We all know that they are looking to go forward with a movie that includes Cable in the not so distant future. So in that regard wouldn't it make sense to include the T-O Virus now to set it up for later?

At the same time, one thing I can see that the fanboys would absolutely love is a Cable origin story that is set in the OT using Jean Grey and Scott Summers (Famke and James). It would bring back some of the OT cast, which some people are begging for. It could be the whole Askani'son storyline.

The drawback is this...

If they kill off Apocalypse in this film then he wouldn't be usable in an OT timeline origin movie (that would include future and past elements). With him being so critical to Cable's origin it makes me think that at the emd of Apocalypse he will be defeated, but not gone for good.

One big question that plays into all of this is whether or not Mr. Sinister will make it into this one???

 

[Weather Witch]

I have the feeling that they may go a more ancient/mystical route with Apocalypse (first mutant and everything) rather than technological.

 

[Super Jim]

^ So you're thiking he's going to be just a powerful mutant and not somehow enhanced through alien technology?

I guess I could see that, but it takes away a couple of things.

It takes away the set up for Cable, as explained above. We know they are heading towards Cable at some point, but they could easily make it someone else who created the T-O Virus. Someone like Sinister, I guess. Or they could just make Cable a Cyborg, but that would take a lot away from his origin story, IMO.

Next, it takes away a main way to defeat Apocalypse. See, if it's just him having a crazy power then they have to overcome it through teamwork, or what have you. Yes, that is a very standard, and at times boring storyline. But, if he's just a powerful mutant (first or otherwise) who is augmented through alien technology, then if the team finds a way to remove or diminish the technology they bring the villain down to an acceptible level where he can be defeated.

Both make sense in different ways. I just really like the idea of Apocalypse regenerating through technology, making him so long lived, which is very much per canon. Sure they could make it where he has been alive since ancient Egypt, but he doesn't seem like the type to hide, so why wouldn't he have been trying to rule all along. Apocalypse is a major force, and him awakening in this timeline, when he didn't in the original, makes a lot of sense. And that would mean technology. Not necessarily the T-O Virus, but at least something...

 

[Sithborg]

It makes the most sense for the technology to be developed by Apocalypse himself. The whole Celestial stuff kind of takes away from his story, imo.

And we don't know his backstory yet. Apocalypse didn't go from ancient Egypt to the 80s. There were various times he woke up to check out the world. I imagine they may do the same here.

 

[Super Jim]

^ I'm all for them showing him being "awake" throughout time, especially if it's used to introduce Sinister in this movie.

Sinister and Apocalypse are so intwined in the comics that I hope they put that into this story in order to set up Sinister for a future movie.

I also agree that the "celestial" technology isn't necessary, but it would be pretty cool to see Apocalypse in ancient Egypt and him finding an alien ship, which he then uses his powers (telekenetics in this case - per the after credits scene) to hide. Ultimately it's shown that the Great Pyramids of Giza were created by Apocalypse and is where he slumbers (using that alien technology) and is where he is awoken from.

Also, if Sinister is introduced, and knowing Gambit's and Sinister's relationship in the comics, how cool would it be if we learn (after credits scene) that Gambit was sent to Apocalypse's "lair" in order to steal something (him being a master thief and all), which turns out to be the T-O Virus, thus setting up a future movie with Cable and kind of following canon with Gambit "working for" Sinister...

 

[kasjan]

If Moira is scientist in this movie, maybe that's why she's so important, and together with Hank will create some kind of virus, to beat Apocalypse.

 

[psylockolussus]

Who knows if she is now working for CDC.

 

[Super Jim]

Another character somewhat ruined by this movieverse...

Moira was, during Last Stand, some 30-something year old Scottish Doctor. That was exactly what she was supposed to be, per canon.

Then in First Class Moira was transformed into a late-20's or 30-something year old American CIA operative and we were all expected to convienently forget what we saw in Last Stand (and more often than not, I wish I could).

But First Class took place in 1963 and now we're going to be 20 years into the future. Are they really going to bring back Rose as a 50-something year old Moira? Is she all of a sudden going to have some Scottish accent, be living on Muir Island, is now a Doctor, and is raising a foster kid who is related to Jacob from Twilight?

And again, it's really too bad that they did what they did. They could have had her per canon and that could have led to some pretty cool things, like Excalibur, Rhane and maybe even Legion.

With Rose confirmed it really causes a lot of questions about how she might be used.

I could see her and Charles having been "together" over the past ten years, which could lead to a son...

I could see her still being in the CIA and her being someone that Charles can goto for information (but with his powers, would he really need to "go to" anybody for information?

It's hard for me to see this, but maybe she's been at the mansion working with Chuck and Hank these past few years...

It's just very hard for me to see her switching professions and moving away from CIA operative to scientist...

But you guys are all right... she is hot!



Just thought of this...

Based on canon, and what we know of Chuck's and Moira's relationship, there could be a trend for this movie...

1. We know that Quicksilver is Erik's kid, right? And we know he'll be in the movie and more than likely, the parentage will be explored.

2. We know that (per canon) Kurt is Raven's kid, right? Many are speculating (and hoping) that Nightcrawler will be in the movie, and if so it just makes sense that that parentage will be explored. It seems that Kurt was conceived between Raven and Azazel (they absolutely better not change this!!!) after Erik left (and was imprisoned). You know that Raven would have some pretty hard feelings for Erik leaving and how that led to her and Azazel being together, whether she went to Azazel for comfort, he forced himself on her, or he tricked her by pretending to be Erik. Would make sense that this would be part of the resolution between Raven and Erik.

3. We know that (per Ultimate canon) David is Charles and Moira's kid, right? It makes sense that IF (and that's a very big if) they were together it would have happened between the events of First Class and Apocalypse, and more than likely between the events of DoFP and Apocalypse, assuming that their "friendship" was reestablished to the point that she would be in this 1983 set movie.

So, what if part of everyone's resolution (excluding Hank's - I hope - cause if they make Kurt his kid I'm flipping out!!!) is the stories surrounding their parentage. So what if Kurt was born (to Raven) and abandoned with Margali? What if Quicksilver is indeed Magneto's son and this is explored. And what if Moira was, some years back, with Chuck and without his knowledge David was born (David being the mutant Proteus - or they could turn Legion into their son)?

It's an interesting concept which might explain the need to have Moira (Rose) in this movie...

 

[Duran Man]

First Class took place in 1962 with the Cuban Missile Crisis as a backdrop (I'm not sure you keep saying 1963). I don't see a Proteus/Legion storyline coming into play in this movie. If parenthood is a theme in this movie, then with regards to Charles the focus should be his father-like role to his students.

 

[Super Jim]

^ You're right, 1962. But the point is Moira's age, whether off by one year of not, it doesn't really matter...

Not saying that this story will be focused on Proteus or Legion, just the possibility that Moira and Charles had a kid together, which could come into play in the future...

Although I see what you're saying about Charles' role as a mentor, or possibly even a father figure to Scott, Jean and Ororo, it's the dichotomy that I'm refering to, that of the parentage situations of Erik = Quicksilver and possibly/hopefully Raven = Nightcrawler.

The three main characters that need resolution are Charles, Erik and Raven. I know, Hank is, for some odd reason, in there as well, but the point is that if they are going to get into all of this parentage type stuff for Erik and Raven (which is total speculation - but it does make sense) then it could be assumed that that is what they will also do for Charles, which would give a viable reason for Moira to be in this movie. Otherwise, why have her in this already bloated story???

 

[JEM]

Like Emma, they can just say Moira (X3) was her daughter if they want .
In X files, Scully was FBI agent and medical doctor so they can do the same with Moira. But Singer/Kinberg maybe don't care about that, we will see.
I remember Bryan said he loved Proteus .

January 29, 2001 — The chances of Bryan Singer returning to direct the "X-Men" sequel are "looking good," a Marvel representative told the Comics Continuum. There originally were plans for other characters to appear in "X-Men". "Gambit and Beast are two characters I miss terribly," Singer said. "Beast was in the script for a while, but then when you've got Mystique with nine hours of makeup and these challenges, you have to choose your battles. "But there are many characters we'd like to have, from Nightcrawler to Proteus to Gambit. Some interesting characters. Some which might translate well to film, and some which might not as easily and some that won't translate until technology advances another 20 years."

Thanks Retroman t:

Although I see what you're saying about Charles' role as a mentor, or possibly even a father figure to Scott, Jean and Ororo, it's the dichotomy that I'm refering to, that of the parentage situations of Erik = Quicksilver and possibly/hopefully Raven = Nightcrawler.

I think "parentage type stuff " is a great way to conclude the trilogy. Singer is dad so he has connection with that .

 

[EnDz0n3]

I don't think Azazel should "absolutely" have to be Nightcrawler's father. In fact, I would be opposed to it. What for? They don't need to connect Kurt to this one-off, one-dimensional character, who's not even alive in 1983 anymore.

In fiction it's more effective to show, don't tell. Since Azazel won't be around then, they would have to do flashbacks, which they really shouldn't rely on too much.

 

[Duran Man]

Since we know Azazel and Mystique were teammates for a period of time, it would be obvious who Nightcrawler's father is just by looking at him, so they don't need to be expository about it, they could just allude to it. I'd much prefer this over something stupid like making him the son of Beast or Magneto.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I suppose alluding to *that* guy (that is, they don't have to name him) being the dad of Nightcrawler would be ok. I don't think they have to dwell/spend a lot of precious screentime on it.

Or as some posters on here were proposing before DOFP came out, to have Mystique distance herself from Magneto because of what he's supposedly done to Azazel. Again it's one of those things where the general audiences would be left wondering who we're talking about and why we're spending time on this side character from FC. Him being dead kills (pun intended) that storyline I think.

 

[Super Jim]

^ But my point is why that happened.

See, we all saw Raven choose to go with Erik. We also saw a bit of flirtation and desire between Raven and Erik that the fair conclusion is developed into something more once the two were together. Age was not a concern since Raven was actually much older than she looked.

Now from what we know Erik chose to leave to go save President Kennedy, a fellow mutant. This led to the whole bent bullet thing and Magneto being imprissoned for the next ten years.

So as long as they don't do anything stupid, like make Beast or Erik Kurt's father, then between 1962 and 1964 Raven and Azazel were together.

So again... why?

This question likely plays very well into this story and the resolution between Raven and Erik. She likely was in love with Erik and likely has bad feelings for the fact that he left her. She must have either turned to Azazel for comfort, or he either forced himself on her or tricked her by making himself look like Erik (I believe the canon story was something like that - but not Erik but Wagner).

Anyway, the product was Kurt...

If this is used then it makes a lot of sense that it will be discussed during their resolution, and yes, that likely means some use of flashbacks. It's not 100% needed, but it would help tell the story...

Now when you say "have Mystique distance herself from Magneto because of what he's supposedly done to Azazel", what are you talking about? From what we've been shown Azazel was killed in Project Wideawake...

But the point is that the story of what happened to Raven after Erik left very much plays into the feelings that she would have for Erik, and more than likely would need to come out during that storyline...

 

[kasjan]

Moira wasn't 30+ in TLS.
Cyclops, Jean and Storm were 40.
Xavier (74) wouldn't romance with so young woman.

 

[Super Jim]

^ Your whole point is a bit moot.

You're talking about Moira in Last Stand. For reference, Olivia Williams was born in 1968, so in Last Stand, which was filmed in 2005, she was 37 years old. I wrote that in Last Stand Moira was "some 30-something year old Scottish Doctor", which seems to be correct. Care to back up your statement that "Moira wasn't 30+ in TLS"??????

But again, the point is moot. They effectively rebooted Moira, unless the one in Last Stand was the 1962 Moira's daughter...

Anyway, the point in that the Charles Xavier in 1962 was 30 years old, having been born in 1932. For reference, Raven was born two years later, making her 28 in that movie...

Rose Byrne, who played that version of Moira, and who is, per reports, coming back for Apocalypse, was born in 1979 making her 31 years old during the filming of First Class.

Sure seems that both First Class Professor X and First Class Moira are right around 30 years old, and as we've already been shown they had some sort of "connection" that could have easily led to something more.

Maybe it was just one night before he became crippled, which (for some reason I can't understand... sarcasm) they didn't show, or it happened sometime between 1962 and 1983.

So your whole thing about the age of Cyclops, Jean and Storm being 40 and Xavier being 74 has nothing to do with nothing. We're talking about the First Class versions of the characters, which means 30 year olds in 1962, and perfectly fitted to be together in that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kasjan]

Didn't know that, sorry, but Olivia looks older than her real age. Thought she's about 50 in TLS. She's 46 now and looks older than my mother (56).

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I think Williams looked about 40-41 back then. People with angular or hawkish features do have a tendency to look a bit older than they actually are, though. She reminds me of Elizabeth Hurley.